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Thread: my first tests

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    my first tests

    (Johhny B of TFP is here to help me so that should help but please verify)

    8/14/2012
    Just discovered the BBB & TFP- Thanks guys!
    Test kit hasn’t yet arrived. Been using pucks so we expect CYA to be high & expect to lower the water level, but we need the test kit.
    Water is cloudy, can't see the bottom, a few days ago added some Clear-n Bright garbage per Leslies advise- we’re done with Leslies from now on.

    pH < 6.8; assume 6.8; so added120 oz ( 7.5 lbs) soda ash; re-tested 30 minutes later & pH was 7.2
    OTO yellow (FC or TC?) 1.5; added 355 oz bleach, will likely need to shock etc, but just did this to hopefully prevent an algae bloom
    TA 80

    8/15/2012
    Test kit hasn’t yet arrived.
    Water is less cloudy & can now see the bottom in the shallow half of the pool.
    pH 7.2, we know it's low but we expect CYA to be high & expect to have to lower the water level, so re-filling with tap water will affect the pH & we’ll adjust the pH first thing after the re-fill if indeed we have to re-fill.
    Added 182 oz bleach in am & again in pm, just did this to hopefully prevent an algae bloom.

    8/16/2012
    Using friends TFT test kit
    CYA > 100, about half the distance between the bottom of the tube & the 100 mark, so quite a way
    Per the calc will lower water 60% & will take new tests then, Sound good?
    22,000 gallons, 3-8ft depth, rectangle, in ground, vinyl lined, 1HP pump, sand filter(30 gal?) too small but future problem to solve

  2. Back To Top    #2
    linen's Avatar
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    Re: my first tests

    Welcome to tfp, Kellyb

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellyb
    CYA > 100, about half the distance between the bottom of the tube & the 100 mark, so quite a way
    Per the calc will lower water 60% & will take new tests then, Sound good?
    If you still have the kit do a 50/50 pool water to cya free dilution and repeat the test. Multiply your result by 2.

    You may need more than a 60% change (although that is a good start), but always leave at least 1 ft of water in your shallow end.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: my first tests

    can you please explain that test w some detail?
    We will do it once we know how & post the results.
    Ran into a glitch on the lowereing- drain doesn't work, only the skimmer, so will soon get a sump pump going, won't be till later today till we get the water level lowered, right now its lowered maybe 5-10%.
    The 60% we calculated will leave 15 inches in the shallow end, but we really appreciate you telling us.

    Once we lower to the proper level, is there any advantage to adding "some" bleach to keep things at bay & lessen the shocking process, or, don't waste your time

    Thanks
    19,800 gallons (closed/winter 18,654 gal); plaster; 18x34 Ft kidney bean shape, Depth 3Ft-5Ft. Built 1992
    Pentair Whisper Flow Pump 1HP. Winter safety cover w anchors.
    Sand filter, Pentair Sand Dollar Top Mount Model SD80; Effective Filtration Area 3.5SF
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    Re: my first tests

    50% tap water & 50% pool water, same amnt of R-0013?
    19,800 gallons (closed/winter 18,654 gal); plaster; 18x34 Ft kidney bean shape, Depth 3Ft-5Ft. Built 1992
    Pentair Whisper Flow Pump 1HP. Winter safety cover w anchors.
    Sand filter, Pentair Sand Dollar Top Mount Model SD80; Effective Filtration Area 3.5SF
    - FlowRate 75GPM, 8Hr 36,000, 10Hr 45,000, 12Hr 54,000; Pressure Weight 50PSI
    BBB (Hayward Chlorinator when leave town). Polaris 360 cleaner.

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    Re: my first tests

    We did the 50/40 test as I discribed. THis time the reading is still a 100, but it's far closer to the 100 mark , I woudl say 5/6 the distance from the bottom of the tube. but we multiplied by 2, so that woudl be 200? right???
    The calculator states from 200 to 40 to lower to 80%, so that's what I am doing.
    We will be sure to not let the shallow end get below 12 inches
    Please advise if I need to do something different.
    22,000 gallons, 3-8ft depth, rectangle, in ground, vinyl lined, 1HP pump, sand filter(30 gal?) too small but future problem to solve

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: my first tests

    Well, given that result, you may be even higher than 200ppm. You can only drain as much as possible and not get too low. Then fill it up and re-do the 50/50 test. You will then have to likely drain and refill 1 or 2 more times to get the CYA in range.

