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Thread: Suction or Robot? Help for new automatic cleaner.

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    Suction or Robot? Help for new automatic cleaner.

    It's about time to put my old friend "Barry" down. The G3 has been going off and on for about seven years cleaning a 10K gallon fiberglass pool. He is largely held together with electrical tape securing the many times (and expensively replaced) diaphragm, and screws securing the flap to main body. He barely gets around anymore, and I just don't have the heart to replace another diaphragm. Many times he's been caught stuck in a corner or clogged up or with the swivel part unscrewed.

    Situation: 10K fiberglass pool, SWG, wooded area, racoons leave muddy areas on steps after midnight parties. And I travel during the week. Many times I return home and cleaner is clogged or stuck.

    Before watching your vids, I was contemplating a robotic cleaner but I just don't quite get the concept. With the suction cleaners, they clean when the pump runs and skims at the same time. Pool is always clean. I don't understand taking a robot out, storing it, putting back in the pool and plugging in... when you want the pool clean? Plus the cost. And the mess when you have to clean it. One video review on a robot didn't seem very supportive either. Sales guy said something about taking it out just like you do your other cleaner? Who takes them out?? Maybe if there's gonna be a big kids party or something...

    Anyway I'm pretty set on suction type cleaner. Loved a video review on the G2 being lighter and cheaper than more expensive in the line. Seems like the higher the number the more trouble. Read some great reviews about Kreepy Krauly also.... they seem similar to the G2/3/4? I like the idea of fewer moving parts with these designs. They are tricky to set up sometimes to get the full pool.

    And then awesome reviews on these Poolvergnuegen. Seems they get around very well... even in the shallow end! Just wanted to see what people thought, or if there is something unique to my situation, or hardware. G2 can be had for $200, a Kreepy (K70405) for about $279. And add your $60 hose twister to either of those. Or Poolvergnuegen is out there at $372.
    Pool: 10K Gallon Fiberglass w/ SWG and cart filter.

    Spa: 400G D1 w/ Ozone, Vision (Silver Ion).

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: Suction or Robot? Help for new automatic cleaner.

    I think you've got the right idea. Your pool is small enough that a suction cleaner works well, and the Poolvergneugen is the most consistently loved cleaner out there!
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
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    Re: Suction or Robot? Help for new automatic cleaner.

    Thanks again. Considering I was contemplating a robot, the poolvergnuegen is a bargain. I really think it will work better with my pool and cleaning habits.

    Their website says "all surfaces." I found a pdf for their instruction manual, and they do have three different types of tires and I'm not sure which is the "standard".

    -143 Super Hump most common
    -075 Three raised treads for vinyl and fiberglass
    -334 Solid/Hump tire for tile and slippery or very rough
    -679 Super Super Hump for large obstacles

    It seems that the very few negative reviews are probably related to non compatible tires. Do you know which comes with the unit? These guys sell the 3 raised treads as "standard", but I believe that the Hump tire may actually be the standard.

    http://www.poolproducts4less.com/parts/ ... mit=30&p=1

    Also, how would you rate the required suction between a G2, G3, Kreepy Crawely, and Poolveneugren? I was thinking that less required would mean that I can have my skimmer sucking more and less debris ever gets to the bottom. Hoping you say the Poolveneugren...

    Lastly.. about my pesky racoons that leave steps muddy. Any ideas of how to deter them? I'd love to have a motion activated Owl that hooos loudly and flashes a light! Thanks again!
    Pool: 10K Gallon Fiberglass w/ SWG and cart filter.

    Spa: 400G D1 w/ Ozone, Vision (Silver Ion).

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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: Suction or Robot? Help for new automatic cleaner.

    Quote Originally Posted by akenis
    Also, how would you rate the required suction between a G2, G3, Kreepy Crawely, and Poolveneugren? I was thinking that less required would mean that I can have my skimmer sucking more and less debris ever gets to the bottom. Hoping you say the Poolveneugren...
    Can you have a leaf canister inline with these devices like you can a vac?

    Quote Originally Posted by akenis
    Lastly.. about my pesky racoons that leave steps muddy. Any ideas of how to deter them? I'd love to have a motion activated Owl that hooos loudly and flashes a light! Thanks again!
    Some ideas:
    http://www.ehow.com/how_7790658_stop-ra ... -pool.html
    http://www.wildlife-removal.com/raccoon-poop-pool.html
    http://www.raccoonatticguide.com/prevention.html
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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    Re: Suction or Robot? Help for new automatic cleaner.

    Quote Originally Posted by akenis
    Situation: 10K fiberglass pool, SWG, wooded area, racoons leave muddy areas on steps after midnight parties. And I travel during the week. Many times I return home and cleaner is clogged or stuck.

