Allright, TPF alumni changing pool water in real time

[SPP]

Hi Gang,

I want to share my story for members who are still trying BBB method. This is a moral boost and patience is the key, aside from reading what the TPF seniors have painstakingly wrote. I come rarely now to this forum but I do report anything I do in my pool in a big way. This is my documentation.

I am now at 2,070 TDS and my water in my mouth does not taste as good as when it was 1000ish TDS.
I am not using saltwater. I know my water so well, my nose and mouth is the detection mechanism...

So I planned to replace near half of my pool water, or 68,000 liters or approx 18,000 gallons.
Why I won't replace a 100% is because there is ground water in my pool and I am not risking my pool getting lift up when it is empty, it does and have happened in some areas.

If you see the trio small pumps for discharging the water, actually only 1 work and that is only 30 liters
perminute or 7.9 US gallons. I sent the discharged water to my ground water well .....really I did.
I reduced the clhorine to 0.5 PPM before I sent it to my well.

My ground water is so bad in quality and I use it as back up only to my city water and I am hoping by sending 68K liters I will make it less "dry". To use my well water, I have to apply membrane technology for making it "useable", not for drinking but to make it good enough. Nano membrane was chosen as ultra filtration can't handle it and reverse osmosis membrane not needed. The reason I need to have well water and such a waste of money using nano membrane is because my city water supply is not reliable. Sometime it may stop for 2 days or when like now the dry season, the water quality is really bad.

Back to the pool...........

I sent my pool water for lab check to make sure I know what is in them.
EDIT : The test is for drinking water standard, that is what I need to see the more detailed breakdown.
To imperial boys, mg/L is milligram per liter or the same as PPM


[attachment=2:ufdcdb2u]Water Test Result.jpg[/attachment:ufdcdb2u]

[attachment=1:ufdcdb2u]Day 1 - 5PM clarity check at 4 meter deep end.JPG[/attachment:ufdcdb2u]

[attachment=0:ufdcdb2u]Day 1 - 31st July 5PM - Draining 68000 liters or 17989 gallons in progress.JPG[/attachment:ufdcdb2u]

Will Continue............

 

[SPP]

I purposely use small pump to make sure my ground water well is not flooded.......

[attachment=2:2clks5n4]Day 1 - 31st July 8PM - Draining 68000 liters or 17989 gallons in progress.JPG[/attachment:2clks5n4]

[attachment=1:2clks5n4]Day 2 - 1st August 8AM - Draining 68000 liters or 17989 gallons in progress.JPG[/attachment:2clks5n4]


So I went to sleep and the water trucks said they will come at 10ish PM July 31st.
My staff will handle the affair. There is no way I can fill my pool with city water because the flow is so slow, I cant get more than 5,000 liters a day. So water must be delivered by trucks, no choice. 3rd world country dilema :grrrr:

I woke up at 2nd August 1AM and they already pumped near 6 trucks x 8000 liters.

[attachment=0:2clks5n4]Day 3 - 2nd August 1AM - Filling new water in progress.JPG[/attachment:2clks5n4]

Yes, water is green. This is supposedly water from a good water source ( ground water ) in the mountains at 600 meters altitude.....a hill that is....

So my staff bombed the water to 10PPM chlorine.

Will continue............
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[SPP]

[attachment=1:2npmee2f]Day 3 - 2nd August 1AM -Water Clarity check.JPG[/attachment:2npmee2f]


[attachment=0:2npmee2f]Day 3 - 2nd August 1AM -Water dirt level check.JPG[/attachment:2npmee2f]

I grew fond of Slime Bag, it does really work and in this case, if I do not filter the water from the trucks, I may end up needing at least 12 extra hours in not more to achieve maximum water clarity. As you are all aware that our seniors have told you, 6-8 times total turnover is needed to get a 100% of the water in pool filtered and that is so true. So starting with water with less particles as possible is good. Algae wise, we battle it out later with super chlorination, because no filter can really handle that unless we flock them algae.

Will continue...................

 

[SPP]

Now the yuckie part ........
Algae starting to die..............

See, within 1 hour it shows how green my water can be, should be and will be

[attachment=2b9bvfrm]Day 3 - 2nd August 2AM -Super chlorination working killing algae.JPG[/attachmentb9bvfrm]


3 trucks in works. 3 trips to make up the 68,000ish liters of water

[attachment=1b9bvfrm]Day 3 - 2nd August 2-20AM -The 9th trucks cylce pumping water.JPG[/attachmentb9bvfrm]


Water totally filling the pool, did a quick backwash on the sand/zelbrite filter by 2:40AM August 2nd ( my time zone ).

[attachment=0b9bvfrm]Day 3 - 2nd August 2-40AM - Pool is full and super chlorination maintained at 10 PPM.JPG[/attachmentb9bvfrm]


I will report back in 12 hours to show progress.
With my 2nd pump ( on the trolley ), I am getting approx 4 hours per turnover. By 3PM later today or 12 hours or 3 turnover, I hope to see clarity improving a tiny bit. Chlorine level is maintained at 10PPM always and its a battle because the algae is hungry now........ :blah:

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[SPP]

Simple update, my cleaner ( new ) slime bag was torn due to over pressure from two trucks pumping into 1 Slime Bag heheheheh.
They use like a 5HP Honda for the pump............ha ha ha ha

EDITED, add photos

[attachment=2:1omq73d7]Day 3 - 2nd August 3-25AM -The fine dirt slime bag captured - yep this is the torn one.JPG[/attachment:1omq73d7]


EDIT EDIT, the "green" blob is the shadow of my head and the blue hose is my vacuum hose......
This is not the slime bag........ha ha ha, that is the vacuum hose end, the flat sucker thingy and the long handle. So sorry
[attachment=1:1omq73d7]Day 3 - 2nd August 3-25AM -Water clarity check at 4 meter or 12 feet deep end.JPG[/attachment:1omq73d7]


Here is the water viz in the middle, at 4 meter /12 feet deep end.
The reflection is from my stainless steel sunshade frames.
S-B = Slime Bag.
Got to use ISO 6,400 to take this photo unassisted with strobe

[attachment=0:1omq73d7]Day 3 - 2nd August 3-40AM -Water clarity check at 4 meter or 12 feet deep end viewing slime bag.JPG[/attachment:1omq73d7]

....... ...............

