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Thread: Is propane too expensive?

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    Is propane too expensive?

    Mod (linen) edit: Split from this topic http://www.troublefreepool.com/heate...ns-t52638.html

    I have a 500 gal propane tank which we currently use for tankless hot water heaters as there is no natural gas supply in our area.

    Is Propane too expensive to use to heat up the spa in the winter vice NG? It would not be too difficult for me to add the gas heater. Currently we have a pool/spa heat pump...which will not heat up anything once the temp gets to 50 and below. We would like to use a hot spa in mid winter every now and then.

    Thnx.
    Carl

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    Re: Heater Options

    Carl, How do you like the propane heater for your pool?
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    dmanb2b's Avatar
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    Re: Heater Options

    Quote Originally Posted by brightblonde
    Carl, How do you like the propane heater for your pool?
    From the looks of the post, Carl does not have a propane pool heater, but a residential tankless water heater. Propane is certainly an option where NG is not available, but might be more expensive than NG with tank/set-up costs, etc.

    Carl, you should start a new post for your particular situation.
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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    Re: Is propane too expensive?

    dmanb2b, sorry for my error ... thanks for the correction.
    Intex Ultra Frame 18'x52"
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    Re: Is propane too expensive?

    Thnx for your replies. Start a new post...hmmm... looks like I now have one under "Everything Else". I don't know by what "units" NG is charged...propane is by the gal...or what NG costs vice propane.

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    Re: Is propane too expensive?

    For Natural gas:
    > 1 Cubic Foot has approximately 1020 BTU's
    > There are 100 Cubic Feet per CCF or about 102,000 BTU's
    > Nat gas is roughly $.60 / CCF
    Propane
    > There are 91547 BTU's in a gallon of propane.
    > Propane is roughly $3.00 / Gal

    The whole discussion is a moot point if Nat Gas is not available in your area
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

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    dmanb2b's Avatar
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    Re: Is propane too expensive?

    Quote Originally Posted by CHorn
    Thnx for your replies. Start a new post...hmmm... looks like I now have one under "Everything Else". I don't know by what "units" NG is charged...propane is by the gal...or what NG costs vice propane.

    Hi Carl, the mods moved your question to the correct area for heater discussions - "Equipment - Build, Use, and Repair Everything Else". Although your original question was heater related, like brightblonde's (op), it really is a separate topic, where you are trying to obtain an answer for your specific situation. It is is explained in the TFP forum rules and etiquette section... "Do not "hijack" by attaching your question onto someone's thread. Start your own, even if it is somewhat related."

    Propane will be more expensive than NG, but is a viable option to heat a spa. We have many members who use propane to heat their pools, where NG is not available. Hopefully they will respond soon to give you an idea of what the cost would be. It would also help if you could give some specifics about the spa (size, type, plumbing) as well as your general geographic location, as cost may vary.
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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    Re: Is propane too expensive?

    I have a friend who is at this very moment installing propane to heat his IG pool (here in Northern NJ). He does have NG at his house (his grill is on it in fact) but decided to use propane for the pool.

    It has not been installed yet, so no operating costs, but the propane company will not place the tanks more than 90 feet from the street - they do not want to bring their trucks onto the property (may crack a driveway, cars may be blocking, etc) so that limits where you can place the tanks. Because of this, his tanks are about 80 feet from his equipment pad where the heater will be. He has to dig the trench (2' deep) from the tank location to where the heater will be. The propane company will then place the necessary pipe for $125. So far that is his only cost to bring propane to the pad. We will see how much it costs him to run the heater - his pool is pretty much in the shade all of the time.


    -dave
    27' Round ABG (17,000 gal) - +/- 11 hours of full sun per day
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    Re: Is propane too expensive?

    Thanks very much. I am out a lot so my relies are belated.

    Sorry about the potential "hi-jacking". Was ignorant about starting a new thread.

    Thnx for "potential energy" figures for NG vs propane. I am trying to decide if it is worth my while to add a propane heater to the system but only for the spa. If the rate of propane burning in gals is similar to the that of NG burning in ccf then I can get any idea. Obviously I don't know what a ccf of NG is compared to a gal of propane.

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    Re: Is propane too expensive?

    Quote Originally Posted by CHorn
    Thanks very much. I am out a lot so my relies are belated.

    Sorry about the potential "hi-jacking". Was ignorant about starting a new thread.

    Thnx for "potential energy" figures for NG vs propane. I am trying to decide if it is worth my while to add a propane heater to the system but only for the spa. If the rate of propane burning in gals is similar to the that of NG burning in ccf then I can get any idea. Obviously I don't know what a ccf of NG is compared to a gal of propane.
    1 Cubic Foot has approximately 1020 BTU's
    > There are 100 Cubic Feet per CCF or about 102,000 BTU's
    > Nat gas is roughly $.60 / CCF
    Propane
    > There are 91547 BTU's in a gallon of propane.
    > Propane is roughly $3.00 / Gal

    I underlined the apples to apples comparison.

    Assume for this discussion you are using a 100,000 BTU heater. The 100,000 is the hourly input of the heater. Burning this heater for 5 hours will use About 5.1CCF of natural gas for a cost of $3.06 or about 5.5 gallons of propane at a cost of $16.50. These are rough price estimates based on gas pricing I obtained from the web the other day. Prices in your area may vary from these
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

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    Re: Is propane too expensive?

