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Thread: Valve Actuator Basics

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    Valve Actuator Basics

    Hi!

    My pool returns to pool wall jets and to the spa which then waterfalls into the pool.

    My assumption is that this valve, controls return to the pool (the pipe at bottom of pic) versus return to the spa (nearly off in this pic)

    Right now the flow out of the jets is great and the spa falling into the pool is poor.

    I have checked the impeller in the pump and there was no debris.

    Questions:

    Do I get flow through pool jets AND flow to spa by virtue of this valve not closing spa completely? The valve is not fully pointing off toward the spa return pipe in this photo)

    If so, and I am not getting enough flow to spa when in pool mode, does this valve need to be turned even more to the left to allow more water to the spa?

    Should I disassemble this valve and look for debris in the return pipes adjoining it?

    This valve has two pegs on the top, both set to 180 degrees. If this sets the actuator to flip 180 depending on pool or spa mode, why doesn't it close spa pipe fully by facing the spa return pipe? When in spa mode this valve will turn fully and block the pool return pipe (again the pipe at bottom of picture)[attachment=0:2ig9dxpy]IMG_12601.jpg[/attachment:2ig9dxpy]
    Thanks As Always!
    Bob

    23,000 gal in-ground, Aquarite salt sys, Intellitouch i7 +3, Hayward cartridge filter (4) C-5025, Polaris 280 Pool Cleaner, 3/4 HP booster pump, Hydrazzo plaster.

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    Re: Valve Actuator Basics

    Here is the position when in spa mode.[attachment=0:1l5u7r81]IMG_12621.jpg[/attachment:1l5u7r81]
    Thanks As Always!
    Bob

    23,000 gal in-ground, Aquarite salt sys, Intellitouch i7 +3, Hayward cartridge filter (4) C-5025, Polaris 280 Pool Cleaner, 3/4 HP booster pump, Hydrazzo plaster.

  3. Back To Top    #3
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Valve Actuator Basics

    Unless you have other bypass pipes not in the picture, that valve is the only way for water to get to the spa. You are correct that turning the valve more CCW would allow more water to go to the spa. NOTE: you may not be able to manually turn this valve without disengaging the actuator. There are stops in the actuator that determine when the valve stops turning (these are different than the pegs). So, it sounds like you may want to change the actuator stop to allow more overflow from the spa.

    But, is the change in performance sudden? Did you used to get better flow and now it is lower flow? If so, is it time to clean your filter?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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  4. Back To Top    #4

    Re: Valve Actuator Basics

    Jason,

    This has been a gradual thing unaffected by efforts of cleaning. As of late I have been very freqent and diligent about cleaning the Hayward cartridges.
    I have a big silt problem in my pool because of some slate tiles above water line that will be replaced to a less degradable material when we decide to spend.
    The filters are 5-6 yrs old and the cheap bands that hold the "gills" uniform have been falling off and the tube in the filter no longer has the cheap filter screen on its end but tube is not blocked by debris (hey I'm just blanket describing). My pressure guage reads 18 after cleaning. Goes higher when solar pump is on.
    Thanks As Always!
    Bob

    23,000 gal in-ground, Aquarite salt sys, Intellitouch i7 +3, Hayward cartridge filter (4) C-5025, Polaris 280 Pool Cleaner, 3/4 HP booster pump, Hydrazzo plaster.

  5. Back To Top    #5
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Valve Actuator Basics

    If you have been slowly loosing flow (has the pressure in the filter also generally climbed) even when cleaning the cartridges, and given their age and condition you describe, might be time for a new set.

    Changing the actuator would just be a treating a symptom.

    How is the flow from the spa if you do not install the cartridges in the filter?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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  6. Back To Top    #6

    Re: Valve Actuator Basics

    Ahh... I wondered if no cartridges was a reasonable test!
    Thanks As Always!
    Bob

    23,000 gal in-ground, Aquarite salt sys, Intellitouch i7 +3, Hayward cartridge filter (4) C-5025, Polaris 280 Pool Cleaner, 3/4 HP booster pump, Hydrazzo plaster.

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Re: Valve Actuator Basics

    BTW - If the pegs are set at 180 on the actuator valve = how come it does not go fully to the right over the spa pipe?
    Thanks As Always!
    Bob

    23,000 gal in-ground, Aquarite salt sys, Intellitouch i7 +3, Hayward cartridge filter (4) C-5025, Polaris 280 Pool Cleaner, 3/4 HP booster pump, Hydrazzo plaster.

