What chemicals do I need now?

[Deaner]

I finally got my pool water tested again. Here are the findings from ALEX:
CYA: 150
Total Chlorine/Free Chlorine: 0
Ph: < 6.2
TA: 80
Adj. TA: 35
Total Hardness: 84
Copper: .1
TDS: 800

Water is crystal clear. No black or mustard algae or slime/mold. Sand filter changed on 6/30/12. Water looks/feels good. I don't wish to use expensive pool store chemicals such as Balance Pak 100 (they said I need 58 pounds @ $18.15 per). Instead, I'm thinking I can drive up TA and Ph with 20 mule team borax and/or baking soda. In fact, I slurried 12 pounds of borax in a bucket and put that in the pool earlier today. Any thoughts on what next?

 

[jblizzle]

Actually the first thing you have to decide is what you are going to do about your CYA. With a CYA of 150ppm (questionable as most test only go up to 100ppm and pool stores (if that is what ALEX is) are notoriously bad at it), you minimum required FC is 11ppm ... anything below that an algae can start to grow. Now here are 2 problems with that:
1. Most chlorine tests do not go that high ... you need the FAS-DPD test ... actually I would recommend you get your self one of the recommended test kits anyway and test everything for yourself before doing anything.
2. The pH test is not valid when FC > 10ppm.

Solution:
Drain at least 2/3 of the pool and refill to lower the CYA into the recommended range of 30-50ppm ... caution as you may not be able to drain that much all at once without issues.

Other thoughts:
Get you pH up in the 7s using borax or soda ash/washing soda. Baking soda only really raises the TA and yours is fine at 80ppm.
Stop putting anything in your pool that contains copper.
With 0 chlorine and high CYA, your pool likely already has stuff growing in it.

 

[Deaner]

The pool is sparkling and according to the printout from ALEX, which is the computer analysis used at the pool store that tested my water sample, there is no algae, slime or mold. I concur.

The computer also puts my CYA in the ideal range (they say 30-200 is ideal). But someone please tell me ... What's the difference between Total Alkalinity (mine is 80) and Adj. Total Alk (mine is 35)? My printout states 125-150 is the ideal Adj. TA.

Unless someone tells me this is foolish, I'm considering boosting Ph and TA with about 24 pounds each of Borax and Baking Soda. I did the Borax this afternoon, and will do soda tomorrow. After that, I will dump some 3 jugs or more of 96 oz. of bleach (6 % active ingredient that I think is sodium hypochlrite, right?). That should adress the dearth of chlorine, right?

 

[jblizzle]

Ok, I recant my previous state about the first decision you have to make ... it is not what to do about CYA ...
it is deciding if you are going to trust the pool store computer (how does it know there is no algae on the walls or in a pipe from just a water sample???) or the advice you can get here.

To be blunt, if you are going to try to use both ... things are going to be confusing and it will waste yours and our time.

You stated you wanted to save money. You can find all the information about the recommended pool chemicals here:
Recommended Pool Chemicals

And our recommended levels here:
Recommended Levels

Feel free to read through the rest of Pool School for more information, but we can not offer good advice based on those test results. And we do not want to compete with what the pool store is telling you.

If you believe the test results. You need to:
raise pH
lower CYA
raise FC

All three are actually pretty important.

Using bleach is a great choice, but to raise from 0 to 15ppm (to be safely over the 11ppm minimum), you will actually need 9 gallons (~12 96oz bottles) ... and then be adding about 3 bottles per day to keep it there (assuming normal 2-4ppm losses per day ... assuming your water has nothing growing in it). You have a big pool, so it is going to take a lot of chlorine.

 

[duraleigh]

Any thoughts on what next?

read "The ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry" up in Pool School. That starts with the basics that we teach here at TFP. Once you get a really good understanding of the basics, we can help you get your pool back where it needs to be....it is badly out of whack.

If you choose not to follow the advice given here, that is obviously your choice but we will not be able to help you.

 

[mynewpool]

I am going to give my opinion to you Deaner.

I was just like you and trusted the pool store becuase they are PRO'S right. Boy was I more wrong listening to them. I tried what they told me and my pool water kept keeping green. Once I found this site I followed the stuff here and got my water from green to clear. Just because the water is clear and looks great, there can still be stuff growing in there that you cant see Personally myself I would follow the advice given here.

