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Thread: Automation Question

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    Automation Question

    I'm trying to understand exactly what would be needed to automate a pool I'm having built.

    Pumps:
    2 speed main pump
    Booster pump for Polaris 280
    Single speed water features pump with 2 independent features controlled by 3 way valves with actuators

    Lights:
    LED x 2 (wired together)

    Program Needs:
    High speed to include booster for cleaning
    Low Speed without booster for filtering
    Water feature (A, B, or A&B to be controlled by actuators)
    Lights on/off

    Am I correct in my understanding that the 4-Relay systems would not work because I need to use 5 (2 for dual speed pump and 1 each for booster pump, lights, and water feature pump)? I've researched the Pentair/Hayward/Jandy options until I'm almost more confused than when I started.

    Second question....any idea how the water features should be plumbed to achieve A, B, or A&B? Should it be: pump-->3 way valve-->one leg to A; other leg to 3 way valve --> one leg to B; other leg to pool return so that I can have only A open, only B open, or both A&B open. The return would be in place in case both valves are accidentally shut which would allow the flow back into the pool.
    IG vinyl, 11,000 gal, Hayward Pro Series S244T High Rate Sand Filter, Zodiac LM3-24 SWG, Sta-Rite PEA5E-181L 1HP pump

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Automation Question

    [Edited] You only need 3 relays and 3 actuators if you're only going to have 1 pump.

    1. Pump High/low Speed.
    2. Booster Pump.
    3. Lights.

    a. Water Feature "A"
    b. Water Feature "B"
    c. Pool Returns.

    If you have two pumps you'll need 4 relays and 2 actuators.

    1. Pump High/low Speed.
    2. Booster Pump.
    3. Water Feature Pump.
    4. Lights.

    a. Water Feature "A"
    b. Water Feature "B"

    Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Automation Question

    Why would I need a actuator on the returns? I was thinking my pool returns would be completely separate from the return for the water features. Is that not proper or recommended?
    IG vinyl, 11,000 gal, Hayward Pro Series S244T High Rate Sand Filter, Zodiac LM3-24 SWG, Sta-Rite PEA5E-181L 1HP pump

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    Re: Automation Question

    You only need 4 relays. One two speed relay, one for cleaner, one for water feature, and one for lights. You don't need relays for valve actuators.
    Factory Warranty Station for:
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    and Paramount pool cleaning systems.

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Automation Question

    PC is correct! I completely spaced on the fact that the actuators don't use relays.

    I edited my earlier post so someone won't get confused in the future.
    You're right about needing more than 4 relays.

    I think you'll need more besides the ones you've listed. You'll also need one to operate a separate actuator on the return.
    1. Pump High Speed.
    2. Pump Low Speed.
    3. Booster Pump.
    4. Water Feature "A".
    5. Water Feature "B".
    6. Pool Returns.

    That way you can program anyway you want.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Automation Question

    Ok, so only 4 relays are needed assuming one is 2 speed. Are either of the 2 budget automation systems, OnCommand or SunTouch, compatible with this setup? I didn't mention Jandy because I can't find a system in this price range. However, if I must consider a larger system, the increased cost would certainly move me into Jandy territory.

    Thanks!
    IG vinyl, 11,000 gal, Hayward Pro Series S244T High Rate Sand Filter, Zodiac LM3-24 SWG, Sta-Rite PEA5E-181L 1HP pump

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Automation Question

    You would need a way to close, or partially close, the returns to the pool if using one pump in order to increase the pressure to the features enough for them to operate correctly. That's the only reason you'd need one.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Automation Question

    Quote Originally Posted by rlyrock
    I'm trying to understand exactly what would be needed to automate a pool I'm having built.

    Pumps:
    2 speed main pump
    Booster pump for Polaris 280
    Single speed water features pump with 2 independent features controlled by 3 way valves with actuators

    Lights:
    LED x 2 (wired together)

    Program Needs:
    High speed to include booster for cleaning
    Low Speed without booster for filtering
    Water feature (A, B, or A&B to be controlled by actuators)
    Lights on/off

    Am I correct in my understanding that the 4-Relay systems would not work because I need to use 5 (2 for dual speed pump and 1 each for booster pump, lights, and water feature pump)? I've researched the Pentair/Hayward/Jandy options until I'm almost more confused than when I started.

    Second question....any idea how the water features should be plumbed to achieve A, B, or A&B? Should it be: pump-->3 way valve-->one leg to A; other leg to 3 way valve --> one leg to B; other leg to pool return so that I can have only A open, only B open, or both A&B open. The return would be in place in case both valves are accidentally shut which would allow the flow back into the pool.
    I'm not sure how other systems work, but with my Goldline Aqua Logic PS-4 you would need five relays in your situation, since you want to automatically control your 2-speed pump in both low-speed and high-speed. (Two relays for the 2-speed pump, one for the booster pump, one for the water features pump, and one for the lights.)

    As for your second question, why wouldn't you just go from the water features pump to a 3-way valve with one leg going to A and the other to B? There is no danger of A and B being closed at the same time. If you don't want any water coming out of A or B, just turn off the water features pump.

