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Thread: Wiring Question

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Wiring Question

    We will have the following equipment servicing our pool:

    - Variable speed Pentair pump
    - Intellichlor SWG
    - EasyTouch 8
    - 2 Intellibrite lites
    - Triton 2 sand filter (TR100)
    - 400k BTU gas heater
    - Polaris vacuum

    I think that's everything.

    The electric to service the equipment is included in our price, but the electrician is recommending "upgraded wire from 30 to 50 amps" that will add another $410 to the price. Just curious if it is really needed.

    Any experts out there that can tell me if this is worth the extra money?

    TIA...
    Chesterfield, MO
    In Ground vinyl liner pool
    - Lagoon Shape - 40'x30'x20'
    - Intelliflo VS Pump
    - Intellichlor Salt System
    - Triton II Sand Filter
    - Pentair MasterTemp Heater
    - EZ Touch Controller
    - Faux stone water feature with sheer descents
    - Turbo twister slide

  2. Back To Top    #2

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Southern MA
    Posts
    71

    Re: Wiring Question

    You need to know the power draw of all the items to calculate total draw
    That will tell you how close to the 30a you are
    Is there a shed/pool cabana where a sub-panel will be installed ?
    I could have run a 30a to my pool cabana to service my pool
    Instead I ran a 60a 240v service, but I did the work myself
    Including ground rods, sub panel, breakers & wire I think I spent around $3-400
    30 yr old 16x32' IG pool, ~16,600g, Hayward DE 4820 filter w/1.5hp pump, Solar heat

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Re: Wiring Question

    You just don't want the wire to be undersized. If it is a 30 amp breaker feeding your equipment then wire sized for 30 amps is fine. If you have a 50 amp breaker, you need heavier wire that can carry the current. Can you find out the breaker size and gauge of wire?
    Blaine

    50' x 22' 27k gal shotcrete freeform, 2hp 2 sp Pentair Whisperflo, Pool Pilot RC-52 SWCG, Pentair TR 100 sand filter, Polaris 280, 2 Pentair Intellibrite LED lights with controller, french gray plaster, Butterfield U-20 "smoke"integral colored salt finish concrete cantilever deck on one side, flagstone coping on the other.

    My pool build:
    osage-hills-pool-build-t50526.html

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Re: Wiring Question

    My husband tells me that we need to install a breaker. Would you suggest 30 or 50? Does it matter?
    Chesterfield, MO
    In Ground vinyl liner pool
    - Lagoon Shape - 40'x30'x20'
    - Intelliflo VS Pump
    - Intellichlor Salt System
    - Triton II Sand Filter
    - Pentair MasterTemp Heater
    - EZ Touch Controller
    - Faux stone water feature with sheer descents
    - Turbo twister slide

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Southern MA
    Posts
    71

    Re: Wiring Question

    The breaker you are allowed to install depends upon the wire being run
    A 30a breaker usually only requires #10 gauge wire - depending upon the distance
    A 50a breaker I usually use #6 gauge wire - more $$

    For a safe installation & to meet code the breaker size & wire size must match
    30 yr old 16x32' IG pool, ~16,600g, Hayward DE 4820 filter w/1.5hp pump, Solar heat

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Re: Wiring Question

    It depends on what your equipment requires. I don't see a heat pump in your sig, that's usually the big draw. You have to calculate the draw with everything running and see what it is. Also, do you want to oversize in case you want to add some equipment later?

    I suppose what the electrician is saying is that you are going to have 30 amp service, you can upgrade to wire that will carry 50 amps (for a fee obviously). Then if you ever want to add a heat pump or other equipment in the future, you just have to change the breaker and not have to rewire. Or maybe when he says upgrade to 50 amps he is not just meaning wire but breaker and everything to have full 50 amp service. I would ask him to clarify.

    I'm sure there will be a breaker, either in your existing panel or in a new sub panel.
    Blaine

    50' x 22' 27k gal shotcrete freeform, 2hp 2 sp Pentair Whisperflo, Pool Pilot RC-52 SWCG, Pentair TR 100 sand filter, Polaris 280, 2 Pentair Intellibrite LED lights with controller, french gray plaster, Butterfield U-20 "smoke"integral colored salt finish concrete cantilever deck on one side, flagstone coping on the other.

    My pool build:
    osage-hills-pool-build-t50526.html

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Re: Wiring Question

    Yeah, he'll have to install the breaker. I think you're right, he means 30 amp breaker and wire standard or 50 amp breaker and wire for an upgrade fee.

    I've been trying to calculate the draw on everything and it's not easy to figure out, especially for someone like me that doesn't have an electrical background.

    For instance, here's what I see in the wiring portion of the manual for the pump:

    1. Be sure all electrical breakers and switches are turned off before wiring motor.
    2. Be sure that the wiring voltage is 230 VAC 10%.
    3. Use #12 AWG for wire runs up to 100 feet (30.5 meters) and #10 AWG for lengths longer than
    100 feet (30.5 meters). When in doubt use a heavier gauge (larger diameter) wire. Heavier gauge
    will allow the motor to run cooler and more ef? cient.