    Before watching your vids, I was contemplating a robotic cleaner but I just don't quite get the concept. With the suction cleaners, they clean when the pump runs and skims at the same time. Pool is always clean. I don't understand taking a robot out, storing it, putting back in the pool and plugging in... when you want the pool clean? Plus the cost. And the mess when you have to clean it. One video review on a robot didn't seem very supportive either. Sales guy said something about taking it out just like you do your other cleaner? Who takes them out?? Maybe if there's gonna be a big kids party or something...
    .
    The reasons I went robotic (specifically, an AquaJet and just recently a Turbo T-Jet) was because the Kreepy Krauly I owned for several years required expensive parts every year, it would get stuck even with the booster attachment (which also required expensive replacement parts each year), filled our filter up far more rapidly, was noisy (especially so when our pump was turned on in the middle of night due to "freeze protection" of my SWG that controls the pump), it still required you to take it out from time-to-time when you have swimmers in the pool.

    The reason I went with the AquaJet originally was the promise of no expensive replacement parts (the only thing that ever died was the transformer reset button which I fixed for < $5), less filter cleaning, less expensive than the fully robotic cleaners, quiet operation, cleans the pool in 1-2 hours, doesn't get stuck, no early morning wake up calls from the SWG/suction cleaner. The AquaJet worked so well for many years, probably 7 (until the motor leaked) that I bought the similar Turbo T Jet recently to replace it.
    13,000 gallon fiberglass pool
    Auto Pilot - Pool Pilot Digital SWG
    S.R. Smith - Turbo Twister slide
    Aquabot - Turbo T Jet cleaner
    Jandy - CS250 cartridge filter
    RayPak - CR206 gas heater
    Pentair - WhisperFlo 1.5 HP pump

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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: Suction or Robot? Help for new automatic cleaner.

    Quote Originally Posted by gwar9999
    The reason I went with the AquaJet originally was the promise of no expensive replacement parts (the only thing that ever died was the transformer reset button which I fixed for < $5), less filter cleaning, less expensive than the fully robotic cleaners...
    What is the AquaJet if it isn't "fully robotic" - I am not clear what this means.
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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    Re: Suction or Robot? Help for new automatic cleaner.

    Thanks for the info on Racoons! Should be no problem running an inline canister on any section cleaner... and highly recommended. Twice Ive had small toys or debris clog up the auction line. Inline canister is cheap insurance against big headaches!

    I guess that's one downside to suction cleaners.... threat of getting clogged and or damaging the other filter/pump components. That and you are robbing suction pressure from the skimmer and/or drain.

    Really looking forward to Poolveneugren! Support was awesome. They said not to bother with special fiberglass tires... can just cut the jumps off the tires if you want it to climb a bit better. Special tires only really needed for slick spray on fiberglass or tile pools or really rough pools (feet get cut).
    Pool: 10K Gallon Fiberglass w/ SWG and cart filter.

    Spa: 400G D1 w/ Ozone, Vision (Silver Ion).

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    Re: Suction or Robot? Help for new automatic cleaner.

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderWaterVanya
    Quote Originally Posted by gwar9999

    What is the AquaJet if it isn't "fully robotic" - I am not clear what this means.
    It was a predecessor to the Turbo T-Jet from a subsidiary of Aqua Products. It appears that the subsidiary "AquaJet" has been absorbed by Aqua Products since they now sell similar products. Further, the AquaJet was apparently licensed to iRobot and sold under the Verro 300 name (retails for $699). Like the AquaJet, the Turbo T-Jet doesn't have a "brain" or any sort of computer logic, which is why I don't classify it as a robot. It has a motor and 2 axles of wheels (the front wheels pivot, the rear are static) so it covers the pool randomly rather than making decisions. It also doesn't have tracks, dual motors, brushes, etc... and I paid about $550 for it. The fully robotic cleaners seem to start around $900 or so and the suction cleaners are using in $300 range, from what I recall.
    13,000 gallon fiberglass pool
    Auto Pilot - Pool Pilot Digital SWG
    S.R. Smith - Turbo Twister slide
    Aquabot - Turbo T Jet cleaner
    Jandy - CS250 cartridge filter
    RayPak - CR206 gas heater
    Pentair - WhisperFlo 1.5 HP pump

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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: Suction or Robot? Help for new automatic cleaner.

    Thanks - that cleared up my confusion. One further question; how does it get unstuck? I have a Polaris pressure side cleaner which has a mechanical backup timer that pulls the cleaner backwards in a random pattern every few minutes.
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Re: Suction or Robot? Help for new automatic cleaner.

