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Thread: constantly fighting holes in new liner

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    constantly fighting holes in new liner

    This pool season has been disastrous. We replaced a 3 year old liner right after we filled the pool up this year because of holes. The new liner seemed to be doing fine, but found there was a small hole last week, so we fixed it, filled up water, etc. I noticed today that the water was a bit lower than it should be under these conditions, so I went back to the "problem spot" and found 2 more small holes with water spraying out. These holes are constantly being located on the bottom of the pool. Nobody has swam in the pool for several weeks. What is the problem? This liner is only a few months old!
    24' AGP
    Hayward Power-Flo LX 1.5hp pump
    Hayward Pro Series S180T 150lb sand filter
    Intex 54601EG Krystal Clear SWG
    Diver Dave pool cleaner

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    y_not's Avatar
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    Re: constantly fighting holes in new liner

    Did you replace the liner, or did you have it done?

    What sort of base is underneath it, concrete, sand, foam, grass?
    I'm not a liner expert, but I'll attempt to take a stab at this and provide some insight from what I have learned about liner installs on here.

    I would expect that the base, underneath the liner wasn't swept clean & vacuumed up well enough, so there's some junk left behind that's punching holes in the liner. Even just the weight of the water would be enough, depending on what's under the liner, to apply enough pressure onto the rock or what have you, that it just punches right through the liner.

    Either that, or it is just an defective or inferior quality liner, or it was overly stretched in that one spot, too much and now the stress is causing it to fail. I would think that would take a lot though, as they're quite flexible.
    Was it done on a warm day, or in the cold?

    It is just in one spot that this keeps happening, correct?
    How large of an area?
    Where exactly is it, you say it is on the bottom, is it in the deep end, shallow end, steps, a corner, on the lip of a drain?
    You said, regarding the hole, that you found "water spraying out" how were you able to see this if the hole was on the bottom of the pool? Just trying to wrap my head around that, unless it was flowing from underneath and coming out the side/base of the pool?
    How are you patching it, is your patch failing, or is the new hole unrelated to your patch, just near it?
    Also, what do the holes look like, rips, cuts, tears, pinholes?
    Thanks for reading... - Tony
    Da' Pool: Intex 15'x42" 3284gal AGP EasySet (Inflatable Ring) - (Summer 2014: 27' round EW /w 6.5' deep end @ 22,500gal)
    Pump & Cart Mod: 1000gph Cart. 5ft² - 2 nylons, 24/7 OP. Traps bugs/bits, lasts longer/cleans easier = Happier Pool Owner!!
    The Bible for a "Trouble Free Pool" life = PoolSchool, the BBB method a TF100 test kit(Recommend Kits Compared). - Cleaning a Sand Filter
    Water looks like GLASS, if yours doesn't...SLAM IT! Feels nice and never been happier!!! :D

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: constantly fighting holes in new liner

    Has your cleaner been running? Maybe give it a good check.
    TFP Moderator
    20K Gallon 20X36 Vinyl Inground
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter with 1HP Whisperflo Pump. Liquidator C-201 and Solar Heat

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: constantly fighting holes in new liner

    How about insects. Do they look like insects could have caused them?

    Where are they located? bottom, wall, how high?
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: constantly fighting holes in new liner

    For the most part, they are just pinholes. I patched 2 holes the other day and they are holding. I do need to get some more sand since it has since washed away.
    24' AGP
    Hayward Power-Flo LX 1.5hp pump
    Hayward Pro Series S180T 150lb sand filter
    Intex 54601EG Krystal Clear SWG
    Diver Dave pool cleaner

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    y_not's Avatar
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    Re: constantly fighting holes in new liner

    Why did your sand wash away?
    Thanks for reading... - Tony
    Da' Pool: Intex 15'x42" 3284gal AGP EasySet (Inflatable Ring) - (Summer 2014: 27' round EW /w 6.5' deep end @ 22,500gal)
    Pump & Cart Mod: 1000gph Cart. 5ft² - 2 nylons, 24/7 OP. Traps bugs/bits, lasts longer/cleans easier = Happier Pool Owner!!
    The Bible for a "Trouble Free Pool" life = PoolSchool, the BBB method a TF100 test kit(Recommend Kits Compared). - Cleaning a Sand Filter
    Water looks like GLASS, if yours doesn't...SLAM IT! Feels nice and never been happier!!! :D

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    Bluegrassman's Avatar
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    Re: constantly fighting holes in new liner

    Quote Originally Posted by y_not
    Why did your sand wash away?
    I assume it washed away due to the leak?

