New Homeowner - CLEAN POOL [back to shocking.]

[chem geek]

Re: New Homeowner - Green Pool [STILL shocking. :: sigh ::]

Anyone have a guess as to what causes this phenomenon to happen?

It is described technically in the thread Degradation of Cyanuric Acid (CYA). Note that depending on the type of bacteria, you may not end up with ammonia. Some bacteria will go further and produce nitrogen gas, nitrite or nitrate. If they produce nitrogen gas or nitrate, you won't have chlorine demand from the chemical conversion. If they produce nitrite or ammonia or if they only partially degrade CYA, then you will have potentially a lot of chlorine demand. Unfortunately, it is not easy to control the bacteria to do what you want, but explains why some people open their pools with no CYA where some do not have high chlorine demand while others do.

 

[RockstarSD]

Re: New Homeowner - CLEAN POOL [WOOOOHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!]

May have spoken a bit too soon, though not entirely certain. 4 of us swam for about an hour, then ate dinner, and I just went out and backflushed and added more DE to the filter.

We're currently at

fc: 4
cc: 1.5
nh3: 0

So we're still good on the ammonia levels, but we must have been pretty dirty. I don't have enough bleach on hand to raise to shock level, so I am considering using some of my [sarcasm] wonderful [/sarcasm] trichlor (with copper :/ ) pucks to raise my CYA up some and help get me through the night.

On second thought, I really should do a full panel first, so I'm going to start with my 182oz of bleach and run a full panel in an hour before I make any more decisions.

 

[UnderWaterVanya]

Re: New Homeowner - CLEAN POOL [WOOOOHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!]

On second thought, I really should do a full panel first, so I'm going to start with my 182oz of bleach and run a full panel in an hour before I make any more decisions.

Well played Mr. Ryan... well played!

 

[RockstarSD]

Re: New Homeowner - CLEAN POOL [WOOOOHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!]

Not out of the woods yet, it seems. Full panel before bed:

fc: 5.5
cc: 1.5
pH: 7.2
ta: 330
ch: 330
cya: 40 ( can't test, it's dark. assuming from previous result)
nh3: 0

So the game plan for this evening is... Do nothing. I only have trichlor pucks and dichlor granules - each of which lower ph too much even in low quantities to be safe until I can aerate or add soda ash.

I should have enough fc to get me through the night, and tomorrow I can go pick up some more chlorine and perhaps do some PVC shopping to make an aerator.

I really did think I was out of the woods, but, the process continues.

 

[UnderWaterVanya]

Re: New Homeowner - CLEAN POOL [WOOOOHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!]

That just stinks...

 

[chem geek]

Re: New Homeowner - CLEAN POOL [WOOOOHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!]

You've probably gotten rid of the stuff that oxidizes relatively quickly, namely the ammonia, but now may be dealing with some partially oxidized CYA and that can take a little longer, but if it's like what happened to me, then it's only a matter of a day or two for the CC to come down. Now that you are holding FC, you should check your CYA level and add more if needed so that the chlorine doesn't get broken down too quickly in the sun. You do want sun on the pool at this point as that can help get rid of the CC.

 

[RockstarSD]

Re: New Homeowner - CLEAN POOL [WOOOOHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!]

Clearly something is still going on:

fc: .5
cc: .5
nh3: 0

The pool is in pretty direct sunlight from 8ish am until 5ish pm. That's 9 hours of direct sun per day. If what I'm reading over at the pool calc chemsitry section, I should probably try to maintain CYA at 70 or so when it's time to start maintaining CYA. I'll run another CYA test a little later when the sun is a bit more above the horizon.

For now I'm going to leave CYA where it's at and shock a bit longer. Off to the store for bleach I go. Again. I swear, my local Wal-Mart is going to think I'm making meth or something with all the bleach I'm taking down recently.

 

[UnderWaterVanya]

Re: New Homeowner - CLEAN POOL [WOOOOHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!]

Clearly something is still going on:

fc: .5
cc: .5
nh3: 0

Overnight? That's not too odd if you still aren't completely done with the process. Chem geek can chime in with real authority but his experience isn't that far off from what I recall reading.

The pool is in pretty direct sunlight from 8ish am until 5ish pm. That's 9 hours of direct sun per day. If what I'm reading over at the pool calc chemsitry section, I should probably try to maintain CYA at 70 or so when it's time to start maintaining CYA. I'll run another CYA test a little later when the sun is a bit more above the horizon.

