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Thread: Who's figures do I use?

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    Who's figures do I use?

    Hi
    I'm currently getting my pool balanced after refilling 2/3 of the water. I have a SWG. The pool render people recommend these levels to inhibit calcium buildup on the walls.

    TA 120 - 140
    PH 7.4
    CH 200
    FC 2-3
    CYA 30 - 40

    TFP recommendations for SWG are

    TA 60 - 80
    PH 7.5 - 7.8
    CH 250 - 350
    FC 3 - 5
    CYA 70 - 80

    Do you think the TFP levels ( which I would prefer to use ) would have any more effect on the calcium being drawn from the walls and floor than the other levels?

    My current levels are
    TA 140
    PH 7.4
    CH 250
    FC 3 ?
    CYA 40

    These are only approx cause I have trouble reading those test strips. I have ordered a TF 100 test kit .

    Thanks Brad
    Sorry if I haven't worded that very well.
    19,000 gallons
    Zodiac Tri Series SWG
    Hayward S310T Sand Filter
    Poolrite SQI 600 pump.
    IG Concrete, quartzon surface
    Built 1997

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Who's figures do I use?

    The key drivers are the pH and the CH.

    TA is just a buffer for pH ... if it is higher the pH will rise faster. The levels they recommend for TA are more appropriate for pucks (which are acidic and will hold the pH down).

    Having the low CH can actually be damaging to plaster finishes as well as it can pull the calcium out of the plaster.

    I would trust the values recommended here ... although if it impacts your warranty, then you need to take that into consideration.

    Kind of an advanced topic, but, If you learn the poolcalculator.com, at the bottom you can see the CSI ... too low and it will pull calcium out of the plaster, too high and it can result in scaling deposits.

    Be sure to post up when you get your test kit.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: Who's figures do I use?

    The Australian Standards are a little different than the US Standards so you will get different values. Here at TFP our recommended ranges work for most pools.

    We suggest the TA to be 60-80 range for SWG users because this range tends to lock in the pH for a longer period of time. With the TA in the 120-140 range, your pH will most likely constantly raise and you will have to add acid more often.

    We suggest to keep the pH in the 7.5-7.8 range due to the SWG also. If you have to manually add your chemicals then you must have a range and not just 7.4. You would have to add acid everyday or so to maintain your pH. SWG's tend to make the pH rise and by having the pH a little on the higher side you should use less acid overall to control the pH.

    Your CH is already at 250 and is fine. If you have hard water, you will want to keep a close eye on the CH as this along with the pH is a big factor in scaling. If it does get high, then you will have to run a lower pH to help with the CSI index.

    Follow the FC/CYA guide in Pool School, pool-school/chlorine_cya_chart_shock, and you will have a great looking pool all the time. Your manual suggest to keep the CYA in the 30-50 range due to the Australian Standard, but here in the US, our manuals say to keep the CYA in the 70-80 range. Your SWG will not have to work as much if your CYA is 80, and that will help to slow the rate of pH rising.

    Use the pool calculator, http://www.poolcalculator.com/, to figure how much of each chemical to use and to figure out the CSI of your pool. By running your CSI near 0 or slightly negative, you should not get any scaling.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
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    Re: Who's figures do I use?

    Stick with TFP. Pool stores suggestions are usually not correct in some form or another. Australian water is the same as US water and these guidelines have been developed to work.

    Blending pool store advice and TFP advice almost always leaves the pool owner in the befuddled middle.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Who's figures do I use?

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    Australian water is the same as US water
    But the sun must be different. I mean if the pool stores here think the sun in the mid-west is different from the sun in FL or AZ ... then it must be VERY different down-under. I mean the light waves are upside-down!!!!!
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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  6. Back To Top    #6

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    Re: Who's figures do I use?

    Thanks for all your advice. The pool is very cloudy ATM because of the fine particles that came off when I acid bathed it. I'm running the filter 24/7 to try to clear it up. When I get my new test kit I'll run all the tests and post on this site.

    Yes it is the other side of the world... the sun is the same but sometimes I wonder what stops the water falling out of the pool!!

    Brad
    19,000 gallons
    Zodiac Tri Series SWG
    Hayward S310T Sand Filter
    Poolrite SQI 600 pump.
    IG Concrete, quartzon surface
    Built 1997

  7. Back To Top    #7

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    Re: Who's figures do I use?

    Hi again,

    Finally got my TF-100 test kit and have the following readings.

    FC 2
    CC .5
    PH 7.8
    TA 170
    CH 240
    CYA 85

    So I have some adjusting to do. I will use The Pool Calculator
    Thanks
    Brad
    19,000 gallons
    Zodiac Tri Series SWG
    Hayward S310T Sand Filter
    Poolrite SQI 600 pump.
    IG Concrete, quartzon surface
    Built 1997

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    Re: Who's figures do I use?

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    Stick with TFP. Pool stores suggestions are usually not correct in some form or another. Australian water is the same as US water and these guidelines have been developed to work.
    No, the water there spins the other way when going down the drain, so it must be very different.
    chiefwej
    Tucson, AZ
    16x36 rectangular (19k) Pebble Tec play pool/spa, Pentair Intelliflo VS 011018, Super II 2hp (spa), Aqua Rite T-15 SWG, Pro Grid 60 DE, Hayward H400 & Heliocol Solar heating, A&A infloor system, fill water w/high CH and TA, 50 ppm borates,TF-100 test kit

  9. Back To Top    #9

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    Re: Who's figures do I use?

    I am getting closer to the balance I want

    FC 5
    CC 0
    TA 120
    CH 240
    PH 7.2 ( I'm aerating to get to 7.6 )
    CYA 70

    One question. If I leave these figures as they are (PH at 7.6) it give me a good CSI index (0.24) as per The Pool Calc. but in the recommended figures for SWG in pool school it says its important to keep the TA at 60-80. By doing this it makes the CSI at 0.5 - 0.6 roughly.

    Would I be oK eaving the TA at 120? as I have had real problems with calcium on the floor and walls and have just finished clenaing it off.

    Thanks
    19,000 gallons
    Zodiac Tri Series SWG
    Hayward S310T Sand Filter
    Poolrite SQI 600 pump.
    IG Concrete, quartzon surface
    Built 1997

  10. Back To Top    #10
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Who's figures do I use?

    Couple questions.

    Did you actually replace water to get you CYA to drop or was that just testing "error"?
    Did you mean to report that the CSI numbers were negative? Since a lower TA would lower the CSI (more negative).

    Leaving the TA high in conjunction with the SWG is going to make you pH rise rather quickly requiring acid addition often.
    I might think you would be happier lowering the TA closer to 80ppm, raising the CH up to around 350+ppm, and then keeping the pH 7.5-7.8
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  11. Back To Top    #11

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    Re: Who's figures do I use?

    Hi jblizzle

    Yes ,I have been backwashing a lot and refilling to get rid of the sediment in the water from when I acid bathed the pool. It is slowly clearing up.

    You were right ,the CSI numbers were supposed to be negative.

    Thanks. I'll keep workinh on lowering my TA

    Brad
    19,000 gallons
    Zodiac Tri Series SWG
    Hayward S310T Sand Filter
    Poolrite SQI 600 pump.
    IG Concrete, quartzon surface
    Built 1997

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