Here is where my pool started and where it ended up after listening to the advice here.

my-journey-from-green-to-crystal-clear-t20117.html?hilit=green

Following only the advice here and not the pool store and testing my water at home my pool still looks like this.

who-is-ready-to-swim-t29479.html?hilit=ready

 

[Deaner]

I don't mean to be disrespectul to anyone. But I'm trying to sort through various feedback and determine for myself what's best. Frankly, when the first bit of advice I get is to lower the CYA, when the ALEX system tells me it's ideal ... I'd say that's a rough start as far as who to trust. I will continue to do my research, but based on the numbers provided by the store and the chemicals necessary to boost ph and/or TA, I don't see how I can go wrong with throwing borax and baking soda in the deep end. Jason, I like your advice about specific quantities of bleach to add. Thanks.

 

[Deaner]

Oh ... Does it matter if I add bleach prior to boosting ph and ta, or after?

 

[jblizzle]

You can use the poolcalculator, link in my signature, to make all those calculations for yourself.

Usually we say pH before FC ... after the CYA is in range. But in your case, they are all pretty far off and important to fix.

Remember you can not test pH once you have the FC where we recommended.

Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short

 

[mpacheco72]

And why would ALEX lie? It couldn't be because the pool store can make thousands of dollars off of you, could it? No one here is trying to sell you anything. They don't have a vested interest. They are just trying to help you maintain your pool in the most cost effective, accurate method there is.

 

[Mesamav]

I finally got my pool water tested again. Here are the findings from ALEX:
CYA: 150
Total Chlorine/Free Chlorine: 0
Ph: < 6.2
TA: 80
Adj. TA: 35
Total Hardness: 84
Copper: .1
TDS: 800

Water is crystal clear. No black or mustard algae or slime/mold. Sand filter changed on 6/30/12. Water looks/feels good. I don't wish to use expensive pool store chemicals such as Balance Pak 100 (they said I need 58 pounds @ $18.15 per). Instead, I'm thinking I can drive up TA and Ph with 20 mule team borax and/or baking soda. In fact, I slurried 12 pounds of borax in a bucket and put that in the pool earlier today. Any thoughts on what next?

That should tell you something right there. 58 lbs at $18.15 per lb equals $1052.70. That sounds crazy just to clear your water. Even if that's a typo and it's 5.8 lbs, it's still well over $100.00.
I was in your position a little over a year ago. I bought a house and I never owned a pool. I fought my pool all last summer. It went green like 3 or 4 times. I found this site but I didn't listen. I did it the pool store way and it cost me big time and what the pool store recommended typically didn't fix many of my water problems.
Once I finally decided to try what they recommended on this site, my water has never looked better. These guys don't want to sell you anything and they know what they're talking about. They have no reason to lead you astray. Do what they recommend and I assure you, your pool will be in great shape in no time.
Good luck to you whatever you decide to do.

 

[march2012]

Deaner, do a search for pool store on the forum to read about lack of pool store consistency of measurement.

1) Pool stores hire low dollar employees. They generally dont know what they are doing
2) Automated testing equipment requires good calibration (see 1) to be accurate. The equipment is rarely calibrated properly.
3) testing your own water is the only way you can get reliable daily readings.

Pool stores have no clue about the relationship between CYA and chlorine. CYA stabilizes chlorine from the sun so you use less chlorine daily However as your CYA goes up you need a higher level of chlorine in the pool. High CYA is the #1 reason why people lose control of their pools then come on here.

I repeat: Pool stores have no clue about the relationship between CYA and chlorine.

Your target CYA should be about 30-50. choose the higher end if you get a lot of sun (the CYA protects chlorine from the sun).

Basically your pool is a ticking timebomb (assuming the pool store measurements are correct)

You arent alone though, I own a condo in a condo complex. The water is a bit milky in color. I measured the CYA at over 200 and the FC was at 38 or so. I flagged this to the president who had the manager take a sample to the pool store. The pool store measured CYA at 50 and FC at 5+. The president even had the pool store employee sign the paper as if it meant anything. They then scanned the paper and published it to the condo complex web site. It doesnt change the fact that the CYA is over 200 and the pool is getting to the point where it is unmaintainable.