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Thread: Newly converted to Salt Water, new water, low FC levels

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    Newly converted to Salt Water, new water, low FC levels

    So here is the story, will try not to make this a book.

    --------------------------------
    Pool info:
    Approximately 14,000 gal pool
    Sta-Rite 2hp P6E6-208L main pump
    Jandy CL-580 cartridge filter
    Jandy LX400 heater
    Jandy Aquapure Ei
    Aqualink RS8 RevL
    --------------------------------

    So initially about 4weeks ago we bought the house, it was a chlorine pool. The previous owner I feel never changed the water in the 5-6yrs he had the pool (had it installed in 2006). I have a Taylor 2006 kit and tested the CYA, it was through the roof, we talking 300-350 levels (had to dilute the sample 4:1 just to get a reading). So that meant I had to change about 85-90% of the water to get it down to at least 50 level. So we drained about 95% of it. We filled it back up with fresh water. Then decided at that point Im converting it to salt water. So dropped in about 14bags of 40lb salt which got me to about 4200ppm Salinity. Got the PH to about 7.4 to 7.5 area. Dropped in about 25lbs of Calcium Chloride and that is about 250-260ppm. TA is sitting at 80ppm after adding some Sodium Bicarbonate. CYA is sitting at 50-60 ppm now.

    Now that pump (Sta-Rite P6E6G-208L) is a 2hp pump and I got maybe 40-50ft of line on the suction side, so looking at the chart Im probably sitting at 110GPM flow. Im waiting on a flow gauge to arrive so I can put it on the pipe to see realistically how much Im at (Im going to say Im really more like 80-90GPM).

    Now at those GPM rates, even at 80GPM and 14,000gal pool I can change the water over in the entire pool in say 3hrs. I run the pump scheduled from 9am to 1pm (so 4hrs). Right now the Aquapure is set to run for 100% of the time during the 4hrs. Each time for the past 5 days I check the FC levels in the pool around 1pm or so, I only have maybe 0.5PPM. Just doesnt seem right since the manual for the Aquapure Ei shows it can make 0.62oz of Chlorine gas per hour at full 100%. Now even if we take that we would make 2.4oz of Chlorine gas for that 4hr period, using the pool calculator, that alone even from 0ppm FC should put me at almost 1.5ppm.

    So then I call Jandy support. They tell me I should be running the pump for 14hrs, that seems insane for a pool this small. in 14hrs Id change the water over 4.5x. The tech still insisted I try it. So I said fine, I decided to run the pump for an entire 24hr period. At the end of the 24hr period, I rechecked the FC levels using the FAS/DPD test in the Taylor 2006 kit. Now during that 24hr period again the chlorine generator cell was still set to 100%, so according to the manual I shouldve made 0.62oz X 24hrs = 14.9oz of Chlorine gas. Using the pool calculator, youd expect my FC then to be close to 8ppm if we use the starting point of 0.5ppm when the 24hr period started. So I check the levels, and Im basically at 1.5ppm on the FAS/DPD test. That just seems wrong to me. How is it that after 24hrs of nonstop running that I ONLY have 1.5ppm FC level? Im trying to achieve 4ppm as the TFT recommends, and it seems an impossibility.

    I again call Jandy, and the tech support woman claims that I will never get above 3ppm, and personally she has never seen more than 3ppm on a Salt Water based pool unless liquid chlorine was added. I kept arguing with the tech that 14oz of Chlorine gas clearly shouldve put me at 8ppm, she claims no. I dont understand how.

    Then she tells me maybe my phosphate levels are high, not sure how that is going to affect my FC. I dont have a test for it and it fresh water out of Atlanta area water, so dont know what my local city water levels for phosphate are. She also then tries to tell me I should instead run a variable speed pump because maybe Im running too much GPM (like 110 according to the Sta-Rite chart) and the chlorine generator isnt able to properly produce gas. I honestly feel that cant be true.

    Looking for any assistance here. This kit is only 4weeks old (the Salt water chlorine cell and power pack) and Jandy now wont replace it until I have a pool tech come out to test that its getting proper voltage into the cell, etc, even though I know it is based on volt meter I have, she wont listen to me cause it has to be done by a service tech and that means I have to pay someone just to tell me what I know, flipping Jandy is killing me.

    BTW, my water is crystal clear, no algea issues, nothing wrong with it, looks perfect. Side note right now Im only at 0.2ppm based on the FAS/DPD test (been a few days now since the 24hr run I did, back to 4hr runtime).

    Dixit
    Picture of Pool
    14,000 Gallon Freeform Plaster based pool. 1,000 Gallon Spa with Spillage Basin. Jandy Aquapure Ei Salt Water Chlorine Generator. Jandy CL580 Cartridge Filter. Sta-Rite P6E6G-208L Filter Pump. Jandy JHP2.0 Spillage Pump. Jandy LX400 Heater. Caretaker 99 Floor cleaner. Polaris Leaf-B-Gone. iAqualink.