If you don't have an SWG - most folks here don't think going higher than 50 is needed.

I swear, my local Wal-Mart is going to think I'm making meth or something with all the bleach I'm taking down recently.

Nah... they just think you have a commercial laundrymat.

 

[chem geek]

Re: New Homeowner - CLEAN POOL [WOOOOHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!]

So are you saying it lost 5 ppm FC overnight? If so, then yes, it's still oxidizing something in the pool. Just keep the chlorine up and this rate of overnight loss should drop, hopefully soon.

 

[denisrenepl]

Re: New Homeowner - CLEAN POOL [WOOOOHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!]

Ryan... What about some pictures?

 

[RockstarSD]

I got really busy working yesterday and didn't test at all since yesterday morning until now.

fc: 0
cc: .5
nh3: .25
pH: 7.2
cya: 30

I've also had to backwash twice now since we swam the other day. I'm going to have to bring it back up to shock level for a while.

I've got 2 182oz jugs of 6% - those are going in. As for what else is happening, I'm not sure. My better half is getting really upset at the amount of money I am literally dumping into the pool, so I may have to use the dichlor and trichlor (plus copper) that I have in order to keep her sane. The problem with that is if I use those, my pH drops pretty significantly and I have to deal with that, and that's going to involve more money spent on soda ash. I think the soda ash was like 8 bucks for 8 lbs, and I could get away with about 10 lbs with the drops i'd expect from the dichlor and trichlor, so that may be an option. Except the stupid copper. Oi.

 

[UnderWaterVanya]

I got really busy working yesterday and didn't test at all since yesterday morning until now.

fc: 0
cc: .5
nh3: .25
pH: 7.2
cya: 30

I've also had to backwash twice now since we swam the other day. I'm going to have to bring it back up to shock level for a while.

I've got 2 182oz jugs of 6% - those are going in. As for what else is happening, I'm not sure. My better half is getting really upset at the amount of money I am literally dumping into the pool, so I may have to use the dichlor and trichlor (plus copper) that I have in order to keep her sane. The problem with that is if I use those, my pH drops pretty significantly and I have to deal with that, and that's going to involve more money spent on soda ash. I think the soda ash was like 8 bucks for 8 lbs, and I could get away with about 10 lbs with the drops i'd expect from the dichlor and trichlor, so that may be an option. Except the stupid copper. Oi.

The bleach normally is not very expensive compared with the -chlor choices other than I'm guessing you already bought it? Can you sell it on Craigslist? Maybe you need to try the -chlor option for a day or two and see what that does so she will understand it's not the chemicals that are at fault here - the water was filled with nasties and that takes work to get rid of...

Reality is that adding the -chlor type chlorines is going to add cya and reduce your ability to shock. Nothing wrong with using both if you want to raise CYA but that's better done after you are holding FC overnight.

 

[RockstarSD]

Yeah, exactly. She doesn't really understand and doesn't really want to understand the chemistry that goes on behind maintaining a pool. I can't sell it. Even to someone that wants to buy it - I have a hard time accepting the karmic repercussions of pool storing someone, even if they're begging for it.

I'm going to stick with the bleach method. It's a little bit more expensive now vs. the -chlor that I already have, but in the long run it's going to be cheaper and easier to deal with. I'm also going to look into a SWCG system next year. We had one at the old place. If it's still there when I'm back there in a month I'm going to take it with me and let the bank deal with the messed up pool situation at that house.

 

[UnderWaterVanya]

Yeah, exactly. She doesn't really understand and doesn't really want to understand the chemistry that goes on behind maintaining a pool. I can't sell it. Even to someone that wants to buy it - I have a hard time accepting the karmic repercussions of pool storing someone, even if they're begging for it.

The reality is I'm in the same boat only a little less so. I have my wife fully on board with bleach - it helps that we didn't have a swamp - just a mild green cloudiness when we took over and I bombed it with an algaecide and dichlor not knowing any better. Within a week I switched to BBB and she's seen the positive results and doesn't complain.

However I have a 25lb tub of 3" tabs, and about 8 lbs of dichlor shock...

My plan is to use the dichlor if I need to raise CYA quickly (if over the winter I lose CYA for example) and use the pucks when I go on vacation.

I think selling them is OK karma if you let try to tell anyone know who calls that they could just use bleach and point them to Trouble Free Pool... if they don't get the message and still want them; they will get them from the store anyway so you have saved them a few bucks and reduced their cost should they switch later.