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Thread: Intermatic timer won't turn on/off pump.

  1. #21
    Senior Member UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: Intermatic timer won't turn on/off pump.

    Follow that cord - what does it go to?

    I'd replace the breaker - if it worked before it seems likely that it is just going bad and some minor difference in the load in the morning (maybe the motor is colder?) is causing the trip. It's usually cheap and reasonably easy to replace a breaker - I've done it myself a dozen times.
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

  2. #22
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Intermatic timer won't turn on/off pump.

    That's not a gfci (ground fault circuit interrupter) breaker.

    What rating is that breaker?
    Are the handles of that breaker tied together?
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 1.5hp Dynamo pump. 24" Pentair Sand Dollar Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit
    You can stop SLAMing your pool when you pass the OCLT (You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & You have .5ppm CC's or less) & your water is clear.

  3. #23
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    Re: Intermatic timer won't turn on/off pump.

    The cord (under the letter "C" in the photo) goes into the ground towards the pool. Don't know where it leads.

    How do I find the "rating" on the breaker? Yes, the handles are attached together with a piece of plastic and it says "common trip" on the plastic.
    There's also a very faded sticker on the breaker and I made out the numbers 10,000 as well as 36 lbs. Does that mean anything to you?
    In-ground salt water pool, sand filter, 4-5 feet deep, kidney shaped small pebble tech pool with water feature. Not sure how many gallons (6000 perhaps)?

  4. #24
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Intermatic timer won't turn on/off pump.

    There should be a number stamped on the handles. That's the number of amps the breaker is rated form.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 1.5hp Dynamo pump. 24" Pentair Sand Dollar Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit
    You can stop SLAMing your pool when you pass the OCLT (You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & You have .5ppm CC's or less) & your water is clear.

  5. #25
    Senior Member UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: Intermatic timer won't turn on/off pump.

    Tied together indicates 240 doesn't it guys? I've never seen 120 that was setup with a double breaker before. I thought this pump and timer were 120 not 240... I'm now officially LOST.

    I'm also worried about a plug that "goes into the ground" that's definately not kosher - that's not ground burial material or at least it doesn't appear to be and anything buried is typically hard wired not plugged in.
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

  6. #26
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    Re: Intermatic timer won't turn on/off pump.

    Here's a couple of close-up photo's of the breaker (handle and faded sticker). I've also attached a photo of the wire going into the ground - is that not normal?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    In-ground salt water pool, sand filter, 4-5 feet deep, kidney shaped small pebble tech pool with water feature. Not sure how many gallons (6000 perhaps)?

  7. #27
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Intermatic timer won't turn on/off pump.

    Those 15's on the handles mean it's a 15 amp double pole breaker. Yeah, it's 230 volt, but so is the timer so they match.

    What size is the pump?

    I suspect the breaker may be going bad but hate to suggest changing it just because. But it is the simplest thing to do.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 1.5hp Dynamo pump. 24" Pentair Sand Dollar Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit
    You can stop SLAMing your pool when you pass the OCLT (You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & You have .5ppm CC's or less) & your water is clear.

  8. #28
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    Re: Intermatic timer won't turn on/off pump.

    Um, I'm not sure the size. I've attached a photo of the stickers on the pump.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    In-ground salt water pool, sand filter, 4-5 feet deep, kidney shaped small pebble tech pool with water feature. Not sure how many gallons (6000 perhaps)?

  9. #29
    Senior Member UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: Intermatic timer won't turn on/off pump.

    In my opinion, nothing good can come of a plug that disappears into the dirt.

    As for the pump - I must have misread something earlier in the thread and thought it was 120v - ignore that question.

    As I recall a single phase motor needs a circuit rated for 125% the amps on the label. 10.4 * 1.25 = 13A which seems like a reasonable load on a 15A breaker - but if the breaker is going bad it could trip much earlier.
    BTW - is any of that other stuff tied to the same breaker? If you plug a lamp or something else (cell phone charger) into the receptacle at the bottom of the panel and trip the breaker does it go off? I don't expect it to - just asking. Can you figure out which breaker does control that socket?
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

  10. #30
    Senior Member msgtdan's Avatar
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    Re: Intermatic timer won't turn on/off pump.

