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Thread: Help for new guy

  1. Back To Top    #1

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    Help for new guy

    Hello. I am new to the forum and am very grateful for it. I've had a pool for most of my life but finally decided to take the plunge to manage my own pool after a bad experience with a pool man.
    I just got my TF-100 and here are my readings:

    FC - 1.5 (just added ~ 60oz. @10% liquid chlorine in the morning)
    CC - 0.5
    pH - 7.4 (my estimate, definitely lower than 7.5 but higher than the middle of 7.2 to 7.5)
    TA - 250
    CH - 600+ (I stopped after 60 drops - I ran this test twice systematically)
    CYA - 100+ (definitely over 100 as I did this test numerous times)

    WTH with that TA, CH and CYA readings!!!!
    I started getting algae about 1 month ago. The pool man was useless. After I nixed him I started adding about 1/2 gallon of liquid every night for a week and kept the FC about 1.5 or so until I got my TF-100. My pool gets a lot of sun and the Sacramento area has been pretty hot the last week (we get 100F+). The algae has very much slowed coming back after I kept the chlorine at that 1.5 level. I'm afraid it's yellow algae because it's yellow/brown & mostly on the walls - initially I thought I couldn't scrub it off with my nylon/steel brush, but yesterday I was able to rub it off with my finger. Therefore, I thought I would follow the guidelines on shocking for algae, but wanted to get the pool chemistry right first.
    It seems to me like my water is probably tired. Regardless, my understanding is that high CH or high CYA requires a pool draining.
    1) How do I drain my AG/outdoor pool?
    - Do I go rent a pump from Home Depot or something? Or should I try to siphon?
    - My pool is pretty far from my front yard so do I feed the pump/water all the way to the street?
    - How much water should I drain out and replace? I don't mind replacing it all if I need to (about 18k gallons).
    - Do I need to constantly wet the plaster during the draining or something?
    - How much time can I expect it will take to drain the pool?
    - And how much time can I expect it will take to fill the pool?
    - I have an auto-fill system that uses a float to fill the pool and keep the level constant - Do I just prop that into position so it doesn't start filling the pool?
    - And should I put a hose into the pool to help it fill with water faster?

    2) How do I get to a stable chemical balance once I fill it? Do I just go through the normal exercise of testing then using the pool calculator?

    3) Algae
    - I will start with cleaning out the filter cartridge. It's been 1 year since I bought the house and it was supposedly replaced. But the reading is weird as it's like only showing 1 lb of pressure - suggesting a hole in the element or something is off inside - I won't know until I open it up hopefully tomorrow.
    - Do I start out by shocking the pool for days after I fill it - to ensure no algae and just starting out with new water?

    Sorry for having so may questions but I'm obsessed with getting my pool right.
    Thanks a lot in advance. Very cool of so many of you to offer your insights and expertise.
    Outdoor IG Plaster Pool @18,000 gallons
    Cartridge Filter: Jandy CL580 (filter area 580 ft2, Max Flow 150 gpm, 6-hr capacity 54,000g)
    Pool Built est. 2002

  2. Back To Top    #2
    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Help for new guy

    You are correct, with a cya over 100 ppm, you will need to do a drain/refill. Do you know what your water table is? The danger of draining IG plaster pools, is popping them out of the ground which can happen when the water level in the pool goes below the water level in the ground around it.

    Quote Originally Posted by yeomanflood
    2) How do I get to a stable chemical balance once I fill it? Do I just go through the normal exercise of testing then using the pool calculator?
    Yes, once you have lowered your cya down to ~50 ppm, you will do the rest of the tests, then use the poolcalculator to adjust.

    Quote Originally Posted by yeomanflood
    3) Algae
    - I will start with cleaning out the filter cartridge. It's been 1 year since I bought the house and it was supposedly replaced. But the reading is weird as it's like only showing 1 lb of pressure - suggesting a hole in the element or something is off inside - I won't know until I open it up hopefully tomorrow.
    Does the gauge go to 0 when the pump is off?


