HALP! Poolsitting and Husband is a doofus!

[linen]

They got a pool store reading of 43ppm ... take from that what you will

Oops, I missed that. Well, then that is what we have to go on.

As jbliz said above, keep the FC above 4 ppm at all times for now, brushing a bunch during and after adding to mix it into the pool. I would use bleach or liquid chlorine to do this.

Get the pump working asap, then see how the water looks after that runs 24/7 for a couple days.

 

[blondemarcello]

Wow, I'm a new pool owner and I can say it, wow. I can't believe all the trouble you are going through. Hang in there. If the pump wasn't working before they left, they had to know that there were going to be problems. The instructions about the soft water would have sent me running the other way. We have hard water and there is no way I'm not flushing the toilet at night just because there might be a time when hard water runs through it. An icky toilet is usually the reminder to me to get some more salt

Good luck with the cannonballing.

 

[sparklepants]

Woke up this morning and the water was even murkier. FC still way above 10ppm. At this point im waking away from it until tomorrow when we get the new pump. I threw in another gallon of bleach before I left this morning for good measure. Ive been home for two days running around like a chicken with its head cut off trying to fix this but clearly its unfixable until I get the pump.

Honestly at this point im just kind of miffed at the granparents. Looking back on the initial FC it was .5, and they dangle a fictional 8k bill over out head if we dont follow everything to a T but leave no instructions to add bleach whatsoever. Im sure the addition of water was a catalyst but c'mon... Oh well. At least I know more about pool chemistry than I ever expected to.

 

[UnderWaterVanya]

Honestly at this point im just kind of miffed at the granparents. Looking back on the initial FC it was .5, and they dangle a fictional 8k bill over out head if we dont follow everything to a T but leave no instructions to add bleach whatsoever. Im sure the addition of water was a catalyst but c'mon... Oh well. At least I know more about pool chemistry than I ever expected to.

They may not know about bleach. Many pool owners only do what the pool store tells them and have zero real understanding of the chemistry. They might have a fit if they knew you were not dumping algaecides etc in.

 

[DCAG]

Here's a thought: If the pH of the tap water at the GParents house is low, say below 7, AND the water sat in the pipes for a week, it could be copper in the water from the overfill.
The green seems, to me, to be too even and clear for algea. My vote is for copper, with algea growing because of the low CL, and bad pump.
Next time you're there, test the tap water for pH.

Dan

Edit: After looking at the photos again.. it's not really as green as I thought. So it probably is Iron... I just thought Iron caused the water to turn brownish... not yellow.

 

[phonedave]

My take in the whole mess

1) The water softner thing is insane. I don't have one, but it is my understanding that in many cases, if possible, hose bibs are not plumbed to a softner system. Do you really want to spend money to water your lawn with soft water? Maybe they did so especially for the pool

2) They leave you with a busted pump motor. Not cool at all. As others have said, since they are using an inline puck feeder, the pool was not getting any chlorine at all. It was only a matter of 2 or 3 days, at the most, before alge set in.

3) They loose +/- 200 gallons a day by running their filter! Aside from the cost and waste of water, that also plays havoc with their pool chemistry. By removing that much water a day, and replacing it with domestic water, all sorts of things are going to go out of whack.

4) As was said $8,000 for a new pump! Not unless the pump is made from solid gold.


As others have said, you need to know your CYA level from a reliable test. Get your CL levels up, up, up there and brush and circulate the water. I don't understand why it takes so long to get a pump motor. They are not that rare an item. The problem I see is that when fighting the green monster you want to be running that filter 24/7. They loose between 200-300 gals in an 8 hour run. you are going to be loosing up to 900 gallons a day fighting this mess. Their water softner cannot handle that load (according to their instructions - 750 gals per daily regen) so you have going to have to add un-softened water. That is going to add metals (if that is in the municipal water). In addition to adding metals, it is going to lower your CYA by doing a partial water change each day. It is also going to make your CL drop faster by flushing out the pool water with the high CL and adding a low CL municipal supply. That leak really needs to be addressed.

-dave

 

[anonapersona]

You know it has iron because of the notes they left regarding what happens when you exceed the capacity of the system by running the hose too long. There could be other minerals there as well. Metals will not show up on test if sequesterants have been used. Metals often look worse at high chlorine levels.

They said "pump driven leaks will cost $8K to fix" so it is not the pump, but some other pressure side leak. Could be the filter or any piping anywhere.

You are fighting two monsters at once, the iron and the lack of pumping to circulate and filter the pool. I agree this pool was a time bomb, especially since you arrived so late after they departed. Hope the fall out does not damage your relationship with the grandparents. Plenty of blame for each side as the hose problem could be solved if the pump was working, but the failure of the pump will likely be blamed on the low water level.

 

[UnderWaterVanya]

1) 24x7 pump run is norm for fighting algae - they will have to skip that and go with 8 hours - perhaps spread over 24 hours in order to avoid overtaking the softener. I don't think other options will work.

2) Because of the constant loss of water - the CYA levels are low. They use a puck feeder and have a reported CYA of 43 - that might be possible with 200gallons a day turning over.

