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Thread: Mt pH is driving me crazy!!!

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    Mt pH is driving me crazy!!!

    I can't seem to get my pH below 8. the pool is crystal clear, other chemistry seems to be fine:
    FC 5.0 today (2.5-5.0 over last 2 months), cc 0.5, PH 8.2 (>8 last 2 months), TA 130 (110-130), cya 45 (25-50). salt- 2775-3250

    I've added over 4 gallons of 14.5% liquid HCL. at first more slowly, but a gallon at a time the last 2 times a week apart. I bought it at different stores at different times, so doubt it could be bad acid.

    the salt has been stable, so I doubt there is a leak. The pool does attract a lot of bugs, and I do have a dog who occasionally goes on the sun shelf.

    Why can I not get the pH in a good range? or should I just not worry about it?
    16 K gal pool & spa, concrete (pebblefina), Jandy aquapure SWG, Jandy pda-PS3, PV3 infloor cleaning. built 2011, scottsdale,az

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Mt pH is driving me crazy!!!

    Anything above 8.2 will show that level, so you may be very high. You should certainly worry about and get it down in range or risk scaling in the pool (what is your CH? likely very high given your location). Keep adding muriatic acid and it will certainly come down to within range eventually.

    That your CYA is pretty low for a SWG pool ... especially in the AZ sun. I would recommend bringing it up to 70-80ppm and then maintaining the FC around 6ppm. This will allow the SWG to work less to overcome the sun and prolong the life of your SWG cell.

    Also note, that SWG and other aeration (spa overflow?) causes the pH to rise. By lowering the TA closer to 70ppm, you can slow how fast the pH goes up. Here are our recommended levels: Recommended Levels
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Mt pH is driving me crazy!!!

    ah, an answer- The spa overflow only runs for a while at night, but I have a water wall fountain running 24/7. that may be my problem.
    16 K gal pool & spa, concrete (pebblefina), Jandy aquapure SWG, Jandy pda-PS3, PV3 infloor cleaning. built 2011, scottsdale,az

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Mt pH is driving me crazy!!!

    The waterfall in conjunction with the SWG will certainly cause the pH to continually rise. It is not uncommon to have to add acid to stay in the pH range every couple days.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Mt pH is driving me crazy!!!

    In general, the advice here is to just tend to the pH and let the TA sort itself out over time.

    You will need to lower that TA, it is high and that is driving the pH. You can do that fast or you can do that slow.

    To do it slow, just keep adding muriatic acid each time the pH is above 7.8, add enough to push it down to 7.3-ish. (At some point retest after an hour circulation just to be sure you are hitting your mark on the adjustment.) That may be every day at first. Bear with it. Each time you do this you are lowering the TA by just a bit. maybe 2 or 3 ppm, so wait until you have done it 3 or 4 times to retest TA, any sooner and you won't be able to measure the difference. You must monitor the TA as you adjust it for if you cut TA by 50% (for example) then you need 50% less acid to create the same pH change. So since you do not want ph to go so low that it damages things, you pay attention to what the Pool Calculator says you need to use to reduce pH from this to that give a specific TA.

    Keep going, keep going, and one day you will be at a TA of 90, 80, 70 somewhere between 80 and 60 the pH will stabilize. If your tap water has high TA then every time you add water the TA rises and the fight goes on. Don't go below TA of 60, pH gets unstable.

    To lower TA fast, push the pH down to 7.2 and aerate the pool A LOT, turn on the fountain, the waterfall, the spa, whatever. That agitation drives the pH up so you can do it again sooner. IMO, having done it both ways, it is the SAME amount of work, just over a longer or shorter period. Not worth the effort IMO. And you have to test TA all the time this way, not just once a week or so. So more testing, same work, same results.
    23,000 gallon in ground pool with rock waterfall and spillover spa, Aqualink control system, Polaris 380 cleaner, Purex Triton Clean&Clear Plus cartridge filter. Located in The Woodlands, Texas.

    Pool owner since Nov 2008, Trouble Free since April 2009. Happy to help when I can.