    18x36 Vinyl IG ~27,000 gal, Intelliflo VF Pump, 300# Sand Filter, Polaris 280 w/Pentair Booster Pump, Pentair EasyTouch w/ IC40 SWCG
    TF100 Test Kit
    SpeedStir

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    y_not's Avatar
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    Re: constantly fighting holes in new liner

    That's what I'm assuming, but I just wanted to ask and make sure.
    Thanks for reading... - Tony
    Da' Pool: Intex 15'x42" 3284gal AGP EasySet (Inflatable Ring) - (Summer 2014: 27' round EW /w 6.5' deep end @ 22,500gal)
    Pump & Cart Mod: 1000gph Cart. 5ft² - 2 nylons, 24/7 OP. Traps bugs/bits, lasts longer/cleans easier = Happier Pool Owner!!
    The Bible for a "Trouble Free Pool" life = PoolSchool, the BBB method a TF100 test kit(Recommend Kits Compared). - Cleaning a Sand Filter
    Water looks like GLASS, if yours doesn't...SLAM IT! Feels nice and never been happier!!! :D

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    Re: constantly fighting holes in new liner

    yea, the sand washed away due to the leak. I thought I had fixed the problem 2 days ago, but there is still water running down the hill and a small trickle is coming from the problem area. Water dropped about 1 inch over 1 1/2 days even with a little rain. After a new liner, paying 2 pool guys, refilling water and topping off, I have spent over $500 on this pool and it is only the 3rd season for it! We spend about $3K on a new deck around 1/2 of it. I hate to think that it is all wasted, but I think we are cursed and am really tempted to take it down. We need to close it soon, but with the leak there will be no water in it very quickly. How aggravating.
    24' AGP
    Hayward Power-Flo LX 1.5hp pump
    Hayward Pro Series S180T 150lb sand filter
    Intex 54601EG Krystal Clear SWG
    Diver Dave pool cleaner

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    Re: constantly fighting holes in new liner

    If you do lift it to see, I'd probably put some kind of insecticide down. My guess is some kind of bug, or something.
    26' X 52" Intex Ultra Frame. Intex Sand Filter
    26' X 52 Intex Ultra Frame Install
    You can lead a horse to (clear) water, but you can't force him to swim in it!

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    Re: constantly fighting holes in new liner

    I dont know, but I heard someone say they used that pink foamboard from Lowes to use as an underlayment. I heard horrible things about gorilla pad or happy bottom. Any other suggestions for underlayment?
    24' AGP
    Hayward Power-Flo LX 1.5hp pump
    Hayward Pro Series S180T 150lb sand filter
    Intex 54601EG Krystal Clear SWG
    Diver Dave pool cleaner

  12. Back To Top    #12
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    Re: constantly fighting holes in new liner

    I don't know about the Gorilla Pad, etc..
    But many many members here have used the pink foam board that was mention, with good results. There is one that's not waterproof though, you want to stay away from that, I believe it's white IIRC, you also have to tape it together and I think tape the cut edges.
    Take a stroll through the search function and have a look, lots of threads on it.
    If you can't find what you need and someone doesn't come along here to say what exact type of foam, and which one not to get, procedure, etc..
    Then just start a new thread here in the AGP section, it's a separate topic enough, saving for the above, that I'd think it'd be OK. But do wait to see if someone comes along and answers your question.