3) Algaecides are not the norm with BBB - but could this be part of the solution if they have a high water turnover, a potential for sequestered metals already, and problems with the ability to run pump 24x7?

 

[krazykrames]

1) 24x7 pump run is norm for fighting algae - they will have to skip that and go with 8 hours - perhaps spread over 24 hours in order to avoid overtaking the softener.

Water softeners can manually be triggered to recharge. Let the water run, when the capacity gets low shut the water off, trigger the recharge, in a few hours when it's done, run the water again.

 

[UnderWaterVanya]

1) 24x7 pump run is norm for fighting algae - they will have to skip that and go with 8 hours - perhaps spread over 24 hours in order to avoid overtaking the softener.

Water softeners can manually be triggered to recharge. Let the water run, when the capacity gets low shut the water off, trigger the recharge, in a few hours when it's done, run the water again.

As far as we know so far - they don't know how to do this. This is neither their house, their water softener, nor their pool. They have limited instructions and little leeway since the owners are out of the country.

Details here: halp-poolsitting-and-husband-is-a-doofus-t51667-20.html#p424352

 

[Articfox918]

OK, I'm throwing my 2 cents in the ring here one, so I can follow this thread to see the turn out and two some advise.

$8,000.00 For a pump??? Hmm I am in the wrong business any one want to start making pool pumps? At that price we should be somewhat successful.
Outdoor hose Bib connected to water softener? Never seen it but could be possible --- The cost to fill a pool/water the lawn wow! maybe they figured this into the pump price therefore why so high?

I am also on a well I have a major Iron and Manganese. When ever I have to fill a significant amount of water this is exactly what my pool does it turns green (clear but green). It sounds to me that you are battling more than one monster here, and I believe it was bound to happen with the Grandparents leaving you in the situation they did without a working pump and no direction as to how to maintain CL levels. However, in their defense as stated previously they probably didn't know better then what they are told by the local pool store. I do think the situation requires a shocking (a process not a one time deal). This can be learned in pool school "How to shock your pool". It sounds as if you have somewhat started it but will be harder and longer til you get the pump going. I believe a majority issue is metals in the water. As said before when I fill this happens to me I add metal magic and WHALA! back to clear. You do need to shock and it looks as the usual suspect here have started to steer you right as always listen to them they know what they are doing and can get you through this

Now on to the Grandparents....(By all means do not take this the wrong way I mean it in the nicest way possible) It sucks they left you in this position, I cringed when I read this story... I truly feel for you here! They set you up perfectly for this disaster and the timing was just right you were in the wrong place at the right time now when they get back this is how I envision the conversation going. "Welcome home! How was Africa?...Thats great!.... The pool oh we had an issue in the beginning but got it all cleared up.....What was wrong??.. Oh nothing some bleach couldn't take care of... by the way you need to get the leak fixed. Bleach?...Yeah we used bleach...calm down calm down it all ok! everything is good to go OH by the way, here this is for you... what is it? read it !...... Grandparents look at the paper which reads http://WWW.TROUBLEFREEPOOL.COM. now tells us about Africa! We cant wait to hear about it!"

Sorry for rambling on there I read this thread and a ton of emotions started flying! Stick to it listen and follow through and this mess will soon be gone

 

[Swampwoman]

Hi there. Sorry for your troubles. I have a well. I have a tap plumbed to the soft water to avoid iron. So yes, some people do it.

I think you are reasonably safe to assume, based on clarity and color, that indeed some iron got into the pool when the hose was left on all night and the water softener regenerated between 2 - 5 a.m. (Basing that presumption on the photos AND this comment

If the supply of softened water is depleted (Capacity = 0) then the entire system will be filled with high iron content water

You could simply try to add two bottles of Jack's Magic Pink stuff to see if the water clears -- while maintaining a sufficient level of sanitizer. Jack's magic "sequesters" iron, putting it into solution. You need one 32oz bottle for each 10,000 gallons the pool is. However, if that works, you *should* tell them when they return that you've done this, because they will also want to maintain metal sequestrate when there's iron in the water, or it will come back out and stain the pool.

You may also find that once the pump is fixed, the filter may remove the iron.

I did not see the testing results that are causing people to recommend shocking the pool, but if you do, don't be alarmed if the water turns brown from the iron oxidizing. Best to have that pump, and therefore the filter working amidst all this. Regardless of whether you shock or not, be sure to keep the FC reasonably high to offset how stupidly low they had apparently let it get.

So why were they concerned about burning out the pump if it was already broken -- I'm really confused about this combined with the instructions they left you. Were they AWARE the pump was broken, or was it your H who made that discovery?

From this part of the instruction, I take it to mean they're telling you to RUN the pump anyway, right? So it actually WILL work, it's just leaking? If that is the case, I think you should run the pump to keep things filtering...

- During normal 8 hour pump ron (on timer 8:20 am - 8 pm) the pool will lose 160 to 200 gallons of water through pump driven leakage. This loss needs to be replaced by running in softened and filtered water from our domestic supply.

