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Thread: is Borax the same as Pool Conditioner

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    is Borax the same as Pool Conditioner

    [Mod (linen) edit: Poll removed, since it was confusing with the thread title:

    The questions was:
    Do you use substitutes products for your pool like clorox and borax?
    There were 10 votes yes and 1 vote no at time of removal.]


    Hi. this is my second Post.
    I have a Summer Scape pool (specs on the bottom) The little pump that comes with the pool just died. So I got myself a SanPro 50.
    After having the pool completely green! and infested with algae (since I went without filter for like 5 days) I ran the new sand filter the whole night and the algae was gone. I add a whole gallon of chlorine and brush the bottom of the pool. the Algae is dead! Thank God!
    BEFORE
    [attachment=2:2so0i0j6]green.png[/attachment:2so0i0j6]
    AFTER
    on this fist photo you can see a little bit of green at the bottom I will brush that too.
    [attachment=1:2so0i0j6]photo 1-1.jpeg[/attachment:2so0i0j6]
    [attachment=0:2so0i0j6]photo 2.jpeg[/attachment:2so0i0j6]


    So, I know that for now on I have to keep the levels of Chlorine in check and run the pump.

    MY REAL QUESTION IS
    I took an example of my water to the local pool store. The guy said "you chlorine is a little bit to high, you need conditioner"
    I have BORAX. Does Borax has the same effect as conditioner? I read at POOL SCHOOL that BORAX is like "water conditioner"
    He recommended 2 pounds of that stuff. So, All I need is 2 pounds of BOREX?

    I am so sorry that I dont have a testing kit, but after buying the pool, filling with the water and installing the MANDATORY fence, the sand filter, and all the chemicals, I dont want to spend more for a while.

    Thank you for reading!.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Pool: 5725 gallons
    Filter: SandPro 50 half horse power
    Type Pool: Above Ground Summer Scape
    Made out off: I dont know what type of material is made out off.
    Size pump and flow rate: Half horse power / I dont know the flow rate
    Date of pool intall: June 20th, 2012

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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: is Borax the same as Pool Conditioner

    As far as I know - there is no accepted generic definition of what "pool conditioner" is - I think they just wanted to sell you something.

    As for the testing - a minimal test from Wally World (6 way) is better than nothing.
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: is Borax the same as Pool Conditioner

    Conditioner is usually CYA. It can be other things but it normally refers to CYA. Conditioner and stabilizer are usually the common terms for it. It is definitely not Borax!
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    Re: is Borax the same as Pool Conditioner

    I second Bama's nomination. 98.3% of the time conditioner means CYA. Also did you know 64% of statistics are made up on the spot? Seriously though, conditioner in my experience refers to CYA.

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    Re: is Borax the same as Pool Conditioner

    ok. So correct me if I am wrong.
    Borax is the same ??????????????
    Conditioner is CYA
    At pool school the BBB method does not mention CYA what is that? Do I have to get it from the Pool Store of is there a substitute?
    Pool: 5725 gallons
    Filter: SandPro 50 half horse power
    Type Pool: Above Ground Summer Scape
    Made out off: I dont know what type of material is made out off.
    Size pump and flow rate: Half horse power / I dont know the flow rate
    Date of pool intall: June 20th, 2012

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    Re: is Borax the same as Pool Conditioner

    Never mind, this post: http://www.troublefreepool.com/do-i-...ore-t8256.html says there is not substitues. I will ge the little kit and post some results. How about that?

    Thanks!
    Pool: 5725 gallons
    Filter: SandPro 50 half horse power
    Type Pool: Above Ground Summer Scape
    Made out off: I dont know what type of material is made out off.
    Size pump and flow rate: Half horse power / I dont know the flow rate
    Date of pool intall: June 20th, 2012

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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: is Borax the same as Pool Conditioner

    Quote Originally Posted by denisrenepl
    At pool school the BBB method does not mention CYA what is that? Do I have to get it from the Pool Store of is there a substitute?
    Read the Recommended Chemicals section. CYA is listed.
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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    Re: is Borax the same as Pool Conditioner

