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Thread: Variable Returns

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    Variable Returns

    I was curious, has anyone tried these new variable returns from ecoblu?

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    Re: Variable Returns

    More info, link????

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    Re: Variable Returns

    www.ecobluweb.com is their link

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    Re: Variable Returns

    Looks interesting. I'm actually in the market to replace my returns. Hopefully some of the engineers/experts will watch the video and chime in about the claims being made.
    14.5K gal Plaster IGP, Intelliflo VS, EasyTouch 8, SWG, IntellipH, Clear and Clean 420 Cartridge Filter, Attached Spa, H400IDL2 NG Heater

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    Re: Variable Returns

    Yes, I tried them and I think they work well. I meant to write a complete review with some test data but work got in the way. Maybe I can get to it this weekend.
    Free-form concrete walls with vinyl liner, 18,000 gallon capacity, Jandy 1.5HP e-Pump, Jandy DEV48 DE filter (using cellulose media), Jandy AE2500 heat pump, Jandy Aqualink Power Center with 14-blade cell kit and Jandy PDA-P8 wireless control system.

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    Re: Variable Returns

    It would work similar to an adjustable hose nozzle. Basically you are increasing the velocity of the water since you are decreasing the area (opening) at lower speeds.

    I kind of wish I had thought of this, now off to check out prices....
    21,000 gallon pool w/spa, Pebble Sheen, Hayward EcoStar variable speed filter pump, Hayward DE6020 Filter, Hayward 400FDN Heater, Stenner pump with 15 gallon tank, Clear O3 ozone system, Hayward Goldline PS-8 controller, Hayward 6060 cleaner pump, Polaris 280 cleaner, Hayward EcoStar variable speed water feature pump.

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    Re: Variable Returns

    Looking at the video they look promising, but at almost $40.00 bucks a pop retail I would hope they work well. Wholesale your looking at around the $20 to $24 mark depending on if you want white ones or one of their various color options.

    Since the flexible part is made of silicone I wonder what the lifespan of these are.
    Swimming Pool & Spa Maintenance, Service and Installation Technician
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    Re: Variable Returns

    I thought I found them earlier for $24-$26 retail. Still a little pricey though. My understanding is that they automatically open more or less depending on the pump setting. Would this really make anything more efficient? Or would the restriction actually make the system less efficient.

    I'm interested because my returns seem to be the puniest, cheapest returns available. They're a pain in the rear to adjust. They're recessed as well.

    When I had my new equipment installed, the installer said I could replace them with better ones, but to get the same size. He said those returns were sized for the system taking into account head loss, etc.
    14.5K gal Plaster IGP, Intelliflo VS, EasyTouch 8, SWG, IntellipH, Clear and Clean 420 Cartridge Filter, Attached Spa, H400IDL2 NG Heater

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    Re: Variable Returns

    Quote Originally Posted by phipsi1237
    I thought I found them earlier for $24-$26 retail. Still a little pricey though. My understanding is that they automatically open more or less depending on the pump setting. Would this really make anything more efficient? Or would the restriction actually make the system less efficient.

    I'm interested because my returns seem to be the puniest, cheapest returns available. They're a pain in the rear to adjust. They're recessed as well.

    When I had my new equipment installed, the installer said I could replace them with better ones, but to get the same size. He said those returns were sized for the system taking into account head loss, etc.
    Maybe it's list price that is $38.00.

    Basically if you watch the demo video the concept is that when you are running your pump at a slower speed they act similar to when you place your thump over the end of your water hose to increase the pressure for sweeping and such. Doing this moves more water then traditional returns with one size hole.

    I don't think they are "efficient" as in "energy" efficient they make your return lines more "work efficient" by moving more water when the pump slows down.
    Swimming Pool & Spa Maintenance, Service and Installation Technician
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    Re: Variable Returns

    These are interesting. I see the same prices phipsi1237 listed, although that was only for white, I did not see other color options (I would want grey).

    These do not move more water as Mark stated, the smaller orifice will just increase the velocity of the water. In fact, if there is any increase in head loss (which there must be ... although very small), that would actually reduce the flow rate. The tighter column of water with increased velocity will penetrate further into the pool and thus should help circulation.
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    Re: Variable Returns

    Exactly. That's the point I was making as well. Since you are changing the area of the opening this increases the velocity of the water coming out since the pressure and rate from a piping perspective remain basically unchanged.

    The only potential concern is as mark stated is the longevity of the silicone part.

    As for colors I would want black and even better of I could buy just the inside part. It appears my existing threaded fitting and cap would work.

