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Thread: I'm pretty sure sand is NOT supposed to show up here....

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    I'm pretty sure sand is NOT supposed to show up here....

    Greetings, This is my first time posting, I found this board a few years ago and I can't say how many times you've helped me out. I've recommended this board to many a pool owning friend.

    Background. Purchased house with pool 5 years ago. First year or so used pool service, found this board and it's been a pretty pleasant pool/human relationship since. This year has just gone a bit awry.
    20,000 gallon inground plaster, (it was re-surfaced at some point). Pool put in 1981. Hayward self-priming 1 hp superpump, Hayward Pro Series high rate sand filter, Model S244T/ 300lb 62gpm. Not sure how old the equipment is; 6 maybe 7 years?

    2 years ago I replaced the sand in the filter, last year replaced lateral assembly too.
    Just before I closed the pool last year replaced the valve cover for the vari-flow control, just the part with the handle and markings, not the whole control. The pump also started screaming. I closed the pool, and figured I would change the bearings in the pump during the winter.

    Well, I wasn't able to address the pump until last month. Got the pump fixed (bearings and seal), hooked it back up and followed my usual opening routine.
    Turned on the pump and all looked good, except I forgot to turn the filter to "filter" and had left it on "closed". I realized this pretty quickly, wasn't more than 5 maybe 10 minutes. Shut pump off, opened filter, restarted and monitored for a bit. I needed to retighten the pump connections, but otherwise all looked good.

    Returned several hours later and found water spewing out from under the new valve cover, the collar between the filter and flow valve, and the drain plug.
    Shut off the pump, refitted the drain plug and surprisingly there wasn't a gush of water. Checked the screws holding the cover and collar, and backwashed the pump thinking there might be a ton of debris in the filter. (Water is disgusting, but I have managed to remove most of the large stuff). It backwashed and rinsed perfectly and I restarted the pump. No spewing water and I could see the water moving well in the pool.
    Came out less than an hour later and water is again spewing from under the cover.
    Shut pump down. Removed valve cover to see if there was any debris preventing it from sitting flush, could see nothing, wiped and replaced it.

    Now, I may have done a silly thing. I took off the collar and lifted the whole flow-valve to check that water was actually making it down into the filter. I didn't raise it a great deal, just enough to make sure there was water. I fitted the flow valve back on without much fuss, tightened the collar.

    I removed the valve cover again to check for some sort of blockage or debris, all looked well, replaced it.
    I then tried to backwash the filter, nothing came out the waste hose. A small glurg of a puddle, then nothing.

    Shut off pump, switched to rinse because I'm the curious sort, turned pump on again, and a large bolus of something started moving down the waste hose (like Jerry the mouse running under the carpet to escape Tom) and what to my wondering eyes should appear, but approximately 10lbs of shining filter sand. Then some water and then some more sand, then some more water mixed with sand.
    At this point,(after hitting the pump off switch) I did the only sensible thing; had a beer and went to bed.

    So. I'm thinking I probably need a new lateral or whole lateral assembly. But what's causing the 360 degree spit take from under the valve cover?
    I would love to salvage the rest of the season, (and I have to fix this or I won't be able to close the pool)

    Oy. Sorry for the lengthy saga, any help is greatly appreciated. Would love to see blue water in my yard again...
    Thanks for any suggestions...

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: I'm pretty sure sand is NOT supposed to show up here....

    I don't know that you're going to have to replace anything except maybe the spider gasket. Before you go buying stuff, take the valve apart and see what's going on.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Re: I'm pretty sure sand is NOT supposed to show up here....

    I think that's it! I need a new spider gasket. A great deal easier than I imagined.
    If that's the fix, then I feel a bit silly I couldn't figure it out...
    I'll head to the store, hopefully they have one in stock.
    Thanks for the help.

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Re: I'm pretty sure sand is NOT supposed to show up here....