    As far as taking the pool down. NOOOOOoooooOOOO! Don't do that.
    I know it's frustrating when things don't go according to plan, despite best efforts.
    But you have already put far too much time, money & effort into it to do that.
    You will more than recoup your loss on the pool by not ever being taken for a ride by the pool store, or paying a pool guy to take care of it for you, so long as you stick around this forum and learn to take care of it yourself. You will more than regain your investment in a very short time and be happily enjoying your pool for many years to come.

    It's not unusual for many folks that visit the forums for the 1st time, to have spent $300-600 or more at the pool store. We call it getting Pool Stored.
    A BBB'er will typically spend as little as $10-15/mo. to $30-40 or so. Bleach is the daily, every other day thing, borax is a one time thing or to fix a problem, so is baking soda. Muriatic acid, MA as we call it is once a month, once a season, or something in between, depending on one's pool. CYA, cyanuric acid or stabilizer is a once a season thing as well, or to top it off from splash out, drainage, leak, etc..
    So there's just the initial price of those chemicals, use what you need, then store the rest for safe keeping until you need them again at some point, then just bleach as your pool requires it. All depending on bather load & size of pool, plus climate conditions and time of year.


    Nothing is free of repairs and initial investment when something goes wrong. We're constantly fixing things here around the house, it's a never ending chore. But at least the pool is fun and enjoyable, not a necessity, like a hot water heater is when your groundwater is about 27deg F. YIKES!! Hard to take a shower in that, HAHA! It's like shock therapy /w out the electricity.

    I like what PAGirl suggested, definitely a good idea. Could be sitting right on top of an ant hill or something right there in that one spot. That would explain the concentrated area.
    Great idea PAGirl!!!

    Hang in there Jett74, you're on your way to pool fun and armed for next season.
    Thanks for reading... - Tony
    Da' Pool: Intex 15'x42" 3284gal AGP EasySet (Inflatable Ring) - (Summer 2014: 27' round EW /w 6.5' deep end @ 22,500gal)
    Pump & Cart Mod: 1000gph Cart. 5ft² - 2 nylons, 24/7 OP. Traps bugs/bits, lasts longer/cleans easier = Happier Pool Owner!!
    The Bible for a "Trouble Free Pool" life = PoolSchool, the BBB method a TF100 test kit(Recommend Kits Compared). - Cleaning a Sand Filter
    Water looks like GLASS, if yours doesn't...SLAM IT! Feels nice and never been happier!!! :D

  13. Back To Top    #13

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    Re: constantly fighting holes in new liner

    Yea, I have been a pool owner for only 3 years, but have belonged to this forum and did the BBB and then switched to SWG this year. I despise pool stores and only go there to get basic supplies like brushes, poles or thermometers.
    24' AGP
    Hayward Power-Flo LX 1.5hp pump
    Hayward Pro Series S180T 150lb sand filter
    Intex 54601EG Krystal Clear SWG
    Diver Dave pool cleaner

  14. Back To Top    #14

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    Re: constantly fighting holes in new liner

    What am I supposed to do about closing the pool this year? I cannot put the cover on it without water in it, the wind would surely blow the sides in, but I cannot put water in it because 1) I cannot afford it and 2) there might still be a leak. What am I supposed to do? Right now I am watching the water levels drop and watching water run down my hill. It's like I am watching money run down my yard.
    24' AGP
    Hayward Power-Flo LX 1.5hp pump
    Hayward Pro Series S180T 150lb sand filter
    Intex 54601EG Krystal Clear SWG
    Diver Dave pool cleaner

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    Bluegrassman's Avatar
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    Re: constantly fighting holes in new liner

    I know it is frustrating. Please don't lose hope. I'm new myself and can't offer solid advice, but I suspect the expert advice is going to be a recommendation to mark leaks, drain, inspect under liner, clean out under liner as needed, apply weed killer and insecticide, install a pad/underliner, reinstall liner, patch and refill.
    18x36 Vinyl IG ~27,000 gal, Intelliflo VF Pump, 300# Sand Filter, Polaris 280 w/Pentair Booster Pump, Pentair EasyTouch w/ IC40 SWCG
    TF100 Test Kit
    SpeedStir

  16. Back To Top    #16

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    Re: constantly fighting holes in new liner

