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Thread: Replacement Pump

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    Replacement Pump

    Our current pool pump (Emerson Motors 1HP 1081 K63CXERN-4780) is slowly leaking water from somewhere on it's bottom. Since I was planning to replace it with a more efficient model, I figured now is the time to do this and was hoping for some advice on a replacement. Our pool holds about 20,000 gallons (75,000 litres), has 4 return jets (2 on stairs), 1 skimmer, 1 drain, 1 vacuum line, has no special water features and uses a sand filter.

    The two main qualities I'd like in a new pump are efficiency and quietness. Based on this, and after reading various threads in the forum, I came up with the following options:

    -Pentair Intelliflo
    -Pentair Whisperflo

    While I was attracted to the Intelliflo because of its efficiency, quietness and built in programmability, it looks like its higher cost wouldn't be justified given our local electrical rates (.65kwh to .10/kwh TOU). Therefore, I'm now thinking about the Whisperflo, but there are 35 Whisperflo models listed on the Pentair website! Based on what I've read, it sounds like we would want Dual Speed, which narrows it down to 8 models, but I still need to figure out the following:

    1) Full rated vs Up rated
    2) HP (.75, 1, 1.5, 2)

    Any help selecting the model to buy would be much appreciated.

    Thank you
    20,000 Gallons Inground Vinyl Pool, 1 skimmer, 1 floor drain, 4 return jets, 1 vacuum intake
    Hayward Vari-Flo XL sand filter (SM2506T), Hayward EZ Flow Pump (SP-3107X10), Emerson Pump Motor (EB228), Hayward Comfortzone NG Heater, Hayward Chlorinator (CL220)

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Replacement Pump

    Well we can narrow down a little more because the up rated and full rated are actually equivalent. So there are only four models to choose from.

    There is no reason to go bigger than what you already have. So that just leaves the smallest two.

    Is your current pump 120 or 240 V ?

    Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: Replacement Pump

    Thanks, Jason. Can you tell from the following pic of the pump pump?



    Also, if there are any other models that exceed the Whisperflo on efficiency and quietness, I would definitely consider those as well.
    20,000 Gallons Inground Vinyl Pool, 1 skimmer, 1 floor drain, 4 return jets, 1 vacuum intake
    Hayward Vari-Flo XL sand filter (SM2506T), Hayward EZ Flow Pump (SP-3107X10), Emerson Pump Motor (EB228), Hayward Comfortzone NG Heater, Hayward Chlorinator (CL220)

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Replacement Pump

    Can't tell. that pump can be wired either way. What is the breaker on the pump?

    Whisperflo is a really efficient pump. The superflo is good too but a little smaller.

    Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Replacement Pump

    The pump you have now will probably use less energy than any of the Whisperflos since it has a smaller motor than even the WFDS-3 or 24 so changing over to a Whisperflo may not result in lower energy use unless you are willing to reduce run time by a lot.

    Have you considered just replacing the motor with a two speed? Is the wet end in good condition?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Replacement Pump

    i think my pool pump is too large from reading your 1hp 22k and multi jets
    as i have a 1.5hp with 2 outlets 1 strainer and 1 main drain 11k gallons

    i just replaced the pump that was there as it died on me
    went with a Hayward 1.5
    11,000 gal inground fiberglass pool
    Aquarite SWG system

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    Re: Replacement Pump

    sounds like you just need to replace the shaft seal and o-rings

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    Re: Replacement Pump

    17K Kidney Shaped Pool Concrete (Diamond Bright) Pool, 3/4 hp 2 speed 115V Sta-rite Duraglas PEA5D-180L/P2R5D-181L (Impeller C105-92PS Diffuser C1-216P), 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 Filter , Heat Siphon 100K BTU Heat Pump Pool Heater, Flow meter Blue White Flowmeter Model No. F-30150P, Hayward Astrolight SP0581N, SWCG CalimarTitanium Edition TE45 , Dolphin Nautilus Plus with CleverClean, Lakeland Florida

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    Re: Replacement Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    Can't tell. that pump can be wired either way. What is the breaker on the pump?

    Whisperflo is a really efficient pump. The superflo is good too but a little smaller.

    Posted from my Droid with Tapatalk ... sorry if my response is short
    It looks like the breaker is a double pole breaker (240 volts?) with 15 marked on both handles.
    20,000 Gallons Inground Vinyl Pool, 1 skimmer, 1 floor drain, 4 return jets, 1 vacuum intake
    Hayward Vari-Flo XL sand filter (SM2506T), Hayward EZ Flow Pump (SP-3107X10), Emerson Pump Motor (EB228), Hayward Comfortzone NG Heater, Hayward Chlorinator (CL220)

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    Re: Replacement Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985
    The pump you have now will probably use less energy than any of the Whisperflos since it has a smaller motor than even the WFDS-3 or 24 so changing over to a Whisperflo may not result in lower energy use unless you are willing to reduce run time by a lot.

