Guys, i really need someone to help me out here. Our first family pool is under construction and it appears that we've run into a snag.. We've had a good amount of rain over the past week and while they dug the pool out it appears that bottom keeps caving in and crumbling. Yesterday morning the Supervisor tells me there might be additional charges to bring in more gravel and or concrete, i asked how much money it would cost and he doesn't know. I come home that afternoon to find that he's brought in more gravel and apparently 8 yrds of concrete to stabilize the bottom and sides, he still doesn't have a price for me and our contract (which i never signed) says that any additional work has to be mutually agreed upon. I mean am i responsible for them digging when it was too wet or shouldn't they have planned for the rain? I don't want to be a jerk about this stuff but I'm paying 35K for a pool and to add hundreds to possibly thousands to the bottom line doesn't seem right. Has anyone had a similar case. I'm on a tight budget, if i have to pay for these changes i will most likely have to loose some of extra concrete i've planned for or the brick paver coping. I haven't signed the contract like i've stated but i have issued 2 payments.
PROBLEMS WITH CONSTRUCTION
- Thread starter rndog43
- Start date
Just try to talk it out, he can't control the weather and he doesn't know whats underground (they could of hit a 10 foot boulder when trying to dig your pool). Anyways what I'm trying to say is you will get more flies with honey instead of vinegar. Don't even bring up not signing the contract as if you tried to use that as your defense you'll just end up paying lawyers twice anything you'd save in pool building costs taking that route. Sometimes the unexpected happens and you should always factor that into your budget. I would just try to be as nice to the guy as you can kill him with kindness as in my own case I find myself giving freebies to the customers who are exceptionally nice and not annoying.
On a side note, do you have underground water issues in the area? If you do I would attempt to build in drainage around the pool to keep water away from the pool. Having underground water really messes up the liner and just degrades the lifespan of the bottom and pool walls (assuming they are metal).
On a side note, do you have underground water issues in the area? If you do I would attempt to build in drainage around the pool to keep water away from the pool. Having underground water really messes up the liner and just degrades the lifespan of the bottom and pool walls (assuming they are metal).
DBfan187 said:
This attitude ranks up there with "I never signed it, nyah, ntah". You are in an agreement with this person and neither of you wants it to go south - try to explain to the next builder why the last one left in the middle of the project - see how quickly they can remember they have somewhere else to be.
You had a wonderful plan which assumed a heck of a lot if you think this is all on the builder - he cannot know how much of what it's going to take to get a stable bottom. If he were to go by the book, he could point out that your plan called for x amount of crushed stone and y amount of concrete - and it's not his fault your yard ate all of them without producing a usable floor.
Then you both go running to the lawyers and you end up... where?
Ask if delaying the project long enough for the ground to dry is a possibility. If, in fact, you have an underground spring 20' down, forget pool builders - you are going to need pilings driven until you have something solid to hang a few thousand tons of water on.
Time to pass out lemonade and cookies to all and discuss what they have found and what their best guess is as to the cause. If it turns out they are just pouring in more and more stuff and still don't know where it's going, you may want to ask about filling in the big hole and erecting an above ground
At this point, youR builder is your friend. If he handles the problem right, you'll enjoy many years of a trouble free pool. If you don't allow him to address the problem, due to budget overruns or a souring relationship, you may be left with legacy problems. So I'd be inclined to agree to the shoring up, but also request some additional analysis of site conditions now that they've dug.
For example, if the site is a natural "catch basin" (like mine is, at the bottom of a terrace) or the ground water is higher than originally expected, digging a sump in the deep end and then connecting it to your pool pump is an awesome plan, because you then have an easy way to pump off high volumes in a heavy set of rains. This cost more (maybe it's already in your contract) but ultimately prevents your liner from floating. We also have a French drain around the perimeter that ties in with dual French drains on either side of our house. This further diverts storm water and helps reduce risk.
Try to view this event as an opportunity to make sure the hydrogeological engineering is in order, despite the financial implications. You could ask your builder if there are other parts of the contract where you can save money to make certain the core foundation is sound, offer to contribute some of the labor to compensate, or otherwise try to find resolution. The builder's integrity is also on the line, but I suspect you'll get further with a gracious team disposition than an adversarial one.
For example, if the site is a natural "catch basin" (like mine is, at the bottom of a terrace) or the ground water is higher than originally expected, digging a sump in the deep end and then connecting it to your pool pump is an awesome plan, because you then have an easy way to pump off high volumes in a heavy set of rains. This cost more (maybe it's already in your contract) but ultimately prevents your liner from floating. We also have a French drain around the perimeter that ties in with dual French drains on either side of our house. This further diverts storm water and helps reduce risk.
Try to view this event as an opportunity to make sure the hydrogeological engineering is in order, despite the financial implications. You could ask your builder if there are other parts of the contract where you can save money to make certain the core foundation is sound, offer to contribute some of the labor to compensate, or otherwise try to find resolution. The builder's integrity is also on the line, but I suspect you'll get further with a gracious team disposition than an adversarial one.
Thank you everyone for the feedback, Just to be clear i never intended to play the (i didn't sign the contract card) I understand sometimes things come up that you can't anticipate but at the same time i should have been presented with change order cost or estimates before these guys started pumping concrete in there. I am glad that this is being resolved now but was there a more cost effective alternative we could have used? The contract speaks to charges to control ground water (450 for gravel) (225 well point) (280 for sand) but none of them include concrete. Its not stated in this contract but don't most PB add a cost for controlling ground water regardless if they have to or not? I know their slated to start another job this week and my gut is concrete while effective was the quickest fix.
Lack of communication is the root of this problem, the owner is in Haiti helping underprivilege kids and should be back Monday so i've had to deal with the job Supervisor, nice guy but not the most informative guy. The owner and i have had a good relationship thus far. I'm hoping for a split cost on this... we live in a new residential area and we're the first to install a pool and i know he wants to get all the business he can here.
i should have planned for overages but i didn't, lessoned learned! Anyone have an idea of what 8yrds of concrete goes for in Virginia?
Lack of communication is the root of this problem, the owner is in Haiti helping underprivilege kids and should be back Monday so i've had to deal with the job Supervisor, nice guy but not the most informative guy. The owner and i have had a good relationship thus far. I'm hoping for a split cost on this... we live in a new residential area and we're the first to install a pool and i know he wants to get all the business he can here.
i should have planned for overages but i didn't, lessoned learned! Anyone have an idea of what 8yrds of concrete goes for in Virginia?
I think most contract state that ground water and unforeseen issues when digging will be extra. The prices you listed seem extremely reasonable to me for stone, well point, sand.
Just lIke a mechanic should never do any work without contacting the owner with an estimate, at least, neither should a PB. I don't understand why they can't give you a ballpark of what the extra cost is going to be? (I got the feeling that was part of your concern....)
Hey everyone, just wanted to report that the PB and i sat down with some cookies and lemonade and came to an amicable agreement. He's taking care of the concrete and i'm taking care of the extra stone. Nobody was at fault here the culprit was the rain. Hydrological and geological conditions are good no threat of a floating liner. Vermiculite bottom went in today, liner on Thursday with a backfill scheduled for Friday... i think i might be swimming this weekend barring any setbacks from the rain. My wife tells me all the time that i need to trust people more; i always think someone is trying to get over on me. I'm very grateful to all of you who chimed in and talked me down from off the ledge. I don't think it would have gone so smooth if i were confrontational. Hope to have some pictures soon :-D