    I honestly don't know what this means in terms of 30 or 50 amps...
    Chesterfield, MO
    In Ground vinyl liner pool
    - Lagoon Shape - 40'x30'x20'
    - Intelliflo VS Pump
    - Intellichlor Salt System
    - Triton II Sand Filter
    - Pentair MasterTemp Heater
    - EZ Touch Controller
    - Faux stone water feature with sheer descents
    - Turbo twister slide

  8. Back To Top    #8

    Re: Wiring Question

    Just to explain this whole deal: if you have a 30 amp breaker and you try to run more than that through it, the breaker will trip and stop current. This protects your wiring from damage due to too much current which will heat up wires, melt insulation which could cause a fire or short. If you only put wire that can handle 20 amps with a 30 amp breaker, you could possibly run enough current through to damage the wire without tripping the breaker. Thats why it's important to size them correctly. Bigger wire won't hurt and has less resistance but it costs more so you need big enough but going bigger is not necessary.

    Clear as mud?
    Blaine

    50' x 22' 27k gal shotcrete freeform, 2hp 2 sp Pentair Whisperflo, Pool Pilot RC-52 SWCG, Pentair TR 100 sand filter, Polaris 280, 2 Pentair Intellibrite LED lights with controller, french gray plaster, Butterfield U-20 "smoke"integral colored salt finish concrete cantilever deck on one side, flagstone coping on the other.

    My pool build:
    osage-hills-pool-build-t50526.html

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Southern MA
    Posts
    71

    Re: Wiring Question

    The pump will have a specification listing the watts or amps that it uses
    For a dual voltage pump it will list for 120v & 240v
    As an example my pump uses 18.6a at 120v......or 9.3a at 240v

    How far (distance) will the wire be run in feet ?
    I ended up putting a 21 cu ft fridge out in my pool cabana
    I also have enough "extra" power for another pump for a hot tub/spa if I ever build one
    I could also run an AC in my pool cabana if I wanted to

    It all depends on what you want/need & may want or need in the future
    It's easier & less expensive to run the wire once to cover your needs
    30 yr old 16x32' IG pool, ~16,600g, Hayward DE 4820 filter w/1.5hp pump, Solar heat

  10. Back To Top    #10
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,879

    Re: Wiring Question

    Let the electrician worry about wire gauge, distance, amps required, etc. That is what their job is.

    The question they are really asking is: Do you want some extra power available for future use? Given you only have the equipment in the list you posted, 30 amps is more than enough. However if you ever want to add on something new you will need more amps. The upgrade price if you do it now is way way less that what it will cost to upgrade it at some future date. Personally, I would go for the 50 amps circuit now (or even 60 amps) so you have some extra capacity available to add things on later. One obvious possible addition would be connivence outlets somewhere in the general area of the pool, another possibility is lighting in the pool area, or a booster pump powered cleaner. If you think you might ever want something extra later, get the larger electrical service now.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Re: Wiring Question

    Thank you all so much for your help. I think I get the gist of what everyone is saying. Sounds like the $400 is worth the upgrade.
    Chesterfield, MO
    In Ground vinyl liner pool
    - Lagoon Shape - 40'x30'x20'
    - Intelliflo VS Pump
    - Intellichlor Salt System
    - Triton II Sand Filter
    - Pentair MasterTemp Heater
    - EZ Touch Controller
    - Faux stone water feature with sheer descents
    - Turbo twister slide

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Re: Wiring Question

    What Jason said.
    Blaine

    50' x 22' 27k gal shotcrete freeform, 2hp 2 sp Pentair Whisperflo, Pool Pilot RC-52 SWCG, Pentair TR 100 sand filter, Polaris 280, 2 Pentair Intellibrite LED lights with controller, french gray plaster, Butterfield U-20 "smoke"integral colored salt finish concrete cantilever deck on one side, flagstone coping on the other.

    My pool build:
    osage-hills-pool-build-t50526.html

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Klein Tejas
    Posts
    249

    Re: Wiring Question

    I think if you read the installation instructions for your EasyTouch 8 it recommends #4 wire and a 100 amp breaker.

    You may not need that much capacity but sometime in the future someone might want to add equipment and you don't want the service feed undersized.
    Pool is DONE!
    Pentair Intelliflo VS3050
    Pentair Easy Touch 8 + actuators + swg
    Pentair IntelliPH
    Pentair 400btu HD heater
    3- Jandy WaterColor LED's
    Hayward C5030 525sqft cartridge filter
    Waterway spa blower

  14. Back To Top    #14
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,879

    Re: Wiring Question

    The Easy Touch manual recommends using anything from 40 to 125 amps. 125 amps is a hard upper limit, but you can go below 40 amps as long as the total installed load is low enough.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Klein Tejas
    Posts
    249

    Re: Wiring Question

    You're right.

    Page 17 says minimum 40 amps then on the next page they show #4 feeders installed.
    Pool is DONE!
    Pentair Intelliflo VS3050
    Pentair Easy Touch 8 + actuators + swg
    Pentair IntelliPH
    Pentair 400btu HD heater
    3- Jandy WaterColor LED's
    Hayward C5030 525sqft cartridge filter
    Waterway spa blower

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