    Well, I had a professional installer come out to "re-evaluate" the situation. He found several more holes in our 3 month old $200 liner. He suggests pulling the liner and replacing it. He suggests going with a beaded liner as opposed to a overlap liner. I don't know how much it will be in all, but I was hoping to get by with not doing this much before closing it down. How much should a liner/install cost for a 24' pool?
    24' AGP
    Hayward Power-Flo LX 1.5hp pump
    Hayward Pro Series S180T 150lb sand filter
    Intex 54601EG Krystal Clear SWG
    Diver Dave pool cleaner

  17. Back To Top    #17
    y_not's Avatar
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    Re: constantly fighting holes in new liner

    So you have to replace a 3month old liner because it's failing?
    I'm not an expert on liner warranties, but I would say... I DON'T THINK SO!
    Get on your game face, cry FOUL and get that puppy warranted and don't take no for an answer.
    PERIOD!!
    Call the FTC if you have to, if that doesn't work, take the company to small claims court and then they will replace it, they'll have to. Only costs you a few bones, in most states, less than you spend on dinner for 2 at an affordably priced restaurant.

    As for an overlap liner as opposed to switching out to a beaded liner, why? Because he wants you to spend more money, higher margin? Naw!
    I'm not a liner expert, but I have learned quite a bit about them and there shouldn't be anything wrong with an overlap liner for AGP like yours. Many have installed them, or had them installed and haven't reported any problems with it.

    I would go back to the company that originally installed it, as it sounds like that's what you had done and make them stand by their product and installation. Some labor may not be covered, but I would be surprised if you didn't find a problem under there, in the base underlayment causing your holes. If so, that's the PB's problem and they have to fix it.

    I don't mean to sound hard nosed, or harsh, or even remotely mean. But sometimes you have to put the gavel down as companies do nothing but mow people over these days and you have to get a little hard nosed and firm to make sure they don't take you for a ride. *Not all do, but too many sadly. If not, it's a roller coaster and you, the consumer, are sadly the theme park.

    Good luck, do keep us posted.
    Thanks for reading... - Tony
    Da' Pool: Intex 15'x42" 3284gal AGP EasySet (Inflatable Ring) - (Summer 2014: 27' round EW /w 6.5' deep end @ 22,500gal)
    Pump & Cart Mod: 1000gph Cart. 5ft² - 2 nylons, 24/7 OP. Traps bugs/bits, lasts longer/cleans easier = Happier Pool Owner!!
    The Bible for a "Trouble Free Pool" life = PoolSchool, the BBB method a TF100 test kit(Recommend Kits Compared). - Cleaning a Sand Filter
    Water looks like GLASS, if yours doesn't...SLAM IT! Feels nice and never been happier!!! :D

  18. Back To Top    #18

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    Re: constantly fighting holes in new liner

    In the Swim will help with the warranty of the liner. They want pics, but did specify clearly that if the problem is not in the seam, nothing is covered and is considered to be owner fault. The holes that I can see are not on the seam. Liners are supposed to last 7 months on average, my 2 have lasted 2 years and 3 months. I was just researching about the liners types, some say that the beaded is a little better quality and also more expensive.
    24' AGP
    Hayward Power-Flo LX 1.5hp pump
    Hayward Pro Series S180T 150lb sand filter
    Intex 54601EG Krystal Clear SWG
    Diver Dave pool cleaner

  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Re: constantly fighting holes in new liner

    A $200 liner is a $200 liner. Unfortunately sometimes we learn these things the hardway. More expensive isn't always better but where liners are concerned usually it does make a difference.
    Over 30 years in the pool business
    We build vinyl, fiberglass, stainless steel pools
    Certified in Hydraulics

  20. Back To Top    #20

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    PAGirl's Avatar
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    Re: constantly fighting holes in new liner

    Did the installer take a guess as to what made the holes?
    26' X 52" Intex Ultra Frame. Intex Sand Filter
    26' X 52 Intex Ultra Frame Install
    You can lead a horse to (clear) water, but you can't force him to swim in it!

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