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    Re: Mt pH is driving me crazy!!!

    thanks,
    I was wondering how to lower the TA.
    Although it brings up another question out of curiosity. I'm supposed to aerate to raise the ph without raising the TA, correct? I thought my original issue on why I couldn't raise the PH was because of all the aeration I was doing I had driven the PH up. If so then why do I have so much TA? I ,of course, have never added baking soda.
    16 K gal pool & spa, concrete (pebblefina), Jandy aquapure SWG, Jandy pda-PS3, PV3 infloor cleaning. built 2011, scottsdale,az

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Mt pH is driving me crazy!!!

    Aeration only raises the pH ... it does not affect the TA.

    You TA is really not that high ... test your tap water ... that is where the TA came from. Some tap water is over 300ppm TA.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Mt pH is driving me crazy!!!

    First, My pH must have been much higher than I thought. I added 1/2 gal of 31.45% HCL and am at 7.8 today. I feel good I'm in a measurable range and will keep working it down.

    I measured the water from the hose bib- TA is 140. so the only way to lower the TA is adding acid?
    16 K gal pool & spa, concrete (pebblefina), Jandy aquapure SWG, Jandy pda-PS3, PV3 infloor cleaning. built 2011, scottsdale,az

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Mt pH is driving me crazy!!!

    Yes. Although it will naturally drop as you adjust and keep the pH in range. TA is not really something you need to focus on.

    Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: Mt pH is driving me crazy!!!

    so the only way to lower the TA is adding acid?
    The only way to correctly lower TA is found in the How to article up in Pool School.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: Mt pH is driving me crazy!!!

    got the PH to 7.3, 2 days later it was > 8 again (fountain and 3 water jets on). going to have to stay on this.
    16 K gal pool & spa, concrete (pebblefina), Jandy aquapure SWG, Jandy pda-PS3, PV3 infloor cleaning. built 2011, scottsdale,az

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Mt pH is driving me crazy!!!

    Yup ... likely should be checking pH daily with that much aeration.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Mt pH is driving me crazy!!!

    I've got one waterfall from my hot tub into the pool and an swg and I go through close to a gallon of muriatic acid each week. The small price to pay. That's just about all I add throughout the year except for a little salt and CH additions at the beginning and sometimes some CYA additions, but only once a year for those. pH always drifts to about 8.0 if you don't add MA once every 2-3 days for my pool. Part of maintenance of the pool in my opinion. Sure is much easier than getting gallons of chlorine each week.
    18 x 36 Inground Gunnite, White Plaster 21K gallon
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    Re: Mt pH is driving me crazy!!!

    @anonapersona - thanks for the perspective of either going slow or fast regarding TA. I was hoping to just take my TA down more slowly rather than target a lower number and go through the continuous aeration with hand-crafted aeration device or run waterfall motors till energy bill is even higher approaches. I'm at TA 200 or so and it has come down a bit over the last week as I've tried to balance the water after my refill....
    Outdoor IG Plaster Pool @18,000 gallons
    Cartridge Filter: Jandy CL580 (filter area 580 ft2, Max Flow 150 gpm, 6-hr capacity 54,000g)
    Pool Built est. 2002

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    Re: Mt pH is driving me crazy!!!

    @XsAllOverIt thanks for letting me know I'm not crazy. I would think needing to add acid every 3 day I was doing something wrong. I do like the sound and sight of the fountain running continuously, budget be ****ed.
    16 K gal pool & spa, concrete (pebblefina), Jandy aquapure SWG, Jandy pda-PS3, PV3 infloor cleaning. built 2011, scottsdale,az

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    Re: Mt pH is driving me crazy!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by XsAllOverIt
    I've got one waterfall from my hot tub into the pool and an swg and I go through close to a gallon of muriatic acid each week. The small price to pay. That's just about all I add throughout the year except for a little salt and CH additions at the beginning and sometimes some CYA additions, but only once a year for those. pH always drifts to about 8.0 if you don't add MA once every 2-3 days for my pool. Part of maintenance of the pool in my opinion. Sure is much easier than getting gallons of chlorine each week.
    This is very similar to my experience. I have a spill over spa (but the top of the spa is even with the pool) and a SWG and I add about a gallon of MA every two weeks or so.
    9,200 gal. Gunite Luna Quartz French Grey pool with spill over spa, two fountains on tanning ledge (rarely used)
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