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    techguy's Avatar
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    Re: Newly converted to Salt Water, new water, low FC levels

    It would help is your profile indicated where you live.

    One thing that could have consumed the CL is the sun. I know I lose 4-5 PPM per day to the sun. Looks like ChemGeek will be needed here.
    -- Guy --
    10K gallons in 21' Round 52 inch wall Aqualeader AG, Hayward Power Flow LX 1.5 HP pump motor, Hayward Perflex EC50AC DE filter w/Cellulose, Wide mouth skimmer, 2013 new Diver Dan (craigslist) to replace the faded old Hayward AquaBug. TF-100

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    Re: Newly converted to Salt Water, new water, low FC levels

    Live in Duluth GA, its a suburb of Atlanta. I mentioned Atlanta in where I was talking about the water levels from the city.

    Well as far as the sun I know that the time the entire 24hr period test was done with the pump and cell running, there was no sun that day, it was overcast for the entire day. So that ruled out and chlorine loss from the sun burning it up.

    Im confused cause obviously Jandy tech claims all I need to be at is 1ppm, and I would NEVER (and she stressed it multiple times) see higher than 3ppm in a salt water chlorine generator based pool unless liquid chlorine was added. At that rate then Id never hit the 4ppm that TFP recommends in the pool school about Salt water based pools.

    Dixit
    Picture of Pool
    14,000 Gallon Freeform Plaster based pool. 1,000 Gallon Spa with Spillage Basin. Jandy Aquapure Ei Salt Water Chlorine Generator. Jandy CL580 Cartridge Filter. Sta-Rite P6E6G-208L Filter Pump. Jandy JHP2.0 Spillage Pump. Jandy LX400 Heater. Caretaker 99 Floor cleaner. Polaris Leaf-B-Gone. iAqualink.

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    Re: Newly converted to Salt Water, new water, low FC levels

    Keeping a salt pool at 4ppm is not hard, mine's at 4ppm, SWG at 70%, and it's 106 outside. And I have a slightly larger pool than you, too.

    Here are the key factors:
    1. Make SURE you can pass the OCLT - pool-school/overnight_fc_test
    2. Make sure your CYA level is around 70-80
    3. Run your pump long enough for the SWCG to do it's job.

    Looks like you've already ruled #3 out, so my recommendation is to start with #1. If you have any organics in the pool chewing away at your FC, it's a battle you will not win.
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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    Re: Newly converted to Salt Water, new water, low FC levels

    I can try the overnight test, but right now its going to be a problem in that reading that test, it talks about losing less than 1.0ppm is ok. If Im currently barely at 0.2 or 0.5ppm, then even if that drops to zero its less than 1.

    I will say that 3-4weeks ago (before the SW cell was installed and fully running), I didnt have any chlorine adders. So I decided to add 3 full 184oz 6% Chlorox bleech jugs to "shock" it and make sure the water was clean and good to go, then the SW generator was running full tilt after that. So I know I have no Chloromines or Algae (since the water was cleanly added about 6weeks ago) and the FAS-DPD CC test never turns pink.

    Dixit
    Picture of Pool
    14,000 Gallon Freeform Plaster based pool. 1,000 Gallon Spa with Spillage Basin. Jandy Aquapure Ei Salt Water Chlorine Generator. Jandy CL580 Cartridge Filter. Sta-Rite P6E6G-208L Filter Pump. Jandy JHP2.0 Spillage Pump. Jandy LX400 Heater. Caretaker 99 Floor cleaner. Polaris Leaf-B-Gone. iAqualink.

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    techguy's Avatar
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    Re: Newly converted to Salt Water, new water, low FC levels

    Sorry, I missed the Atlanta in your text block. I have been to Dublin and few hundred other GA towns... but not Duluth. In a two week period I went from Dalton to Valdosta. My other trips were ATL to Augusta or ATL to Savannah. I never did go up towards Duluth.

    Good luck.
    -- Guy --
    10K gallons in 21' Round 52 inch wall Aqualeader AG, Hayward Power Flow LX 1.5 HP pump motor, Hayward Perflex EC50AC DE filter w/Cellulose, Wide mouth skimmer, 2013 new Diver Dan (craigslist) to replace the faded old Hayward AquaBug. TF-100

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    Re: Newly converted to Salt Water, new water, low FC levels

    You will have to bring your FC up using Clorox before performing the OCLT. And make sure your SWG is off before you start.

    You can't guarantee you killed everything with the one-time addition. Shocking your pool is a process.
    pool-school/shocking_your_pool
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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    UN1017's Avatar
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    Re: Newly converted to Salt Water, new water, low FC levels

    Don't know why Jandy would tell you that. My pump runs 6hrs with SWG at 40% and has no problems maintaining an FC of 4. Just do what RobbieH said and hit it with bleach again.