    Have you tried turning on the motor manually in the morning? If the bearings in the motor or seal in the pump is going that could put extra strain on the circuit in the morning and trip the breaker. In the evening when it's warmer the bearings/seal might not offer enough resistance to cause the breaker to trip.
    Dan D
    Used 2003 Aqua Leader 27'x52", 17,800 w/10" hopper, SwimPro SW256T 250# sand filter, Hayward PowerFlo LX pump 1hp impellor, Emerson 1 1/2 hp motor, setup Aug 2012 Summer 2011 used Summer Escapes Ring pool 14' x 42", Intex 1600gph sand filter, HTH 6 way test kitTF-100 w/stirrer, Well water @ FC=0, PH=7.2, TA=290, CH=320

  11. #31
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    Re: Intermatic timer won't turn on/off pump.

    @UnderWaterVanya

    I tried both breakers. One (A) is for the pool and the other (B) is for the light/plug. I'm not sure what the "switch" (D) is for though?
    I plugged a light into the socket (C) and the breaker (B) controls that socket < see attached photo below >.


    @msgtdan

    By turning the motor "manually", do you mean, simply flicking the switch on the dial to "ON"? If so, that;s what I've been doing. By seal, do you mean "O" ring? I had a pool guy come out here last month to "lube" all the "O" rings and he "lubed" the one on the pump. If there is another way of manually turning on the motor, how do you do that? I've attached a photo of our pump < see below >.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    In-ground salt water pool, sand filter, 4-5 feet deep, kidney shaped small pebble tech pool with water feature. Not sure how many gallons (6000 perhaps)?

  12. #32
    Senior Member UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: Intermatic timer won't turn on/off pump.

    What does timer plug mean? When you say pool light is that an underwater light plugged into that outlet? "B" appears to be two different breakers is it?

    Lastly - try leaving the pump off overnight and set it to start later - in the morning check the breaker and then manually switch the pump on - do this at the same time the switch has been set for. Check the breaker to see if it trips.

    The seals mentioned are not likely to be the o-rings you mentioned. The seals are often ceramic and keep water from leaking while allowing the motor shaft to turn.
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

  13. #33
    Senior Member msgtdan's Avatar
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    Re: Intermatic timer won't turn on/off pump.

    simply flicking the switch on the dial to "ON"?
    I just hadn't seen where you'd try it in the morning, if not, being cooler in the morning could make a difference and cause the breaker to throw.

    The seal I'm thinking of is the one on the motor shaft at the pump housing. It's not normally lubricated and I know from experience that when it's bad it can cause enough resistance in the motor to throw the breaker.

    I have also seen weak breakers as others have suggested. Just wanted to throw out some ideas I hadn't seen mentioned yet.
    Dan D
    Used 2003 Aqua Leader 27'x52", 17,800 w/10" hopper, SwimPro SW256T 250# sand filter, Hayward PowerFlo LX pump 1hp impellor, Emerson 1 1/2 hp motor, setup Aug 2012 Summer 2011 used Summer Escapes Ring pool 14' x 42", Intex 1600gph sand filter, HTH 6 way test kitTF-100 w/stirrer, Well water @ FC=0, PH=7.2, TA=290, CH=320

  14. #34
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    Re: Intermatic timer won't turn on/off pump.

    Oddly enough, the pump has been working just fine the past 3 mornings. I guess, all of that "tinkering" of removing the face plate, resetting the breaker a few times and readjusting the trippers did something to make it start working again. Or maybe the humidity from the monsoons we were having last week dried up. either way, it seems to be working like normal for now. Thank you everyone for all of your help, it was GREATLY appreciated.
    In-ground salt water pool, sand filter, 4-5 feet deep, kidney shaped small pebble tech pool with water feature. Not sure how many gallons (6000 perhaps)?