    It sounds really serious. If I dont add that what kind of effects will I have in the Pool?
    ALSO the guy from the store told me to add this http://www.hasapool.com/prod-type/no...nditioner.html

    it is CYA. He told to add all the bottle. I guess I will go pick it up.
    What do you think?
    Sorry if my questions are stupid but I NEVER in my life had a pool
    Pool: 5725 gallons
    Filter: SandPro 50 half horse power
    Type Pool: Above Ground Summer Scape
    Made out off: I dont know what type of material is made out off.
    Size pump and flow rate: Half horse power / I dont know the flow rate
    Date of pool intall: June 20th, 2012

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    Re: is Borax the same as Pool Conditioner

    Have you used any of the bagged chlorine products or "pucks"? If so, you may already have some CYA in there. How long have you had your pool, and what size is it?
    26' X 52" Intex Ultra Frame. Intex Sand Filter
    26' X 52 Intex Ultra Frame Install
    You can lead a horse to (clear) water, but you can't force him to swim in it!

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: is Borax the same as Pool Conditioner

    Do NOT add the whole bottle until you know what your current CYA level is (as PAGirl asked ... have you used any solid chlorine?).

    Once your CYA is too high, the only way to lower it is by replacing water.

    So you know, 1 lb of the granule CYA will raise your CYA by ~20ppm (use poolcalculator.com to make these calculations) ... do not just dump it in the pool as the bottle may say, put it in a sock hung in front of a return.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Re: is Borax the same as Pool Conditioner

    The only chlorine I used is liquid. I added a Clearview when the pool was green.
    www.hydropool.com/cgi-bin/hydro/item/Po ... DB001.html

    I also used some Pool Aid stuff (www.intheswim.com/Pool-Chemicals/Natura ... First-Aid/ )

    I won't add anything until I get a test kit. For right now I will take an example every morning to my local store pool. At least they can tell me if the chlorine is low.

    Can I go in the pool now???????
    Pool: 5725 gallons
    Filter: SandPro 50 half horse power
    Type Pool: Above Ground Summer Scape
    Made out off: I dont know what type of material is made out off.
    Size pump and flow rate: Half horse power / I dont know the flow rate
    Date of pool intall: June 20th, 2012

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    Re: is Borax the same as Pool Conditioner

    If the chlorine is ok, can I go in now? The algae is gone. And my pump is working....
    May I?
    Pool: 5725 gallons
    Filter: SandPro 50 half horse power
    Type Pool: Above Ground Summer Scape
    Made out off: I dont know what type of material is made out off.
    Size pump and flow rate: Half horse power / I dont know the flow rate
    Date of pool intall: June 20th, 2012

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    Re: is Borax the same as Pool Conditioner

    Quote Originally Posted by PAGirl
    Have you used any of the bagged chlorine products or "pucks"? If so, you may already have some CYA in there. How long have you had your pool, and what size is it?
    The chlorine I used is always liquid. I did added a Clear view shock when the pool was green, and a First Aid Pool.

    Read my signature. All the info you are asking is there
    Pool: 5725 gallons
    Filter: SandPro 50 half horse power
    Type Pool: Above Ground Summer Scape
    Made out off: I dont know what type of material is made out off.
    Size pump and flow rate: Half horse power / I dont know the flow rate
    Date of pool intall: June 20th, 2012

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: is Borax the same as Pool Conditioner

    If you have some FC in the pool, and the water is clear and you do not have high CC ... you are free to use the pool.

    That Clearview is dichlor so it added CYA ... how much did you use so that you can estimate how much CYA you should now have?

    Just know that if the CYA is very low, the sun is going to break down the FC quickly. You could add the CYA in a sock and go swimming and give it a squeeze every time you swim by to help it dissolve.

    EDIT: Just want to point out that some of us use our phones to access the forum (using Tapatalk), when I do that, I can not see people's signatures without opening your profile. Might explain the previous questions.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Re: is Borax the same as Pool Conditioner

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    If you have some FC in the pool, and the water is clear and you do not have high CC ... you are free to use the pool.

    That Clearview is dichlor so it added CYA ... how much did you use so that you can estimate how much CYA you should now have?

    Just know that if the CYA is very low, the sun is going to break down the FC quickly. You could add the CYA in a sock and go swimming and give it a squeeze every time you swim by to help it dissolve.