    Lastly this only makes since for people who use their pump at different speeds. If someone always used their pump at the lowest setting it's probally just cheaper for them to get a smaller return.
    21,000 gallon pool w/spa, Pebble Sheen, Hayward EcoStar variable speed filter pump, Hayward DE6020 Filter, Hayward 400FDN Heater, Stenner pump with 15 gallon tank, Clear O3 ozone system, Hayward Goldline PS-8 controller, Hayward 6060 cleaner pump, Polaris 280 cleaner, Hayward EcoStar variable speed water feature pump.

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    Re: Variable Returns

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    These are interesting. I see the same prices phipsi1237 listed, although that was only for white, I did not see other color options (I would want grey).

    These do not move more water as Mark stated, the smaller orifice will just increase the velocity of the water. In fact, if there is any increase in head loss (which there must be ... although very small), that would actually reduce the flow rate. The tighter column of water with increased velocity will penetrate further into the pool and thus should help circulation.
    The actual portion of the return that adjusts is made out of flexible silicone so I believe that they put the bare minimum amount of pressure needed to just increase the pressure as if were under normal pressure and a standard return.

    In other words I don't believe that they are totally blocking off like 50% of the standard size hole, so I don't believe they affect the actual pressure at the pump too much.

    The "internal" portion is the main feature of the product [s:1byui23k]as far as i can see they don't offer it separate.[/s:1byui23k] I found the iBALL ONLY and listed it below.

    They come in Black, Light Gray, Dark Gray, Tan and White and here's the description and part numbers for anyone interested. List Prices are $33.90 for iBALL ONLY and $38.99 for all complete units listed. 1 Year Warranty

    The funny thing is it's cheaper for me to buy the White Threaded Model [Edit]from my wholesale House[Edit] then it is to purchase the insert only, so keep that in mind when shopping I'm assuming the inserts are all the same since they only list one part number for the IBALL ONLY. The [Edit]Wholesale House prices are[Edit] iBALL ONLY is $19.00, Complete units are $22.00, but the White Threaded Complete is only $17.00 so those that already have colored returns I'm guessing you may just want to buy the entire unit and discard what you don't need and save yourself around $5.00 bucks a pop. [Edit]There's usually nothing you can't buy on the net that's not cheaper than the Wholesale Houses prices just for reference[Edit].


    Description
    The Most Efficient Return for Variable & Two Speed Pumps The i-Ball Velocity automatically self-adjusts its orifice size based on changing flow rates to optimize efficiency and performance of all Multi-Speed Pumps. •Maximize surface agitation and circulation at low speed settings •Minimize back pressure issues at high speed settings •Enhance chemical performance •prolonging life expectancy of your pump and your other pool components •Through improvement of performance, the iBall Velocity provides incentive to consistently run your pump at lower Speeds allowing you to meet and or EXCEED those advertised pump cost-savings… Convenience...Through improved performance, the iBall Velocity provides incentive to run any multi-speed pump consistently at lower speeds! TRUE “one size fits all” eliminates buying different return sizes. Reduces stress on pump and other pool components, prolonging life expectency. Soft silicon design is safe for littler fingers. EASY INSTALLATION!

    RETURN FITTING IBALL ONLY
    Manufacturer Part #: ICLNH001
    List Price: $33.90


    [attachment=1:1byui23k]THREADED.jpg[/attachment:1byui23k]
    THREAD 1.5" VARIABLE RETURN IBALL BLACK MALE
    Manufacturer Part #: IBLMT151

    THREAD 1.5" VARIABLE RETURN IBALL WHITE MALE
    Manufacturer Part #: IWHMT151

    THREAD 1.5" VARIABLE RETURN IBALL DARK GRAY MALE
    Manufacturer Part #: IDGMT151

    THREAD 1.5" RETURN FITTING IBALL TAN MALE
    Manufacturer Part #: ITNMT151

    THREAD 1.5" RETURN FITTING IBALL LIGHT GRAY MALE
    Manufacturer Part #: ILGMT151
    [attachment=0:1byui23k]FLUSH.jpg[/attachment:1byui23k]
    FLUSH 1.5" OD RETURN FITTING IBALL TAN SLIP
    Manufacturer Part #: ITNSF151

    FLUSH 1.5" OD RETURN FITTING IBALL BLACK SLIP
    Manufacturer Part #: IBLSF151

    FLUSH 1.5" OD RETURN FITTING IBALL LIGHT GRAY SLIP
    Manufacturer Part #: ILGSF151

    FLUSH 1.5" OD RETURN FITTING IBALL DARK GRAY SLIP
    Manufacturer Part #: IDGSF151

    FLUSH 1.5" OD RETURN FITTING IBALL WHITE SLIP
    Manufacturer Part #: IWHSF151
    [attachment=2:1byui23k]SLIP.jpg[/attachment:1byui23k]
    SLIP 1.5" OD RETURN FITTING IBALL LIGHT GRAY
    Manufacturer Part #: ILGSL151

    SLIP 1.5" OD RETURN FITTING IBALL DARK GRAY
    Manufacturer Part #: IDGSL151

    SLIP 1.5" OD VARIABLE RETURN IBALL BLACK
    Manufacturer Part #: IBLSL151


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    Re: Variable Returns

    They do indeed just sell the inner eyeball and the complete return msrp is said to be 25 bucks. So looks like some price gouging going on by some retailers.