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderWaterVanya
    Thanks - that cleared up my confusion. One further question; how does it get unstuck? I have a Polaris pressure side cleaner which has a mechanical backup timer that pulls the cleaner backwards in a random pattern every few minutes.
    The Turbo T-Jet has a few extra tiny wheels to help for sticky situations. I've never seen either the AquaJet or Turbo T-Jet get stuck in my pool. We have steps and a ladder that, while it doesn't really clean them, it doesn't get stuck on them. These cleaners go forward and reverse every X seconds (where X is 1-90 seconds, although 1 doesn't make much sense). I have it set for 45... so it goes forward for 45, backwards for 45, repeat. I think every so often it does a quick 5 second reversal-- not sure why, but it's mentioned in the manual. It auto-shuts off after 2 hours but it has a continuous mode if you want to run it longer. I've always been amazed at how much dirt these cleaners trap even when my pool appears spotless. I doubt one of the models with more bells and whistles could trap any more dirt.
    13,000 gallon fiberglass pool
    Auto Pilot - Pool Pilot Digital SWG
    S.R. Smith - Turbo Twister slide
    Aquabot - Turbo T Jet cleaner
    Jandy - CS250 cartridge filter
    RayPak - CR206 gas heater
    Pentair - WhisperFlo 1.5 HP pump

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Suction or Robot? Help for new automatic cleaner.

    these are jet propelled correct and not driven wheels? I tried one in my pool and found with even a little bit of dirt picked up, it lost enough jet force that it could not get out of the deep end of the pool

    Seemed to clean well, but probably only good for flat bottom pools.

    Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short
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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: Suction or Robot? Help for new automatic cleaner.

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    these are jet propelled correct and not driven wheels? I tried one in my pool and found with even a little bit of dirt picked up, it lost enough jet force that it could not get out of the deep end of the pool

    Seemed to clean well, but probably only good for flat bottom pools.
    http://www.aquaproducts.com/pdfs/update ... lsheet.pdf

    Yes it is jet driven. Interestingly the say it will climb walls and they specify this model for inground pools. They do say you need a radiused join between the wall and floor. The oddest thing about their info was the electrical cost the claims were all different and the claims made for the competition (pressure side) booster pumps were outrageous 30amps was a figure they used for "some booster pumps" which I have a hard time accepting.
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Re: Suction or Robot? Help for new automatic cleaner.

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderWaterVanya
    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    these are jet propelled correct and not driven wheels? I tried one in my pool and found with even a little bit of dirt picked up, it lost enough jet force that it could not get out of the deep end of the pool

    Seemed to clean well, but probably only good for flat bottom pools.
    http://www.aquaproducts.com/pdfs/update ... lsheet.pdf

    Yes it is jet driven. Interestingly the say it will climb walls and they specify this model for inground pools. They do say you need a radiused join between the wall and floor. The oddest thing about their info was the electrical cost the claims were all different and the claims made for the competition (pressure side) booster pumps were outrageous 30amps was a figure they used for "some booster pumps" which I have a hard time accepting.
    I've had no problems with either model I've owned climbing out of the deep end nor climbing walls (we have a bean shaped pool and the walls are slightly rounded where they meet the floor). Prior to resurfacing our pool 2 years ago, it was Gunite and now it's fiberglass so the finish doesn't seem to matter to the cleaner. If I observe it, I can see it climbing to the waterline, pausing and then reversing which results in a pleasant splashing sound. I've read that climbing is a complaint of some and that adding the floats that were in the box of the T Jet (I didn't use them) aids it if it is unable to climb. There are occasions of heavy dirt (in particular, when we've had nearby wildfires and ash fills our pool) that the cleaner gets bogged down so it's unable to climb the walls. In these rare cases, I will clean the filter bag and place the cleaner back in the pool.

    As for the electrical claims I'm sure they are "best case for our product, worst case for our competitors" but I think every company is guilty of those distortions. However, I'm sure it saves me money in the long run since: I don't have to run the pump (or a booster pump) as much (certainly more expensive than the cleaner), I don't have to clean the filter as much (I used to have to do it weekly or more with the Kreepy Krauly) which is far more time consuming (and worse on my back) than cleaning the filter bag.
    13,000 gallon fiberglass pool
    Auto Pilot - Pool Pilot Digital SWG
    S.R. Smith - Turbo Twister slide
    Aquabot - Turbo T Jet cleaner
    Jandy - CS250 cartridge filter
    RayPak - CR206 gas heater
    Pentair - WhisperFlo 1.5 HP pump

  14. Back To Top    #14
    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: Suction or Robot? Help for new automatic cleaner.

    Quote Originally Posted by gwar9999
    As for the electrical claims I'm sure they are "best case for our product, worst case for our competitors" but I think every company is guilty of those distortions. However, I'm sure it saves me money in the long run since: I don't have to run the pump (or a booster pump) as much (certainly more expensive than the cleaner), I don't have to clean the filter as much (I used to have to do it weekly or more with the Kreepy Krauly) which is far more time consuming (and worse on my back) than cleaning the filter bag.
    I get that. But they could at least stick to rational and consistent. The multiple places that electricity came up gave estimates from 2 cents per cleaning cycle to 10 cents and then they use a 30amp booster for comparison - not sure what mondo pump that is but mine is on a 15amp circuit and probably draws a lot less since it's a 3/4 HP pump that I think has a service factor of 1.0 - granted the pool pump is also running at the same time - which may be what they were talking about now that I think of it! Doh!
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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