    EDIT: Just want to point out that some of us use our phones to access the forum (using Tapatalk), when I do that, I can not see people's signatures without opening your profile. Might explain the previous questions.
    I added the whole bag from the link I posted before. The guy from the store told me my chlorine was a little high.
    I do not want to add the CYA until I get a a test kit.
    The cya helps the FC to NOT break,right? so I think I will just add chlorine at the end of the day.
    What is CC level?? O_O
    Pool: 5725 gallons
    Filter: SandPro 50 half horse power
    Type Pool: Above Ground Summer Scape
    Made out off: I dont know what type of material is made out off.
    Size pump and flow rate: Half horse power / I dont know the flow rate
    Date of pool intall: June 20th, 2012

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: is Borax the same as Pool Conditioner

    Read:
    ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry
    Recommended Pool Chemicals

    Using poolcalculator ... 1 lb of dichlor add 12ppm FC and 11ppm CYA. Note that the CYA test only goes down to 20ppm.

    I would recommend adding a pound of the granule CYA which should put you around 30ppm and actually be measurable when you get your kit. It will also greatly reduce the amount of FC you have to add each day as you will loose less to the sun.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: is Borax the same as Pool Conditioner

    I feel the need to give my opinion on the poll's wording. When I think of substitute - it makes me think alternative, meaning similar... it works the same, but it's different than the original. Sodium hypochlorite (salt-water-chlorine mixture) is the exact same liquid whether it's labeled Clorox (6%), "Pool Shock" at 12.5% or Pool Sanitizer (10%). Many other chemicals are the same, look at active ingredients and you will find what the pool store sells is the exact same stuff, with additives thrown in (which means extra chemicals you likely don't need!).

    The only chemicals I've used this year are:
    sodium hypochlorite (currently using 12.5% labeled "pool shock")
    muriatic acid (liquid form, but the exact same active ingredient found in pH minus or Alkalinity minus)

    and possibly before the season is over, a bit of sodium bicarbonate to raise alkalinity. Commonly known as baking soda and sold by the pool store as Alkalinity Plus for 13-20x the price of Arm & Hammer)
    Aaron
    [ Vogue Vectra 24' AG | Hard plumb: Hayward Power-Flo Matrix 1HP 2-speed, 27" sand filter & Pentair MiniMax 100 NG | Taylor K-2006 | Central IL ]
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    Re: is Borax the same as Pool Conditioner

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedo
    I feel the need to give my opinion on the poll's wording. When I think of substitute - it makes me think alternative, meaning similar... it works the same, but it's different than the original. Sodium hypochlorite (salt-water-chlorine mixture) is the exact same liquid whether it's labeled Clorox (6%), "Pool Shock" at 12.5% or Pool Sanitizer (10%). Many other chemicals are the same, look at active ingredients and you will find what the pool store sells is the exact same stuff, with additives thrown in (which means extra chemicals you likely don't need!).

    The only chemicals I've used this year are:
    sodium hypochlorite (currently using 12.5% labeled "pool shock")
    muriatic acid (liquid form, but the exact same active ingredient found in pH minus or Alkalinity minus)

    and possibly before the season is over, a bit of sodium bicarbonate to raise alkalinity. Commonly known as baking soda and sold by the pool store as Alkalinity Plus for 13-20x the price of Arm & Hammer)
    I am sorry I failed to see the point on your response... maybe I am missing something.
    Pool: 5725 gallons
    Filter: SandPro 50 half horse power
    Type Pool: Above Ground Summer Scape
    Made out off: I dont know what type of material is made out off.
    Size pump and flow rate: Half horse power / I dont know the flow rate
    Date of pool intall: June 20th, 2012

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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: is Borax the same as Pool Conditioner

    He is saying these "subs" are really often the same chemicals packaged differently not different at all as the poll implies.
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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    Re: is Borax the same as Pool Conditioner

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderWaterVanya
    He is saying these "subs" are really often the same chemicals packaged differently not different at all as the poll implies.
    Oh I see the point Borax is not a "sub" But is the same thing BUT from a different source!

    I get it. Thanks!
    Pool: 5725 gallons
    Filter: SandPro 50 half horse power
    Type Pool: Above Ground Summer Scape
    Made out off: I dont know what type of material is made out off.
    Size pump and flow rate: Half horse power / I dont know the flow rate
    Date of pool intall: June 20th, 2012

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