    I should not have been so confident.
    Still need help.
    Fixed the spewing water problem - checked the spider gasket and replaced the O-ring for the valve cover.
    Still have a problem. Now the pump won't prime in filter or recirculate, it had been working fine before. I can backwash and rinse (although I still get sand in the view glass on rinse). Turn the handle to filter and the pump runs but won't pull water. The motor seems to be working fine.
    Since there wasn't a problem before, (when I had water leaking under the valve cover); could I somehow have caused this by messing with the valve cover?
    I checked and retightened all the connections with the motor, the filter basket plugs and replaced the O-ring for the filter basket lid, but nothing. The pool won't filter.
    Bit of a sad and discouraging summer.
    Where do I start looking to fix this?
    Thanks again for your help.

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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: I'm pretty sure sand is NOT supposed to show up here....

    Could sand be clogging the returns? Filter and reciculate both need a working return... I know that a lack of prime seems top point to suction but you have not touched that. Plus the rinse and backwash don't send water to the pool. Does waste also prime?
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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    Re: I'm pretty sure sand is NOT supposed to show up here....

    Sorry, gone for the day and just checking back, thanks for the quick reply.
    I haven't tried waste, I'll give it a go first thing.
    I didn't mention that the pressure in the filter tank jumps pretty high when I try to filter, it's normally about 5-10psi (20 at it's worst before a backwash) and it jumps past 30. Could that indicate a blockage?

  7. Back To Top    #7
    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: I'm pretty sure sand is NOT supposed to show up here....

    Quote Originally Posted by Galloway
    Sorry, gone for the day and just checking back, thanks for the quick reply.
    I haven't tried waste, I'll give it a go first thing.
    I didn't mention that the pressure in the filter tank jumps pretty high when I try to filter, it's normally about 5-10psi (20 at it's worst before a backwash) and it jumps past 30. Could that indicate a blockage?
    I don't know enough to be sure - but it does fit.
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

  8. Back To Top    #8

    Re: I'm pretty sure sand is NOT supposed to show up here....

    Waste works fine. If it is a blockage, how do I go about confirming, and/or undoing it?

  9. Back To Top    #9
    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: I'm pretty sure sand is NOT supposed to show up here....

    Quote Originally Posted by Galloway
    Waste works fine. If it is a blockage, how do I go about confirming, and/or undoing it?
    Some of the threads on here mentioned a tool that attaches to a hose and plugs the return from the pool side and blows it out. Is that the best idea? I have no idea.
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Re: I'm pretty sure sand is NOT supposed to show up here....

    I was thinking about that tool too... Hopefully I can't make it worse. But I can give it
    a try. Back to the store I go.

  11. Back To Top    #11
    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: I'm pretty sure sand is NOT supposed to show up here....

    Quote Originally Posted by Galloway
    I was thinking about that tool too... Hopefully I can't make it worse. But I can give it
    a try. Back to the store I go.
    Personally I wonder if a simple plumping snake is the best option for the first clearing attempt. I'm also not clear if you should disconnect the filter side of the return but I'm betting you need to if you are blowing back that direction.
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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    Re: I'm pretty sure sand is NOT supposed to show up here....

    We think alike. I was wondering if a snake would work better too.
    I needed to plan this out a little better, so actually didn't get the Drain King yet.
    I hate to sound dumb, but not sure what you mean by filter side of the return... The return line coming off the filter?
    Could I access the line off the filter itself? Similar to when I blow out the returns at closing? I generally hook the compressor up to the backwash port. I wouldn't put a snake through there, but was thinking of opening the top of the multi-port and possibly getting to the return line there.
    Feel like an very indecisive nitwit. (Arrghh!)
    I was thinking this may be the best option since I'm not sure I can any line apart. They all seem to be glued/sealed at the joints.
    I greatly appreciate any assistance!

  13. Back To Top    #13
    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: I'm pretty sure sand is NOT supposed to show up here....

    Honestly I have no experience in this. It does seem like if you removed the multiport like you mentioned then tried the drain king or snake from the pool side to towards the filter that would be better than leaving it attached.

    However there may be valves in the way have you considered hiring a local pool service that clears clogs?
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Re: I'm pretty sure sand is NOT supposed to show up here....