    This will be a lesson to keep an eye on the stabilizer level
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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  7. Back To Top    #7

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    Re: my first tests

    getting CYA to 50means lowering 70% & that is abot 12 inches from the bottom, we will go w that. Maybe afrter we add a foot of tap water we will stir & re-lower a few inches,
    Johhny's pool does OK at a CYA 50
    22,000 gallons, 3-8ft depth, rectangle, in ground, vinyl lined, 1HP pump, sand filter(30 gal?) too small but future problem to solve

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: my first tests

    Sure 50ppm is fine ... I was simply saying your might be higher than 200ppm ... So a 75% water change may not result in being at 50ppm. Do the 75% change and then retest (probably do not need the 50/50 method) and see where you end up ... make sure you let the water circulate for at least a few hours before testing.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Re: my first tests

    8/18/2012
    We lowered the water level to 12 inches deep on the shallow and, which we estimate to be about 65% water. Then we added 7 more inches of tap water, and re-tested the CYA both methods (usual and 50/50) & the CYA is still over 100 but I guess we’re getting better, the 50-50 method indicated that CYA was 180.
    With 19 inches in the shallow end (12 original +7 tap water inches), we again lowered the water level for a second time back down to about 12 inches; and are refilling the pool with tap water. Our next step will be to retest the CYA once the water level gets to ideal depth (as it relates to the skimmer). If the CYA is still out of range/too high as we expect, then we will continue to add tap water actually beyond ideal level because the pool does allow 3 to 5 inches of overfill without spilling over onto the deck and actually has about an inch or two to spare before that even happens. We will then be sure the water re-circulates for a few hours then resume the "draining some water and refilling with tap water ”. As I mentioned, the drain does not work and so we can only lower the water level through the skimmer which is another reason we want to overfill (unless we go and rent the pump again); this means that we are only dealing with 6-8 inches at a time when we speak of lowering and refilling; so that is going to take some time.

    So we have the following questions:
    1- what is the highest CYA level we should feel comfortable dealing with this BBB method. We know the recommended range is 20 - 40, is 50 okay, 60, 70?

    2- is there any advantage to adding "some" bleach to keep things at bay & lessen the shocking process, or, don't waste your time. If yes then how much bleach do you want us to add.

    Thanks
    19,800 gallons (closed/winter 18,654 gal); plaster; 18x34 Ft kidney bean shape, Depth 3Ft-5Ft. Built 1992
    Pentair Whisper Flow Pump 1HP. Winter safety cover w anchors.
    Sand filter, Pentair Sand Dollar Top Mount Model SD80; Effective Filtration Area 3.5SF
    - FlowRate 75GPM, 8Hr 36,000, 10Hr 45,000, 12Hr 54,000; Pressure Weight 50PSI
    BBB (Hayward Chlorinator when leave town). Polaris 360 cleaner.

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    Re: my first tests

    8/19/2012
    CYA 100 so will lower the water 50% per the calc; will take several days because no drain, so 6 inch increments.

    can someone please estimate how many gallons 1 inch would be>
    22,000 gallons, 3-8ft depth, rectangle, in ground, vinyl lined, 1HP pump, sand filter(30 gal?) too small but future problem to solve

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: my first tests

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellyb
    8/19/2012
    CYA 100 so will lower the water 50% per the calc; will take several days because no drain, so 6 inch increments.

    can someone please estimate how many gallons 1 inch would be>
    Give us some dimensions. Is it a plain rectangle, or is it rounded at the ends?

    The math isn't all that hard. 7.48 gallons/cubic foot or 231 cubic inches/gallon.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
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    Re: my first tests

    It is a plain rectangle not rounded at the ends, but it is rounded along the entire floor. We will get the dimensions later
    Richard, I am sorry for not responding sooner.

    We are up and running without much of a problem here.
    Things were stable as of about 8/25/2012
    pH7.5
    FC5
    CC0.5 then went to 0.0 in a few days
    TA60, TA is now 90 & ph & TA are holding wonderfully
    CH125 ( vinyl)
    CYA60

    Couple of questions
    1- we just want to be sure that the CH of 125 is okay, pool school says for vinyl pools CH 50-300 so I guess so?

    2a- recommended levels chart states “TA 70-90+”; how much higher than 90 is acceptable just for our information/education in case we overshoot the TA one day; most vinyl pool owners have found TA70 -90 the good, correct?

    2b-- we are soon to install a poolSkim. The design of the pool is such that we would like to have the poolSkim direct the surface water in a clockwise direction instead of a counterclockwise direction. Am I correct that it makes no difference whether the water gets directed clockwise or counter clockwise? I would not think so but I know there are some obscure things related whether you're North or South of the equator & every pool I have ever seen is counterclockwise. I don't know if it makes a difference or not but, the drain is not functioning.

