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Thread: Equipment selection advice sought...

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    bmoreswim's Avatar
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    Equipment selection advice sought...

    I am working on the equipment section of our specs to take to PBs for quotes. I have a few questions regarding equipment selection. Side note - One of the PBs only works with Hayward equipment, or so they say. If true, I have no real concern about using it versus Pentair or Jandy. Im looking for sizing thoughts/comments for pump, filter and SWG for the following setup:

    18 x 38 IG gunite rectangle, 3 to 8 1/2, approx. 27,000 gallons
    2 suction lines separately to 2 skimmers (80 total)
    2 suction to dual main drain (30 total)
    2 return looped return line to 4 returns (130 total)
    2 pressure side cleaner line (leaning towards a Polaris 360 no booster needed) (30 total)
    2 line to S.R. Smith TurboTwister slide (up to 35 gpm) reduced to 1 at slide (35)
    Automatic cover
    Oversized cartridge filter
    Maryland (approx. 4 month season no heater will likely plumb for a heat pump though)
    Electric cost $0.08/kwh
    Full sun on the pool, very clean regarding tree debris, etc., and autocover on most of the time

    I have tons of other details in mind but these are most that I can think that would affect the equipment specifications. Let me know if others would be helpful.

    My very modestly educated guess is that a 1 HP 2-speed pump would be appropriate. My thought being that I could turn the pool over in 12 hrs. at about 38 gpm which would be done at low speed. Then when the slide is on and/or the non-boosted Polaris is running, it would be at high speed. I suppose if the slide is running a lot, the 12 hr. filtration cycle could be decreased due to added return flow. Would a 500+SF cartridge filter for this setup allow me to only clean it once per season? The SWGs come in various sizes. Would I get the largest size, the 30 to 40K gallon one? Does it make any sense to go smaller due the cover being on often? Not looking to be cheap, just to right-size things.

    If you have specific Brand/Model recommendations on anything Id be glad to have them along with any more general sizing thoughts. If anyone has thoughts regarding pumping/filtration regarding having the cover on much of the time would be interesting too.

    Any and all comments are welcome. My goal is to provide a fairly detailed specification list/design to the PBs stopping short of trying to be a know it all. Im perfectly happy to listen to a PBs thoughts on equipment/techniques and am/will be comfortable enough with my knowledge from TFP to not be led astray.

    Thanks,
    Bmore
    18'x38' Rectangle (3'-8 1/2' deep w/ diving board) - 27K gal. w/ gray plaster
    Hayward equipment (cartridge filter, 2-speed pump, SWCG, automation) View Our Build
    Coverstar automatic pool cover | StoneMakers concrete retaining wall and decking
    Spring 2013 Build | Dolphin Active 20 robot cleaner | Support TFP!

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Equipment selection advice sought...

    My very modestly educated guess is that a 1 HP 2-speed pump would be appropriate. My thought being that I could turn the pool over in 12 hrs. at about 38 gpm which would be done at low speed.
    I think you could get away with a far smaller pump. A 2 speed is a good idea but a 3/4 HP full rated or 1 HP up rated would probably be more than enough. Both the Maxflo XL and the SuperPump come in a 1 HP up rated 2 speed. The TriStar is a good pump too but you can't get smaller than a 1 HP full rated two speed which would be plenty and easily give you the 12 hour turnover on low speed.

    Would a 500+SF cartridge filter for this setup allow me to only clean it once per season?
    Definitely and a smaller one might too. I have a 20k pool with a 425 sq-ft cartridge filter and get no PSI rise in a full year so I could probably get away with a 325 sq-ft filter. With a cover, I suspect you won't need a very big filter but given the size of the pool and the flow rates I wouldn't go smaller than 325 sq-ft.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Qwaxalot's Avatar
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    Re: Equipment selection advice sought...

    I absolutely agree with Mark's comments (although I wouldn't go less than 420 Sq. Ft.).
    You'll need a 40,000 gallon rated SWCG.
    You really don't need 2" lines to the slide or the pool cleaner.
    Reconsider the pool cleaner too, I find a Polaris 280 (needs a booster pump) will outperform a Polaris 360 or 380, and be more reliable in the long run.
    In the industry, CSP (Certified Service Professional) by the NSPI and it's successor the APSP. My company services over 600 pools every year. I think the practices regularly espoused on this forum (especially the BBB method) are outstanding; however my comments will be often oriented towards the goal of getting it done, and getting it done right now!

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    Re: Equipment selection advice sought...

    Thanks for the thoughts and details. On the pump, it looks like I was overestimating my HP needs significantly. One question that I had when looking at the pump curves was why do they only tend to show the curve only for the low setting for a two speed pump? Wouldn't people also be interested in the high speed curve? The slide adds head primarily because of the height of 8' and the low settings are usually very low head. Though I'll be honest, I haven't calculated my head with the proposed pipes (or the slightly smaller pipes for the cleaner or slide for that matter). Just seems to be a missing piece of information in their documentation.

    I will definitely think more about the cleaner. I don't have a real bias towards using a booster or not, but just thought that if the cleaning is pretty good without, then why add another piece of equipment. But maybe the cleaning is not as good as I would hope for.

    Is running a pump for filtration with an autocover on as effective as without the cover on? I'm guessing that skimming is affected but hopefully less debris to skim too.
    18'x38' Rectangle (3'-8 1/2' deep w/ diving board) - 27K gal. w/ gray plaster
    Hayward equipment (cartridge filter, 2-speed pump, SWCG, automation) View Our Build
    Coverstar automatic pool cover | StoneMakers concrete retaining wall and decking
    Spring 2013 Build | Dolphin Active 20 robot cleaner | Support TFP!

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Equipment selection advice sought...

    They usually do show the high speed setting. Depending on the pump line, it is labeled as the single speed. So if you are looking at a 1 HP up rated two speed, the high speed head curve is the same as the 1 HP up rated single speed. This just avoids showing the same thing twice.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: Equipment selection advice sought...

    RE: 380/280 vs. 360 Polaris

    The 360 is supposed to do a fair job but take longer per cycle than the 180/280/380 booster assisted cleaners. The 360 also may require that you take the time to close off 1 or more of your returns to get enough pressure to operate it.
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Equipment selection advice sought...

    I would go with ThePoolCleaner either pressure side or suction side. It doesn't require a booster and it requires less pressure and flow rate than any other non-booster cleaner.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    bmoreswim's Avatar
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    Re: Equipment selection advice sought...

    Thank you for the advice and comments. All good food for thought.
    18'x38' Rectangle (3'-8 1/2' deep w/ diving board) - 27K gal. w/ gray plaster
    Hayward equipment (cartridge filter, 2-speed pump, SWCG, automation) View Our Build
    Coverstar automatic pool cover | StoneMakers concrete retaining wall and decking
    Spring 2013 Build | Dolphin Active 20 robot cleaner | Support TFP!

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