  15. #35
    Junior Member TheLoneHoot's Avatar
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    Re: Intermatic timer won't turn on/off pump.

    Was there ever any final explanation for this? I have an Intermatic timer doing the same thing (except the breaker part). It'll trip off just fine, can be turned on manually just fine, but won't trip on, no breaker issues. I've checked the positioning of the trippers a buhzillion times (this has been going on for over a year). I've seen other folks on the web having this issue, but have yet to see a real solution.
    -Austin
    *
    15,000 gal (I think) sort of "hexagonal dogbone" shaped pool built in 1996
    Hayward Super Pump, Cartridge type filter, 1HP motor (new as of 31 August 2013)
    Hayward Aquadroid cleaner (original model) totally rebuilt except for shell in last year or so

    [center:1mx1gn4d]Pool (p?l): n. a hole in the ground into which one throws vast sums of money[/center:1mx1gn4d]


    [center:1mx1gn4d]Since I&#39;m always asked:[/center:1mx1gn4d]
    [center:1mx1gn4d]* * * * * * * * * * * *How&#39;s the weather in FL?[/center:1mx1gn4d]

  16. #36
    Senior Member msgtdan's Avatar
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    Re: Intermatic timer won't turn on/off pump.

    I just recently picked up some new trips at the hardware store and the package had 2 on trips and one off. The two on trips were different colors and the package said one was for T100 series timers and the other was something else. Looked like maybe 1/16 inch length difference, not sure what effect of using the wrong one would be.
    Dan D
    Used 2003 Aqua Leader 27'x52", 17,800 w/10" hopper, SwimPro SW256T 250# sand filter, Hayward PowerFlo LX pump 1hp impellor, Emerson 1 1/2 hp motor, setup Aug 2012 Summer 2011 used Summer Escapes Ring pool 14' x 42", Intex 1600gph sand filter, HTH 6 way test kitTF-100 w/stirrer, Well water @ FC=0, PH=7.2, TA=290, CH=320

  17. #37
    Junior Member TheLoneHoot's Avatar
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    Re: Intermatic timer won't turn on/off pump.

    Hmmm... good suggestion. I can see how one model might have different length trips vs. another model. I'm pretty sure these are original. However, that makes me wonder if they're worn after years of daily "tripping". The pool is original to the house, which was built in 1996, and I am about 99.999999483% sure that the timer is just as original. I'll run over to Ace hardware and see if they have anything similar (I imagine they would for water heaters as well as pool pumps).

    Thanks, Sarge!

    [center:37ok48bn]========================= UPDATE =========================[/center:37ok48bn]

    MSgtDan was right - new trips from Ace hardware - $3.49 + tax. Not bad at all!

    SOLUTION - For anyone searching for this issue like I was, here's what it was specifically in my case: For the extremely common T-100 series of Intermatic timers (mine's a T-104), there are specific trips that are used. When you get a set from Ace hardware (and presumably any other hardware store), they mention this fact.

    The "OFF" trips are gold colored and work for all Intermatic timers, but there are two types of "ON" trips - silver and green:

    (the "green" is actually a green tinted/anodized silver and it's hard to make out at the top right, in this image)

    The T-100 series requires the green trip, while their other series of timers require the silver one. I swapped out the silver I had on there for the new green one and, PRESTO! Fixed.

    In looking back mentally I vaguely recall messing with the trips a year or more ago, and I seem to recall that there was at one time a green one (which I didn't see anywhere out there lately, so I must've lost or misplaced it somewhere), and that there was an "extra" trip lying around inside the timer box for some reason. At some point I may have taken the trips off and mucked about with the timer for some reason and replaced the proper green one with the improper silver one (and then promptly lost track of the green one). Only thing I can think of. Plus, like I say, I seem to recall a green one at some point... pretty ****ed sure of it now.