    Have you considered just replacing the motor with a two speed? Is the wet end in good condition?
    This has me confused as I thought the Whisperflos were near the top of the efficiency scale. I'm not sure how old our pump is, but we moved into the house 3 years ago and based on the signs of wear I'd say it's at least 5-7 years old. How could our old pump be more efficient that a newer, energy efficent model?
    20,000 Gallons Inground Vinyl Pool, 1 skimmer, 1 floor drain, 4 return jets, 1 vacuum intake
    Hayward Vari-Flo XL sand filter (SM2506T), Hayward EZ Flow Pump (SP-3107X10), Emerson Pump Motor (EB228), Hayward Comfortzone NG Heater, Hayward Chlorinator (CL220)

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    Re: Replacement Pump

    Quote Originally Posted by DBfan187
    sounds like you just need to replace the shaft seal and o-rings
    I consider myself to be pretty handy, but I have little experience with pool equipment. Is this something that most pumps require at some point and is it a simple fix?

    I was leaning towards a newer pump for the efficiency gains and lower operating sound, but if I could quickly fix the current one and get until we close in September, it would give me some time to buy one over the winter when prices might be a bit lower.
    20,000 Gallons Inground Vinyl Pool, 1 skimmer, 1 floor drain, 4 return jets, 1 vacuum intake
    Hayward Vari-Flo XL sand filter (SM2506T), Hayward EZ Flow Pump (SP-3107X10), Emerson Pump Motor (EB228), Hayward Comfortzone NG Heater, Hayward Chlorinator (CL220)

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Replacement Pump

    You have a 1 SFHP motor currently. The smallest Whisperflo is a 1.25 SFHP motor. So on high speed it will likely use more power than your existing motor, but on low speed it would certainly use less power.

    Plus, since you have 240V, you could not even get the smallest 2-speed Whisperflo without changing your wiring. The alternative would be the Superflow 1HP (1.25 SFHP) which is 240V, that is what I have. As I recall, Mark told me previously that the Superflo uses less power / flow rate than the Whisperflo ... I can not be positive though.

    Replacing the shaft seal is pretty easy, a few bolts, remove the impeller, put the new seal on ... even without doing that, your pump may last until Sept.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Replacement Pump

    To add to Jason's response, higher efficiency does not always mean that less energy is used. The Whisperflo has a higher power efficiency than the Superflo when defined as Water Power / Electrical power. But most pool owners really don't care about water power because water power is a function of both flow rate AND pressure. The more important metric to use is gallons pumped per watt-hr consumed (gallons/watt-hr) which the CEC defines as the pump energy factor. The energy factor captures the two most important parameters when comparing pumps, flow rate and energy. Generally, when a pump has a better energy factor it cost less to run although that may not always be true. Here is an example of how things can get a little confusing so let's compare two pumps, the Whisperflo WFDS-24 and the SuperFlo SF-N2-1A on Curve-C plumbing.

    Whisperflo WFDS-24: 78 GPM @ 1592 watts, Energy Factor: 2.92 gallons/watt-hr
    Superflo SF-N2-1A: 70 GPM @ 1450 watts, Energy Factor: 2.90 gallons/watt-hr

    As you can see they have about the same energy factors but the Superflo uses less watts. So if you set up both pumps for 1 turnover per day, the Whisperflo would need to run about 4.3 hours while the Superflo would run about 4.75 hours and both would use about 6.9 kw. However, if like many people, you would run either pump for a given fixed time, the Whisperflo would end up using more energy but it would also turnover the pool more.

    The point is that it really depends on how you would operate each pump, fixed time or fixed turnover. In fact, most people choose a fixed time because of other factors that come into play.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Replacement Pump

    Just wanted to thank everyone for helping out here. The wife and I had a baby in March and that didn't give me a chance to look at replacement pumps when I opened the pool this month. However, I was able to pick up a replacement Pump Seal for $15 that fixed the issue!

    At some point in the future I'll be looking at getting a quieter and more efficient motor, but we should be good for the next season or two.
    20,000 Gallons Inground Vinyl Pool, 1 skimmer, 1 floor drain, 4 return jets, 1 vacuum intake
    Hayward Vari-Flo XL sand filter (SM2506T), Hayward EZ Flow Pump (SP-3107X10), Emerson Pump Motor (EB228), Hayward Comfortzone NG Heater, Hayward Chlorinator (CL220)

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