 

[UnderWaterVanya]

I agree with the previous post ^ on most points - except the pump part. I'm not sure of the sequence of events - I assume however that the pump wound up more broken than the GP's had expected. My impression is that it was limping - and now it is dead. I'm also thinking the GP's left before it died to this extent. I figure they had left detailed instructions with the expectation that things would not break - but as luck would have it - that didn't work out.

Question - how much does it cost to have a truckload of water brought in. It might be cheaper to dump the pool and refill if the ground water table is low enough rather than buying Jacks Magic and having them maintain that.

RE:Water leak - they say it's pump driven - they never said it leaked at the pump. Could the leaks be in underground pipe and/or elsewhere in a way that only leaks when the system is under pressure. If so, pump replacement doesn't fix this.

Last point... DE filters (from what I hear) are GREAT at filtering gunk - but they clog faster and require more attention and care than Sand or Cartridge filters. This begs the question - is this more than these folks should bite off to chew?

 

[sparklepants]

Ok, I agree that we are probably battling two monsters here. After keeping the pool at shock FC levels I notice it's more yellow -- probably iron

To clarify: Pump was 100% dead on arrival. I am also very perplexed as to why they insist that the water level stay a certain way when it really didn't matter, but I know for certain the pump was dead and they had already scheduled this guy to come before they left to replace it. Husband is now saying that they gave the instructions about the water level before the pump died. Still doesn't explain the 8k so i really can't either.

The one poster was right in that the system can be recharged, we just have to be here and diligent about it. We know how to do it and it's what we did the morning after the hose incident. Same thing with tending to the DE filter. I completely plan on making this pool my b*&$%. I can not and will not have them come back to a swamp, if for no other reason then personal pride and because im a stubborn jerk

I will just have to find a place around here that carries Jack's Magic, because after we deal with the algae problem I no doubt think that we will be dealing with iron. Tomorrow is D day, tomorrow the pool guy comes. Until then I can just stare at my green mess. Another thing was that no instruction was left to tell us how much DE to add to the filter -- any ideas?

edit: they have enough money that they can do either truck in a new pool-load or do Jack's Magic, I KNOW I only have enough money to treat the system

 

[UnderWaterVanya]

Fantastic attitude!
Keep the questions flowing...

 

[Bama Rambler]

Great attitude. With that attitude you'll have it clear and sparkly in no time. :-D

 

[Speedo]

I might have missed a few details along the way, but if this hasn't been mentioned before... how about purchasing the FAS-DPD and CYA test from TFTestkits? That would be the cheapest and most efficient way to get things taken care of, assuming that a new pump has already been installed.

Also noteworthy: people tend not to object when you say liquid chlorine, even if you're using bleach. You can buy 10% of 12.5% LC if you don't want them to see any bleach jugs or dispose of them before they return and switch over to the jugs labeled "pool shock." just be sure what you buy only has sodium hypochlorite as the active ingredient.

examples:
12.5% "pool shock"
10% "pool sanitizer"

Both of these are the same sodium hypochlorite as bleach, just different strengths.

 

[J20832]

Okay, I have to chime in here about the 8k on the pool pump. To the GP's credit, it might have cost a few thousand to have the current pump installed, particularly if they required an electrician to rewire from 120 to 240 and maybe more if they needed a subpanel installed off their main. Anyway, the pump looks like an Intelliflo, and they aren't cheap to begin with!

 

[phonedave]

Another thing was that no instruction was left to tell us how much DE to add to the filter -- any ideas?

It depends on the filter. It should say so on a label on the filter. I can see you have a Hayward, but can't make out the model.

Most DE filters are between 4 to 6 lbs. A single10 lb box of DE is more than enough for a charge. My EC-40 takes a 4lb charge. Backflush, purge the air, close the vent and flush valve, turn on the pump, and begin scooping DE directly into the skimmer.


-dave

 

[sparklepants]

Captain's Log. Stardate: August 9th 2012

The pool is now going on four days without functionality. Something must be done. There is relaxation that needs to be accomplished and company that must be had. The technician came today and installed the new pump. We are well on our way to once again enjoying life.

First I will need some motivation

There we go

Now I require an assistant, strong and brave

:? That'll do

Not like that, stupid duck! You are no use to me! :grrrr:

I asked the technician some questions via paper, I don't think he's impressed with my poolsitting abilities

Ye olde pool water has also turned yellowy/brown. Me thinks there's iron afloat, womp.

FC is still above 10 ppm, now for the questions.


Can I get a short explanation of how to use the filter? Where do I put the DE? I know I have to put 6 lbs in, is it the white net thing with the water running through it? This thing?

How do I vacuum the pool? what do i hook that thing up to? I am not smart.

The guy was like "don't use bleach, its very weak" Isn't it in fact, just half as strong as pool shock? 6% vs 12%? Its the difference between being able to pick up bleach any time of the day or running all the way to the pool store. I'd rather just go to Stop and Shop.

The technician did not know of any place that sells Jack's Magic