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Thread: Starting up right!

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    Victor's Avatar
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    Starting up right!

    Hello all, this is a first time post for me so please forgive me if i don't include all info needed.
    First, I live in northeast Ohio, and my IG, steel walled vinyl liner, approx. 29000 gal. pool is in the construction phase. It will be salt water ( Hayward salt system), gas heated, with 250 lb sand filter and 1.5 horse pump. My question, I've been reading post about adding borates to water when the pool has been up and running, can I start off adding everything needed while filling? , ie borates and salt. Or what else should/can I add while filling? The pool contractor just gets it going with the salt, but truly i want a trouble free pool!

    Thanks
    Victor
    IG, steel walled vinyl liner, approx. 18000 gal. swg ( Hayward salt system), gas heated, with 250 lb sand filter and 1.5 horse pump.

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    Re: Starting up right!

    Welcome to the forum.

    Take your time, Victor. You should post test results for your fill water as it goes in but I would suggest not adding anything until you post those results on the forum and have an opportunity to discuss what might need adjusting.

    Borates have nothing to do with getting your water within the correct parameters or, for that matter, having a crystal clear pool. Get up and running for a few weeks and then address borates.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Victor's Avatar
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    Re: Starting up right!

    Thanks Dave, my wife says the same thing! Ha. It's in my nature, I've always tried to be proactive vs reactive, I guess, and after install ill only have a month or so to swim before closing I want to make sure I was on the right path for up coming season!! "slow down", I see you writing it already! Ha I'll post some results as you said.

    Thanks,
    Victor
    IG, steel walled vinyl liner, approx. 18000 gal. swg ( Hayward salt system), gas heated, with 250 lb sand filter and 1.5 horse pump.

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    Re: Starting up right!

    Do you have a test kit? That really is the first step.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Victor's Avatar
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    Re: Starting up right!

    I do TF-100xl
    IG, steel walled vinyl liner, approx. 18000 gal. swg ( Hayward salt system), gas heated, with 250 lb sand filter and 1.5 horse pump.

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    Re: Starting up right!

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor
    I do TF-100xl
    Excellent! Test the fill water for everything except CYA. CYA will be zero in a new fill.

    Is your fill water well water or municipal?

    Welcome to the forum
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    Victor's Avatar
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    Re: Starting up right!

    City, I also have water softener!We were thinking of using half soft/ half not! Good idea or not? I know added expense of soft for softner, but you usually only have to do it once!

    Victor
    IG, steel walled vinyl liner, approx. 18000 gal. swg ( Hayward salt system), gas heated, with 250 lb sand filter and 1.5 horse pump.

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    Re: Starting up right!

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor
    City, I also have water softener!We were thinking of using half soft/ half not! Good idea or not? I know added expense of soft for softner, but you usually only have to do it once!

    Victor
    Around here, we tend to make decisions after we've got test results. hint, hint.

    Your best strategy is to get things balanced while using bleach. Then when you're sure there's no problems with leaks or pumps or metals or anything, add the salt and get the SWG going. And when you've got that running smooth, add borates if you want it. One thing at a time. It's much easier to solve a problem with only one variable.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Starting up right!

    Victor,

    You are off to a GREAT start. YOur 1/2 and 1/2 idea will, as Richard suggests, depend on your test results so you can tell how much CH is in your water to begin with. YOu may not have to "cut" it with softened water at all.

    So, it sounds like your next step is to sit down at the table and do the whole battery of tests on your water that bypasses the softener.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Victor's Avatar
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    Re: Starting up right!

    Thanks all!! I guess I'm just alittle to eager to get going! I'll test the bypass water and let u know!!
    Thanks again!
    IG, steel walled vinyl liner, approx. 18000 gal. swg ( Hayward salt system), gas heated, with 250 lb sand filter and 1.5 horse pump.

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    Victor's Avatar
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    Re: Starting up right!

    Ok, i finally got my pool filled and up and running with salt is in and dissolved, here my results of testing
    using TF-100

    Ph 8.2
    free Cl (when covered 5) after swim (.5-1)
    TA = 70
    Ch= 80
    CYA= <20 or zero
    3400 on SWG @65-70%

    Im adding CYA as we speak!

    my Ph should come into range after its dissolved right?
    IG, steel walled vinyl liner, approx. 18000 gal. swg ( Hayward salt system), gas heated, with 250 lb sand filter and 1.5 horse pump.