    Okay, thanks.
    Yes, I actually did go over and talk to my regular pool service people. When I told him what was going on, he just said, "Hmm" and changed the subject. Before I head over to the other place in town, I would like to see if I can somehow work this out. Money is just way too tight this year.
    Thanks for you help.

  15. Back To Top    #15
    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: I'm pretty sure sand is NOT supposed to show up here....

    Quote Originally Posted by Galloway
    Okay, thanks.
    Yes, I actually did go over and talk to my regular pool service people. When I told him what was going on, he just said, "Hmm" and changed the subject. Before I head over to the other place in town, I would like to see if I can somehow work this out. Money is just way too tight this year.
    Thanks for you help.
    May need to ask around looking for a service company rather than a store. I think if there are no valves in the way you might also just try a plumbing service or consult one at least.
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

  16. Back To Top    #16
    stev32k's Avatar
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    Re: I'm pretty sure sand is NOT supposed to show up here....

    I believe I would disconnect the filter outlet line (that returns to the pool) then turn on the pump and see if water comes out. If it does that would indicate a plugged return line. If no water comes out that would indicate a problem with the filter or valve.
    20' x 40' IG with vinyl liner volume approx. 35,000 gal.1.5 H.P. main pump, Polaris 280 cleaner W/ 3/4 H.P. booster pump
    Hayward sand filter, 3.14 sq ft, 62 gpm. Stenner 45 MPH10 chlorine feed pump. 1 micron final filter bags (home made and very effective)

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    Re: I'm pretty sure sand is NOT supposed to show up here....

    Quote Originally Posted by stev32k
    I believe I would disconnect the filter outlet line (that returns to the pool) then turn on the pump and see if water comes out. If it does that would indicate a plugged return line. If no water comes out that would indicate a problem with the filter or valve.
    I really like that idea.
    Brings it's own set of problems... ugh.
    I'm not sure I can disconnect the outlet from the pump, it looks like it's been sealed/glued. I thought I'd try to disconnect the line where it hooks into the heater, there is a union joint that looks easier to get off. However it's been so long since it's been removed, having difficulty getting it loosened. I will work it out and see what happens.

  18. Back To Top    #18
    stev32k's Avatar
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    Re: I'm pretty sure sand is NOT supposed to show up here....

    Quote Originally Posted by Galloway
    Quote Originally Posted by stev32k
    I believe I would disconnect the filter outlet line (that returns to the pool) then turn on the pump and see if water comes out. If it does that would indicate a plugged return line. If no water comes out that would indicate a problem with the filter or valve.
    I really like that idea.
    Brings it's own set of problems... ugh.
    I'm not sure I can disconnect the outlet from the pump, it looks like it's been sealed/glued. I thought I'd try to disconnect the line where it hooks into the heater, there is a union joint that looks easier to get off. However it's been so long since it's been removed, having difficulty getting it loosened. I will work it out and see what happens.
    Disconnect the outlet from the filter not the pump. Pump to the filter and see if anything comes out.
    20' x 40' IG with vinyl liner volume approx. 35,000 gal.1.5 H.P. main pump, Polaris 280 cleaner W/ 3/4 H.P. booster pump
    Hayward sand filter, 3.14 sq ft, 62 gpm. Stenner 45 MPH10 chlorine feed pump. 1 micron final filter bags (home made and very effective)

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Re: I'm pretty sure sand is NOT supposed to show up here....

    Sorry, I meant filter, wrote pump.

  20. Back To Top    #20

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    Re: I'm pretty sure sand is NOT supposed to show up here....

    Run it in filter and stick your hand in front of one of your returns to see if the flow is normal/under/whatever. If it really is low... then look into checking the line. You mention a poolstore, did you replace the sand or did a pool person do so? Did you replace it with sand or something like zeobrite? When you take the multiport off, how high up is the sand filled?
    20k gal, IG Vinyl, IntelliFlo VF Pump, 60 GPM sand filter, Jandy Aquapure Ei 35, 2 skimmers, one main drain, two returns, Dolphin Diagnostic cleaning robot, Taylor K-2006 test kit

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