    Quote Originally Posted by yeomanflood
    - Do I start out by shocking the pool for days after I fill it - to ensure no algae and just starting out with new water?
    Once you get your cya down, then you will likely need to do the shocking process.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

  3. Back To Top    #3

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    Re: Help for new guy

    Hey, Linen - thanks for your responses.
    - Regarding my filter - yes, it goes to zero when it goes off, but only goes up to maybe 1 lb or something like that when it's on. Odd.
    - I'm pretty sure the water table is lower than the bottom of my pool (which is relatively shallow). So I don't think that draining will be an issue for the plaster, I will double check.
    - So to my other questions - do I need to rent a pump and direct the water to the street? Do I need to drain all of the water? Is there risk of the plaster getting damaged if I don't keep it moist? etc..
    Thanks, again.
    Outdoor IG Plaster Pool @18,000 gallons
    Cartridge Filter: Jandy CL580 (filter area 580 ft2, Max Flow 150 gpm, 6-hr capacity 54,000g)
    Pool Built est. 2002

  4. Back To Top    #4
    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Help for new guy

    You can buy a small submersible electric utility/sump pump from ebay or Harbor Freight that you can connect to a standard garden hose for less than $50 (good looking used ones on ebay at the moment at as little as $25 buy it now) , at 1,500 - 2,000 GPH they are capable of fully draining your pool in about 10-12 hours. You just need a basic manual control model, no need for a fancy float switch to turn it off, etc. As to where to drain it, what just depends some areas have laws or ordinances against draining into the street, many people in these areas seem to do their draining at night and hope no one notices. Sure these may not be the best quality, but as long as you are not depending on them to keep your basement from flooding they should work fine for the occasional pool draining.

    Ike
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
    ~Remember TFP counts on your donations to keep this site ad free~

  5. Back To Top    #5

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    Re: Help for new guy

    Thanks for the advice on purchasing a pump. I'll be sure to look into that option. And I'll look for the sewer drain...
    Outdoor IG Plaster Pool @18,000 gallons
    Cartridge Filter: Jandy CL580 (filter area 580 ft2, Max Flow 150 gpm, 6-hr capacity 54,000g)
    Pool Built est. 2002

  6. Back To Top    #6

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    Re: Help for new guy

    Pool drained and filled!!
    I thought I better get on the chemical path within 24 hours right or asap right? Problem is I have to go into work early Monday.
    FC - 0
    CC - 0
    pH - 8.2
    TA - 230
    CH - 80
    CYA - 0

    I just wanted to make sure I had the next steps right:
    1) Add Acid and adjust Ph to 7.0 or 7.2 for now. I should work on the TA over time via aeration....
    2) Add CYA conditioner/stabilizer - I don't mind purchasing the liquid so I can get going.
    3) Add Chlorine - I intend on shocking a few days because of the algae I had.
    4) Add Calcium Chloride or chloride dihydrate.

    I'm using the targets from this forum for now. So I'll try to get CYA to 40 then shock for several days. I understand getting the Ph right early is important from what I've read.
    Thanks everyone.
    Outdoor IG Plaster Pool @18,000 gallons
    Cartridge Filter: Jandy CL580 (filter area 580 ft2, Max Flow 150 gpm, 6-hr capacity 54,000g)
    Pool Built est. 2002

  7. Back To Top    #7

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    Re: Help for new guy

    Guys, I haven't heard from anyone. Regarding my pool just drained and filled - does the following make sense in terms of next steps?

    1) Add Acid and adjust Ph to 7.0 or 7.2 for now. I should work on the TA over time via aeration....
    2) Add CYA conditioner/stabilizer - I don't mind purchasing the liquid so I can get going.
    3) Add Chlorine - I intend on shocking a few days because of the algae I had.
    4) Add Calcium Chloride or chloride dihydrate.

    Thanks in advance...
    Outdoor IG Plaster Pool @18,000 gallons
    Cartridge Filter: Jandy CL580 (filter area 580 ft2, Max Flow 150 gpm, 6-hr capacity 54,000g)
    Pool Built est. 2002

  8. Back To Top    #8
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Help for new guy

    Those steps look good to me.