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    Smykowski's Avatar
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    Re: Starting up right!

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor
    my Ph should come into range after its dissolved right?
    I'm pretty sure this is not correct. Add muriatic acid to get your pH down manually.
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
    The most important article on this site - The ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

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    Victor's Avatar
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    Re: Starting up right!

    i was thinking it might because other post on site stated that there would a decrease in ph after adding. ( maybe wait and see) also will i/should i notice such a wide swing of free CL after CYA is dissolved?
    IG, steel walled vinyl liner, approx. 18000 gal. swg ( Hayward salt system), gas heated, with 250 lb sand filter and 1.5 horse pump.

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    Re: Starting up right!

    Go to pool calculator and at the very bottom it will tell you the effect of adding chemicals. I took 29k gallons and to get from zero to 50 CYA takes 194oz CYA/stabilizer. The pH effect of this much is lowering pH .93. How much are you adding?

    You will not notice such a wide swing in FC once you get your CYA up. With zero FC sunlight will basically zap any and all chlorine in the water within a day.

    Also remember it can take a week for CYA to accurately test after adding it. MUCH easier to add more CYA later than to remove it (water change).

    And remember from pool school you are to NEVER let your FC drop below minimum levels, if you do you run the risk of trouble/algae/baddies.
    18x36 inground vinyl lined, Hayward sand filter and tablet chrolinator, approx 18k gallon

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    Victor's Avatar
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    Re: Starting up right!

    I did! To get to a reading 70 of cya, Im adding 169 oz by weight of dry cya. And I saw a post where the drop in ph was comparable to the one you mentioned so I'm hoping for the same. So wait until dissolved before adjusting correct?
    IG, steel walled vinyl liner, approx. 18000 gal. swg ( Hayward salt system), gas heated, with 250 lb sand filter and 1.5 horse pump.

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    Re: Starting up right!

    I'd keep an eye on pH as the test max is 8.2, you could be higher. You're going to want to have some muriatic acid on hand anyway.Your pH will likely drift up over time with your SWG.

    Sounds like you've got a handle on testing and using pool calculator and what to do. You're well on your way to a trouble free pool.
    18x36 inground vinyl lined, Hayward sand filter and tablet chrolinator, approx 18k gallon

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    Re: Starting up right!

    Victor,
    Disregard my comment above, I read it wrong. I thought you were talking about the salt.

    You are correct, CYA will lower pH. Keep an eye on it though; you really don't want you pH going above 8.0 for any amount of time

    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
    The most important article on this site - The ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

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    Victor's Avatar
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    Re: Starting up right!

    Thanks I have one more question. My pool builder estimated my gal size of my pool at about 18000, but according to all the calculators I'm about 28000 which should I believe? 18x36 double roman end 8.5ft deep end 3ft shallow! I didn't pay attention to water meter when I started filling and the build purchased 9k of water for the pool which took it to the bottom of shallow end!
    IG, steel walled vinyl liner, approx. 18000 gal. swg ( Hayward salt system), gas heated, with 250 lb sand filter and 1.5 horse pump.

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    Re: Starting up right!

    Then use measurements from the fill to full, thats a constant depth of 3 feet.

    We have similar pools. I highly doubt it's less than 20 as mine is only 5 feet at deep end.

    18x36x3feet = 14500 gallons, not including the roman ends. Add 9k=23500. Your chemical measurements with baking soda/borax will tell you if you're close or not, you don't have to be super precise on this. But starting out err on the low side with volume so you don't overshoot, you'll figure it out. To this day if I'm making big changes I do 3/4 what pool calc tells me and test to confirm if I need the other 1/4.
    18x36 inground vinyl lined, Hayward sand filter and tablet chrolinator, approx 18k gallon

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    Victor's Avatar
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    Re: Starting up right!

    Ok CYA has been add and in solution for about 48 hours. It seems as if it's working already my FC the last 2 days have been >5-10 ( deep yellow) i went down from 60% to 40% on SWG over the 2 days I know you guys said my CYA probably would not show on test, but I tested and it's reading at 35. My calculation called for about 11 .5 lbs, I only added 8lbs to be safe, should I wait to add the rest? And also are these FC reading to be expected?
    Thanks for the help
    Victor
    IG, steel walled vinyl liner, approx. 18000 gal. swg ( Hayward salt system), gas heated, with 250 lb sand filter and 1.5 horse pump.

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