    The first time you prob only got it to a FC of ~19. Get it to the recommended 24 and see what it does. The troubleshooting portion of the Ei does say to shock if chlorine generator cannot maintain. But the Jandy lady did say that you'll never get above 3.
    15'x30' IG - Roman-style - 14K - Pebble Fina Classico
    Filter: Jandy CL460 Pump: Jandy Stealth SHPF1.5 SWG: Jandy AquaPure 1400 Cleaner: Jandy RayVac Test Kit: TF-100 w/SpeedStir

    Chlorine/CYA Chart----Extended Test Kit Directions----SLAM

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    Re: Newly converted to Salt Water, new water, low FC levels

    Quote Originally Posted by Dixit
    I can try the overnight test, but right now its going to be a problem in that reading that test, it talks about losing less than 1.0ppm is ok. If Im currently barely at 0.2 or 0.5ppm, then even if that drops to zero its less than 1.

    I will say that 3-4weeks ago (before the SW cell was installed and fully running), I didnt have any chlorine adders. So I decided to add 3 full 184oz 6% Chlorox bleech jugs to "shock" it and make sure the water was clean and good to go, then the SW generator was running full tilt after that. So I know I have no Chloromines or Algae (since the water was cleanly added about 6weeks ago) and the FAS-DPD CC test never turns pink.

    Dixit
    Ditto to what was said above. SWGs are meant to maintain chlorine levels. Major adjustments to increase FC levels is the job of liquid chlorine. No reason to try and tax your salt cell when plain old chlorox can do that.

    Also...6 weeks is a long time for things to go wrong with your water. the OCLT is the only way to confirm if you have anything other than sunlight consuming FC. Even on an overcast day, UV rays deplete FC just as folks can get sunburned on a cloudy day, albeit not as drastic as on a clear day.
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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    Re: Newly converted to Salt Water, new water, low FC levels

    UN1017, appreciate the info. I will go to Costco tomorrow to get some more consumables and while Im at it might as well get 2 cartons of their 3pack (184oz jugs) for $10. Drop in lets say enough to get at 24 or slightly higher just to make sure.

    dmanb2b, agree on the salt cell getting taxed. Thats why I only did a 24hr period to see what happened. Maybe there truly is some algae eating away at my FC levels. Will get the FC upto 1.5ppm or so first with liquid chlorine, then do the OCLT as you say see if Im at less then 0.5ppm and if so, might as well give it a solid shock as mentioned above.

    Dixit
    Picture of Pool
    14,000 Gallon Freeform Plaster based pool. 1,000 Gallon Spa with Spillage Basin. Jandy Aquapure Ei Salt Water Chlorine Generator. Jandy CL580 Cartridge Filter. Sta-Rite P6E6G-208L Filter Pump. Jandy JHP2.0 Spillage Pump. Jandy LX400 Heater. Caretaker 99 Floor cleaner. Polaris Leaf-B-Gone. iAqualink.

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    Re: Newly converted to Salt Water, new water, low FC levels

    You last post sounds contradictory ...

    Add bleach to target a FC of about 24ppm. Test the FC level at least an hour later after the sun is down. Then test the FC again in the morning before the sun comes up.

    Better to do the OCLT at higher FC levels and not at around 1.5ppm
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    Re: Newly converted to Salt Water, new water, low FC levels

    I battled the same thing with an Aquarite in a commercial pool. Hayward recommend CYA be at 80. Raised it to 80 & still no luck. A SWG will produce chlorine and and keep it in the water, but it's best to start with a substantial amount of Chlorine in the pool.
    "When your pool is sick, call the doctor, I make house calls"
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    Re: Newly converted to Salt Water, new water, low FC levels

    jblizzle, sorry I meant to say Im going to get the Chlorine jugs tomorrow since Im running by Costco anyways. Then before I do anything as far as shocking going to drop in enough bleech to say get it to 4ppm, then do the OCLT to see where Im truly at as far as Chlorine loss over night when I check it the following morning. If I losing more than 1ppm, then I will do the math to see how many Jugs and Ounces I need to push me to slightly higher than shock level. Im going to also check the CYA right before that to make sure I calculate the right amount of shock amount needed.

    AquaDoctorLLC, Yea this is bugging me right now. I have another house with almost a 40,000 gal pool and it has a Zodiac LM2-40 salt water chlorine cell and clearly I have no issues on getting that to 4ppm. I even told the Zodiac support woman cause she tried to get smart with me by saying "have you ever owned a salt water chlorine generator based pool?" this is when I basically called BS on her statement of "you will never get above 3ppm in a salt cell pool". I told her "yes my other house has YOUR salt cell and clearly does 4ppm all day long". This woman didnt seem to want to help, seemed to want to poke holes in all my theories and tell me its my problem.

    Dixit
    Picture of Pool
    14,000 Gallon Freeform Plaster based pool. 1,000 Gallon Spa with Spillage Basin. Jandy Aquapure Ei Salt Water Chlorine Generator. Jandy CL580 Cartridge Filter. Sta-Rite P6E6G-208L Filter Pump. Jandy JHP2.0 Spillage Pump. Jandy LX400 Heater. Caretaker 99 Floor cleaner. Polaris Leaf-B-Gone. iAqualink.

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