    I was gonna say swap 2 & 3 but if you're going to use liquid CYA it's fine the way it is.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  9. Back To Top    #9

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    Re: Help for new guy

    If you have any lights, now's a good time to check behind them. Ladders too.
    Bill
    18'X4' 7600 Gal AG
    3/4 HP Pentair Pump
    Hayward S166T 100 lb sand filter

  10. Back To Top    #10

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    Re: Help for new guy

    Last night added: 100oz MA@34.6% liquid & 1.5 gallons conditioner
    This morning:
    pH 7.4
    CYA ~20 (I struggle with this test)
    Added: 58oz MA@34.6% liquid & 0.5 gallons conditioner, and I think 224oz of chlorine (but I can't be sure - didn't write it down - dur dur)
    This early evening:
    FC 11.5
    pH - didn't do since FC >10
    CYA 28 or 30.
    Leslie's Pools did a test:
    FC 8
    pH 7.6
    CYA 40.
    I will run the tests again.
    I was surprised the FC was so high, I might have put in more than I recall or maybe my pool is not really 18,000g (it's free form and I used a tape measure and averages).
    For their CYA test they used the dot test with the handle that drops the dot into the solution. I did it a zillion times with the manager and I think previously I was waiting for the white area to disappear and was trying to hard to see the dot - and not for the dot to reach the point of "just disappearing." I have read everything here & on the net on how to do the test. In fact, I ordered the 50ppm adjusted from TFTestKits so I can be sure!!
    Conditioner label says 1g treats 10,000g pool to CYA of 33. My pool size est is 18,000g, so the 2g I put in it ending with a reading of 40 makes sense to me.
    With these observations I'm relatively convinced my CYA is probably closer to 40 than 30.
    1) I need to shock. Can I wait till Friday to start that process (I'm going to go the I-think-I-had-mustard-algae route)? I haven't really seen any yet but haven't checked either. Meanwhile, do I just keep the FC target at 5 or higher until then?
    2) I think mustard shock level is like 24!! And I read the recommendation is 24 hours. Longer if you have bloom, etc. But my water is new. So how long do I shock it at 24? I don't mind going longer if it's better. I think I'm supposed to check it like every hour for a while until it starts to stabilize at 24 for that at-least-24 hours?
    3) my CH is too low at 80 - I have the powder, but can I wait and do this later after shock?
    4) TA is too high at 260 - I think I'm allowed to address this over time.

    Sorry my post is so long-winded, it's the end of the day.
    Thanks everyone for your help. Already the new water in the pool is making it look fantastic.
    Outdoor IG Plaster Pool @18,000 gallons
    Cartridge Filter: Jandy CL580 (filter area 580 ft2, Max Flow 150 gpm, 6-hr capacity 54,000g)
    Pool Built est. 2002

  11. Back To Top    #11
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Help for new guy

    1. why wait till Friday? You certainly can if you do not think you can check very often until then. Maintain at least 5ppm until then

    2. Review the mustard algae article. As I recall, you do the normal shock process and after passing, raise to mustard level for 24 hours.

    3. That is pretty low. No problem adding the power to raise it some now ... should not affect anything else and will be better for the player.

    4. TA can wait, it may just cause the pH to rise. Finish the shock process and then do the lowering TA process.

    Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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  12. Back To Top    #12

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    Re: Help for new guy

    Thanks for the response!
    1) OK, then - I will start to keep the chlorine high and see how it goes.
    2) yes, I think ur right, normal shock then go to 24 hours; I will try to get to OFLC of 1 or something lowish (lot of sun these days)
    3) Cool, I will start to address CH
    4) Yeah, will wait on TA
    Thanks, again!
    Outdoor IG Plaster Pool @18,000 gallons
    Cartridge Filter: Jandy CL580 (filter area 580 ft2, Max Flow 150 gpm, 6-hr capacity 54,000g)
    Pool Built est. 2002

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