    You didn't say what kind of water features you are running, but is it more than the 2-speed pump can handle on high speed? Eliminating the water features pump would allow you to use a four-relay control system. You could then set up the plumbing as follows: 2-speed pump to 3-way valve with one leg going to the pool return and the other going to another 3-way valve for the water features (A and B). Most systems can control at least two valve actuators, so you would be able to automate the two 3-way valves.

    The other possibility is to buy a single speed pump for the pool. Unless you plan to manually vacuum your pool, you don't need a high-speed pump to run the booster pump for the Polaris. I don't have a vacuum hose and just use the Pentair Mini Vac which attaches to a hose for cleaning my spa.
    22k gallon IG Anthony free-form pool and spa with PebbleSheen finish, Pentair WFDS-8 WhisperFlo Full Rated Dual-Speed 2HP pool pump, Sta-Rite S8D110 System 3 Grid D.E. 53 sq. ft. pool filter, Raypak R406A 399K BTU cupro-nickel propane heater, Polaris 280 pool cleaner with 3/4 HP PB4-60 booster pump, Goldline Aqua Plus controller and SWG, Inter-Fab G-Force pool slide.

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Automation Question

    The OnCommand uses an aux relay for the low speed of a 2-speed pump.
    The SunTouch uses an optional 2-speed relay but it consumes the aux-3 position.

    Neither of those will provide for a 2-speed pump and 3 other relays.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Automation Question

    Are you going to include a salt water chlorine generator for the pool? If so, you can purchase an Easytouch 4 with IC40 for about the price of a simple automation setup (e.g. Suntouch) plus separate SWCG. You should consider this. The ET4 would handle your needs. Hayward and Jandy/Zodiac probably have similar setups with SWCG's included for around a similar price point.
    38K in ground pool with attached spa. Current equipment: Easytouch 8 (521150) with IC-60 SWCG with web control by Autelis, 1x Pentair IntelliFlo 011018 pump (for filter), 1x Pentair 2HP WhisperFlo pump (for waterfall), 2X Pentair IntelliBrite 5G 12V lights, Pentair MiniMax400 NG Heater, Pentair SMBW2060 DE filter. Zodiac Barracuda MX8 cleaner on dedicated cleaner line. Lighting/home automation controlled by Insteon/ISY-99i.

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    Re: Automation Question

    Hmmm.....Thanks for all the replies. Not exactly the answer I wanted, but I'm thankful for all the constructive answers. I'm trying to keep my costs in check but get all the features I want (aren't we all??) .

    Per an earlier suggestion in a PM, I may rethink the Polaris 280 and go for a pressure side cleaner that doesn't require a separate booster pump. That would cut down on electricity usage and mean one less relay needed.

    I'm currently slated for a Jandy Aquapure tied into the main pump via mechanical timer, so I wasn't really planning anything special regarding that and automation. I did not figure I would be adjusting the output often enough to justify automating it (but what do I know?).

    The water features are 3 sheer descents and 2 in-pool bubblers with a Hayward Super II 1 hp pump and I was wanting to be able to select the sheers, the bubblers, or both. Question.....does the water for the sheers/bubblers typically come from the pool via a dedicated supply line (not through the filter) or is it typically from the skimmer/suction line and through the filter and main pump? If filtered, maybe it would make sense to dump the 1 hp and the main pump (currently a single speed Hayward Super II 2hp) and get either a VS or 2-speed pump to handle everything. Would 2 hp still be enough or would I need to step it up?
    IG vinyl, 11,000 gal, Hayward Pro Series S244T High Rate Sand Filter, Zodiac LM3-24 SWG, Sta-Rite PEA5E-181L 1HP pump

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    Re: Automation Question

    Quote Originally Posted by rlyrock
    I'm trying to keep my costs in check but get all the features I want (aren't we all??) .
    Then get a Sun Touch, and operate the water feature(s) manually. You may see some fittings on the wall of the pool that look like main drains, that is where the water feature gets it's water from.
    Factory Warranty Station for:
    Jandy/Zodiac, Pentair, Sta-Rite, Raypak, Polaris,
    and Paramount pool cleaning systems.

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    Re: Automation Question

    Again, I'll emphasize that for less than the price of a Suntouch (say $450) and Aquapure 1400 (say $900), you can get an Easytouch 4 plus IC40 salt system (520593). Actually, since it doesn't appear you are getting a spa, you just need the single body of water system, which along with the IC40, turns out to be quite a bit cheaper than the Aquapure plus Suntouch option. Plus, the two integrate, so you can control the percentage of chlorine output via the Easytouch panel.

    http://www.a1poolparts.com/-strse-906/P ... Detail.bok
    38K in ground pool with attached spa. Current equipment: Easytouch 8 (521150) with IC-60 SWCG with web control by Autelis, 1x Pentair IntelliFlo 011018 pump (for filter), 1x Pentair 2HP WhisperFlo pump (for waterfall), 2X Pentair IntelliBrite 5G 12V lights, Pentair MiniMax400 NG Heater, Pentair SMBW2060 DE filter. Zodiac Barracuda MX8 cleaner on dedicated cleaner line. Lighting/home automation controlled by Insteon/ISY-99i.

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