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    Re: Variable Returns

    Quote Originally Posted by ctxbound
    They do indeed just sell the inner eyeball and the complete return msrp is said to be 25 bucks. So looks like some price gouging going on by some retailers.
    have you seen the inner ball for sale?

    I have only seen complete kits and white only online.

    In goggling the part numbers for the black units I am only seeing links for distributors to buy not consumers.
    21,000 gallon pool w/spa, Pebble Sheen, Hayward EcoStar variable speed filter pump, Hayward DE6020 Filter, Hayward 400FDN Heater, Stenner pump with 15 gallon tank, Clear O3 ozone system, Hayward Goldline PS-8 controller, Hayward 6060 cleaner pump, Polaris 280 cleaner, Hayward EcoStar variable speed water feature pump.

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    Re: Variable Returns

    All my outlets are the flush setup I think ... so all I would actually need is the internals ... since there would be no way to make use of the outer part.

    I also wonder if I would just screw the threaded design into my flush outlets ... I am not sure how the threads compare ... although I prefer the flush look.

    @ ctxbound ... where have you seen the parts listed separately? I imagine I should be able to reuse my retaining rings, so I would just need the balls.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Variable Returns

    Quote Originally Posted by Cajun
    Quote Originally Posted by ctxbound
    They do indeed just sell the inner eyeball and the complete return msrp is said to be 25 bucks. So looks like some price gouging going on by some retailers.
    have you seen the inner ball for sale?

    I have only seen complete kits and white only online.

    In goggling the part numbers for the black units I am only seeing links for distributors to buy not consumers.
    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    All my outlets are the flush setup I think ... so all I would actually need is the internals ... since there would be no way to make use of the outer part.

    I also wonder if I would just screw the threaded design into my flush outlets ... I am not sure how the threads compare ... although I prefer the flush look.

    @ ctxbound ... where have you seen the parts listed separately? I imagine I should be able to reuse my retaining rings, so I would just need the balls.
    Jason and Cajun, I listed the part number for the iBALL Only however read what I said about the price on the threaded White Complete Unit. Just unscrew the ring and there's your iBALL Only part. Pop out your current ones and pop the new ones in.

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    Re: Variable Returns

    Ah ... sorry. Missed the very first part number and your comment about price ... or did you edit that in?

    Are those ($17 vs $22) your wholesale prices or prices you found somewhere on the net?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Variable Returns

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    Ah ... sorry. Missed the very first part number and your comment about price ... or did you edit that in?

    Are those ($17 vs $22) your wholesale prices or prices you found somewhere on the net?
    I edited that in but I also stated so in the message "The "internal" portion is the main feature of the product [s:1lj2xqi6]as far as i can see they don't offer it separate.[/s:1lj2xqi6] I found the iBALL ONLY and listed it below."

    I think I was adding while you where posting :P

    Those are wholesale I'll state that also but online usually there's nothing I can't find cheaper than what the wholesale house sells the item for.
    Swimming Pool & Spa Maintenance, Service and Installation Technician
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    Re: Variable Returns

    Found a great price on amazon

    http://www.amazon.com/Eco-Blu-iBall-Vel ... B006W2Y5FG

    Something tells me my order will never ship.
    21,000 gallon pool w/spa, Pebble Sheen, Hayward EcoStar variable speed filter pump, Hayward DE6020 Filter, Hayward 400FDN Heater, Stenner pump with 15 gallon tank, Clear O3 ozone system, Hayward Goldline PS-8 controller, Hayward 6060 cleaner pump, Polaris 280 cleaner, Hayward EcoStar variable speed water feature pump.

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    Re: Variable Returns

    I'm a pool tech and saw that my local distributor sells just the iBalls. I looked on the internet and "in the swim" has limited selection, but my guess is to call them and see what they have in stock. Chances are they can get just the inner eyeball or whatever color that you need for a complete unit. Or just call EcoBlu direct.....they should know who carries what or maybe they sell direct.

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