    Quote Originally Posted by danpik
    Quote Originally Posted by CHorn
    Thanks very much. I am out a lot so my relies are belated.

    Sorry about the potential "hi-jacking". Was ignorant about starting a new thread.

    Thnx for "potential energy" figures for NG vs propane. I am trying to decide if it is worth my while to add a propane heater to the system but only for the spa. If the rate of propane burning in gals is similar to the that of NG burning in ccf then I can get any idea. Obviously I don't know what a ccf of NG is compared to a gal of propane.
    1 Cubic Foot has approximately 1020 BTU's
    > There are 100 Cubic Feet per CCF or about 102,000 BTU's
    > Nat gas is roughly $.60 / CCF
    Propane
    > There are 91547 BTU's in a gallon of propane.
    > Propane is roughly $3.00 / Gal

    I underlined the apples to apples comparison.

    Assume for this discussion you are using a 100,000 BTU heater. The 100,000 is the hourly input of the heater. Burning this heater for 5 hours will use About 5.1CCF of natural gas for a cost of $3.06 or about 5.5 gallons of propane at a cost of $16.50. These are rough price estimates based on gas pricing I obtained from the web the other day. Prices in your area may vary from these

    .60 center per therm is the current natural gas COMMODITY rate in the NY area. Unless you have your own LNG tanker, you are also going to be paying a delivery charge (and maybe a balancing charge) for the use of your gas companies pipeline - that comes to about another 40 cents per therm. Still way cheaper than propane, but all the costs have to be factored in.

    -dave
    27' Round ABG (17,000 gal) - +/- 11 hours of full sun per day
    Hard plumbed Hayward Perflex EC-40 DE filter w/ 1 HP pump (Got a new one June 2015)
    Filered 4 hours per day (on a timer)
    Pentair Aqualuminator - now working - and now dead once again, this time for good.
    Zodiac Wahoo

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    Re: Is propane too expensive?

    Thanks, Dave. No NG lines anywhere near us. Sounds like propane is still viable, tapping into our existing system.
    carl

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    Re: Is propane too expensive?

    Ok if you don't have NG but you have propane and you would like to heat the spa during the colder times, then you just add the propane heater. Why care about costs since you don't have NG in your area.
    Paul
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    Re: Is propane too expensive?

    [quote="phonedave

    .60 center per therm is the current natural gas COMMODITY rate in the NY area. Unless you have your own LNG tanker, you are also going to be paying a delivery charge (and maybe a balancing charge) for the use of your gas companies pipeline - that comes to about another 40 cents per therm. Still way cheaper than propane, but all the costs have to be factored in.

    -dave[/quote]
    I suspected that was the case but, I only had that info in front of me as I am away from home right now. I did do some figuring several years ago when gas to my house was $.75 / CCF delivered. I did this to figure out the cost to run my pool for the summer. Currently our company's contract is for $.59/CCF delivered. We get that rate due to the amount we use durring the winter months. (monthly gas bill of $35,000.00)
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

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    Re: Is propane too expensive?

    Thnx, Paul and Dave.
    C

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    Re: Is propane too expensive?

    [quote=danpik]
    Quote Originally Posted by "phonedave

    .60 center per therm is the current natural gas COMMODITY rate in the NY area. Unless you have your own LNG tanker, you are also going to be paying a delivery charge (and maybe a balancing charge) for the use of your gas companies pipeline - that comes to about another 40 cents per therm. Still way cheaper than propane, but all the costs have to be factored in.

    -dave

    I suspected that was the case :hammer: but, I only had that info in front of me as I am away from home right now. I did do some figuring several years ago when gas to my house was $.75 / CCF delivered. I did this to figure out the cost to run my pool for the summer. Currently our company's contract is for $.59/CCF delivered. We get that rate due to the amount we use durring the winter months. ([b
    monthly gas bill of $35,000.00[/b])

    i really hope you are running some sort of business there

    -dave
    27' Round ABG (17,000 gal) - +/- 11 hours of full sun per day
    Hard plumbed Hayward Perflex EC-40 DE filter w/ 1 HP pump (Got a new one June 2015)
    Filered 4 hours per day (on a timer)
    Pentair Aqualuminator - now working - and now dead once again, this time for good.
    Zodiac Wahoo

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    Re: Is propane too expensive?

    [quote=phonedave]
    Quote Originally Posted by danpik
    Quote Originally Posted by "phonedave

    .60 center per therm is the current natural gas COMMODITY rate in the NY area. Unless you have your own LNG tanker, you are also going to be paying a delivery charge (and maybe a balancing charge) for the use of your gas companies pipeline - that comes to about another 40 cents per therm. Still way cheaper than propane, but all the costs have to be factored in.

    -dave

    I suspected that was the case :hammer: but, I only had that info in front of me as I am away from home right now. I did do some figuring several years ago when gas to my house was $.75 / CCF delivered. I did this to figure out the cost to run my pool for the summer. Currently our company's contract is for $.59/CCF delivered. We get that rate due to the amount we use durring the winter months. ([b
    monthly gas bill of $35,000.00[/b])

    i really hope you are running some sort of business there

    -dave
    Oh yeah, 1000 - 1100 employees in 450,000 SQ FT, 5 buildings, three campus'
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

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