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Valve Actuator Basics

    As JB said, the stops inside the actuator determine where the valve stops and it doesn't use the external pins on the handle for that. You'll have to open the actuator to see them.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    Re: Valve Actuator Basics

    Sorry, I thought JB was restating the pegs were it.
    Can you direct me to a post that might explain the dissection of an actuator?
    Thanks As Always!
    Bob

    23,000 gal in-ground, Aquarite salt sys, Intellitouch i7 +3, Hayward cartridge filter (4) C-5025, Polaris 280 Pool Cleaner, 3/4 HP booster pump, Hydrazzo plaster.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Valve Actuator Basics

    I can not read the manufacturer of the actuator ... there are 3-4 different options.

    You should be able to Google the manual for it (or I can if you give me the maker).
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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  11. Back To Top    #11

    Re: Valve Actuator Basics

    THanks Jason, I'll do the leg work since you are saying a manual likely exists
    Thanks As Always!
    Bob

    23,000 gal in-ground, Aquarite salt sys, Intellitouch i7 +3, Hayward cartridge filter (4) C-5025, Polaris 280 Pool Cleaner, 3/4 HP booster pump, Hydrazzo plaster.

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Re: Valve Actuator Basics

    Hi,

    So I am running the pool with the cartridges not in the filter.

    Still 18 psi

    Still no better flow from spa waterfall into pool.

    Main pump impeller is fine, no abnormal pump sounds.

    Everything has its own pump so different activities should not influence my main pump's performance correct?

    Solar is on - its own pump.
    Pool cleaner - booster pump

    What do I do, start snaking pipes?
    Thanks As Always!
    Bob

    23,000 gal in-ground, Aquarite salt sys, Intellitouch i7 +3, Hayward cartridge filter (4) C-5025, Polaris 280 Pool Cleaner, 3/4 HP booster pump, Hydrazzo plaster.

  13. Back To Top    #13
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Valve Actuator Basics

    So the pressure stays the same (or at least high) regardless if the valve is toward the pool or the spa? That would mean there must be something after the filter and before (or in) that valve that is causing the higher than expected pressure.

    Or does the pressure drop a lot on one of the return modes?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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  14. Back To Top    #14

    Re: Valve Actuator Basics

    Jason,

    I forgot that I posted - sorry.

    Thank you for that.

    I do not understand the last question.
    >Or does the pressure drop a lot on one of the return modes?<
    Could you restate that like you are talking to a 5th grader?

    Is 18 psi high? Should be 10? My solar is on this time of year so I thought that extra pump increases the presure.

    So you are explaining that it would be in a common pipe since not higher in pipes to one vs the other?
    Thanks As Always!
    Bob

    23,000 gal in-ground, Aquarite salt sys, Intellitouch i7 +3, Hayward cartridge filter (4) C-5025, Polaris 280 Pool Cleaner, 3/4 HP booster pump, Hydrazzo plaster.

  15. Back To Top    #15
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Valve Actuator Basics

    I will have to try to remember what I was saying

    I do not know if 18psi is high. I thought you were saying that your flow seems to be getting lower and I was wondering if the pressure was also going up.

    I think my question was basically, what are the pressures when in different modes? Pool vs Spa vs Pool+solar.
    Spa is usually higher than Pool. And adding solar usually adds pressure as well.

    Maybe you should re-state your concern. At this point I do not know if you are having a problem or not.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  16. Back To Top    #16

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    Re: Valve Actuator Basics

    Some observations:
    The valve in question is an early compool valve and actuator. It is set like that to allow water to continuously return to the spa (thus keeping it fresh). The adjustment for this is inside the actuator. If you ever redo this you would be much better served with a seperate, full size, spa bypass line with it's own manual adjusting valve.
    The two pins are for use as stops when there is no actuator. In this installation they are doing nothing.
    As far as the pressure is concerned, does the gage return to zero when the pump is off? 18 PSI is high for a big cartridge filter; 18PSI with no cartridges is nuts and implies a partial blockage on the return side. Opening the three way valve and inspecting it is a good place to start.
    Hope this helps.
    In the industry, CSP (Certified Service Professional) by the NSPI and it's successor the APSP. My company services over 600 pools every year. I think the practices regularly espoused on this forum (especially the BBB method) are outstanding; however my comments will be often oriented towards the goal of getting it done, and getting it done right now!

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