    3- as we say, the drain does not functioning so the entire turnover results from a single skimmer which is quite close to the 1 hp pump fortunately. Can anyone make some suggestions to us on troubleshooting this nonfunctioning drain or point us to some links for some troubleshooting on this nonfunctioning drain. I will say that the multi port valve turns with great difficulty and you have the feeling that it is going to break every time you rotate it. I mention this in hopes that perhaps it may be recommended to look at the multiport valve instead of the drain on the bottom of the pool. All suggestions welcomed.

    4- Kelly reports that the pool has never been winterized/closed in about 25 years and it does not have a heater. It did run almost 24/7 on severely cold days. Everyone in Charlotte that I know of without a heater closes their pools for the winter. I guess I cannot argue with the past 25 years and we have had some prolonged severe cold days. Any comments appreciated

    thanks
    19,800 gallons (closed/winter 18,654 gal); plaster; 18x34 Ft kidney bean shape, Depth 3Ft-5Ft. Built 1992
    Pentair Whisper Flow Pump 1HP. Winter safety cover w anchors.
    Sand filter, Pentair Sand Dollar Top Mount Model SD80; Effective Filtration Area 3.5SF
    - FlowRate 75GPM, 8Hr 36,000, 10Hr 45,000, 12Hr 54,000; Pressure Weight 50PSI
    BBB (Hayward Chlorinator when leave town). Polaris 360 cleaner.

  13. Back To Top    #13
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: my first tests

    1 - No problem with low CH in vinyl pool
    2a - TA just buffers the Ph, the higher it is, the fast the pH will rise. The recommended levels are to slow the rise.
    2b - CW will fight the coriolis effect in the northern hemisphere, but will not cause a problem
    3 - Not sure if you are actually describing a muilt-port valve (on the filter) or a 3-way valve before the pump. The filter has nothing to do with the floor drain. Do you have multiple pipes from the pool before the pump or just 1 from the skimmer? The main drain could be plumbed to the bottom of the skimmer or directly to the pad or tied into the pipe from the skimmer underground.
    4 - Is the drain capped at the bottom? If the pool was never winterized, perhaps the pipe broke and then was capped.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: my first tests

    I'm in Charlotte, my plan is minimal winterizing, ground does not freeze below surface here.

    -sent with Tapatalk 2
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
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    Re: my first tests

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    3 - Not sure if you are actually describing a muilt-port valve (on the filter) or a 3-way valve before the pump.
    a muilt-port valve on the filter

    The filter has nothing to do with the floor drain.
    in my pool I am able to draw water from both the skimmer and the drain by use of a valve before the filter; Kelly does not have such a valve. We noticed that when we were attempting to lower the water level that it was sucking air once the water level got below the skimmer; we had it on backwash. I'm pretty sure that once we stopped the pump, we tried the waste setting and still no water was going to waste; we shut the pump off quickly to avoid burning out the motor
    Do you have multiple pipes from the pool before the pump or just 1 from the skimmer?
    I think just one from the skimmer but I will double check again the next time I am there

    The main drain could be plumbed to the bottom of the skimmer or directly to the pad or tied into the pipe from the skimmer underground.
    if this is the case, then there is no way to drain water to waste except that little bit above the skimmer? She must always go and rent the pump?
    4 - Is the drain capped at the bottom?
    The drain looks normal to me, not capped
    If the pool was never winterized, perhaps the pipe broke and then was capped.
    that is a good suggestion, I will look for a capped pipe at the pad



    19,800 gallons (closed/winter 18,654 gal); plaster; 18x34 Ft kidney bean shape, Depth 3Ft-5Ft. Built 1992
    Pentair Whisper Flow Pump 1HP. Winter safety cover w anchors.
    Sand filter, Pentair Sand Dollar Top Mount Model SD80; Effective Filtration Area 3.5SF
    - FlowRate 75GPM, 8Hr 36,000, 10Hr 45,000, 12Hr 54,000; Pressure Weight 50PSI
    BBB (Hayward Chlorinator when leave town). Polaris 360 cleaner.

  16. Back To Top    #16
    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: my first tests

    If main drain is connected to the skimmer there is a device that can be used to allow the main drain to work when water is below skimmer. Also try using the vac hose in the skimmer dropped in deep water.


    - Sent using Tapatalk
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: my first tests

    Although, the float diverter in the skimmer are not air tight once the water gets below the skimmer. You would be able to continue to pull water from the floor, but you will also likely get air leaking in from the skimmer.

    If the floor is not plumbed directly to the pad, the safest method is to rent or buy a cheap submersible pump ... Although how often is this really going to be required?

    Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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