    AAAAAAaaaaaaaaaanyway...

    ...it's fixed. GREAT TIP, Sarge!!! Thanks!
    -Austin
    *
    15,000 gal (I think) sort of "hexagonal dogbone" shaped pool built in 1996
    Hayward Super Pump, Cartridge type filter, 1HP motor (new as of 31 August 2013)
    Hayward Aquadroid cleaner (original model) totally rebuilt except for shell in last year or so

    [center:1mx1gn4d]Pool (p?l): n. a hole in the ground into which one throws vast sums of money[/center:1mx1gn4d]


    [center:1mx1gn4d]Since I&#39;m always asked:[/center:1mx1gn4d]
    [center:1mx1gn4d]* * * * * * * * * * * *How&#39;s the weather in FL?[/center:1mx1gn4d]

  18. #38
    Junior Member TheLoneHoot's Avatar
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    Re: Intermatic timer won't turn on/off pump.

    And now a specific reply to OP, Lavaman, if he's still watching this thread by some chance:

    It looks like your timer is a T-100 series, like mine, and that the "ON" trip is silver colored. As I discovered in my post, immediately above, the T-100 series requires the green-ish (tinted) trip. I got a replacement from Ace Hardware for three and a half bucks. Boom - instant fix!

    Worth a try...
    -Austin
    *
    15,000 gal (I think) sort of "hexagonal dogbone" shaped pool built in 1996
    Hayward Super Pump, Cartridge type filter, 1HP motor (new as of 31 August 2013)
    Hayward Aquadroid cleaner (original model) totally rebuilt except for shell in last year or so

    [center:1mx1gn4d]Pool (p?l): n. a hole in the ground into which one throws vast sums of money[/center:1mx1gn4d]


    [center:1mx1gn4d]Since I&#39;m always asked:[/center:1mx1gn4d]
    [center:1mx1gn4d]* * * * * * * * * * * *How&#39;s the weather in FL?[/center:1mx1gn4d]

  19. #39
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    Re: Intermatic timer won't turn on/off pump.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheLoneHoot
    And now a specific reply to OP, Lavaman, if he's still watching this thread by some chance:

    It looks like your timer is a T-100 series, like mine, and that the "ON" trip is silver colored. As I discovered in my post, immediately above, the T-100 series requires the green-ish (tinted) trip. I got a replacement from Ace Hardware for three and a half bucks. Boom - instant fix!

    Worth a try...
    I have a pair of t104p s and early this summer, I bought an additional pair of trippers from my local truvalue. They are both exactly the same (silver) and have worked perfectly since I installed them. They look different than the ones that were there originally, but work just fine.
    Pool size: 24000gal inground Vinyl-Taylor k-2006 and k-1766 test kits and-speed stir
    Intermatic P1353ME digital timer w/freeze sensor
    CircuPool Si-45 SWCG System
    Polaris 280 vacuum/Polaris PB4-60 boost pump
    Pentair IntelliFlo VS 3hp Pump--Pentair sand filter

  20. #40
    Junior Member TheLoneHoot's Avatar
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    Re: Intermatic timer won't turn on/off pump.

    Interesting. Hmmm. Well I guess my solution isn't necessarily THE fix for this problem. Oh well, at $3.49 it's not a bad place to start!
    -Austin
    *
    15,000 gal (I think) sort of "hexagonal dogbone" shaped pool built in 1996
    Hayward Super Pump, Cartridge type filter, 1HP motor (new as of 31 August 2013)
    Hayward Aquadroid cleaner (original model) totally rebuilt except for shell in last year or so

    [center:1mx1gn4d]Pool (p?l): n. a hole in the ground into which one throws vast sums of money[/center:1mx1gn4d]


    [center:1mx1gn4d]Since I&#39;m always asked:[/center:1mx1gn4d]
    [center:1mx1gn4d]* * * * * * * * * * * *How&#39;s the weather in FL?[/center:1mx1gn4d]

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