 

[SPP]

I checked with my water supplier and it seems they do a storage for the ground water. So this is why it is heavily laden with algae I supposed. Sunlight and body of water..........nice place for algae. If say water sucked direct from the well, I suppose should be better.

[attachment=2:110u4kme]Day 3 - 2nd August 6-30AM Algae war maxed out - 4+ hours after super chlorination.JPG[/attachment:110u4kme]
Above photo is the peak of the darkness of the water, 4 hours 30 minutes after super chlorination




[attachment=1:110u4kme]Day 3 - 2nd August 4PM Algae war completed - filters removing algae - 14 hours after super chlorination.JPG[/attachment:110u4kme]

From start of super chlorination the CL was stable at 10 PPM, and only loosing 1 PPM due to sunlight by 14th hour of super chlorination. Sand/Zelbrite filter was back-washed & cartridge filter was washed clean, flow meter reads good flow again by 9AM.


[attachment=0:110u4kme]Day 3 - 2nd August 4PM - Slime Bag working hard - 14 hours after super chlorination.JPG[/attachment:110u4kme]
I really like the Slime Bag, this kind of fine dead algae catching capability is why I keep using this Slime Bag on daily basis. Its a cheap super fine filter.
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[SPP]

Now its the algae removal time.................
Slow but sure. Total turnover of water circulation since peak darkest water been 12 hours or 3 cycles.

[attachment=1:yt8dgnta]Day 3 - 2nd August 6-30PM Algae war completed - filters removing algae - 16+ hours after super chlorination.JPG[/attachment:yt8dgnta]


[attachment=0:yt8dgnta]Day 3 - 2nd August 6-30PM - Water Clarity Check - 16+ hours after super chlorination.JPG[/attachment:yt8dgnta]


Will report again tomorrow morning.............

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[UnderWaterVanya]

Sorry you have to go through this. Nice to see it documented.

 

[SPP]

Sorry you have to go through this. Nice to see it documented.

Hi Vanya,

Got no choice, the after taste of the water is not as fresh as it used to be say a year or two ago.
Technically the pool make-up water per year is like 100% of the pool capacity, as I have a minor seepage. However of late, the pool have been very very busy. Initially I tot of wanting to use sort of water softener because at 136 PPM Total Hardness of CaC03 is considered moderately hard and Chloride of 757 PPM does effect after taste. Too bad the ion-exchange resin for removal of chloride or CaC03 is not cheap as a system. Water softener resin also will be damaged by chlorine.

The after taste of the water is my main concern which trigger this extra work.
Therefore I needed to test my pool water to Drinking Water standard to know what's really in it . My TDS meter did detect 2000+.

I been checking around to see what is the taste limit chloride imparts into the water to confirm my own taste-in-mouth. WHO wrote 200-300 PPM and hence limit is 250 PPM and that is the same as my lab test limit.
http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_hea ... loride.pdf
However, since I am a chemistry dummy, I dont know my chloride reading belongs to Sodium or Potassium or Calcium . All I know is, 757 PPM is high.

When I wanted to use salt water generator, I did a test with table salt, 1000 , 2000, 2,500, 3000 , 3500, 4000 PPM using TDS meter ( me have no salt tester ) for after taste.
I started to hate the taste at 2,500 PPM.

Re-generation of my zelbrite also uses salt, that adds Chloride to the water in some way.
Divers or swimmers sweating ( I hope they don't pee ) also adds chloride.

This trouble I am going through is a personal thing. People love my pool water compared to other pools, even the so called 5 star hotel ones.

Having stable water since 2009 thanks a million times to this forum , I can detect changes in the after taste easily. What I can not yet confirm is, does chloride of 757 PPM effects the eye comfort ??? I think it does in some way. I know when I do not get enough sleep and dive into the ocean, the eyes hurts like hellz. OK, sea water is 35,000 PPM salt......... , but fresh bath with open eyes does not hurt the eye, so I suppose in some way chloride does effect a tiny bit if at 757 PPM.


Today at 6AM, after 28 hours of super chlorination and approx 24 hours after peak brown water ( its darker than green ) and approx 600% total filtration turnover since brown water. 10 PM last night Slime Bag was washed clean and today it looks dark again already....
FC been stable at 10 PPM last nite.

[attachment=1:3izwl8h5]Day 4 - 6AM - 28 hours after super chlorination.JPG[/attachment:3izwl8h5]

[attachment=0:3izwl8h5]Day 4 - 6AM - Water Clarity Check - 28 hours after super chlorination.JPG[/attachment:3izwl8h5]


......... ........slow but sure
If only I can rent two more trolley pumps like mine............dang, this will be much faster prosess.

At this rate, I should be still within my prediction that Sunday mid noon or after a total of 15x water turnover, I should hit sparkling water. Then I will send the water to the Lab again to verify the chloride and Total Hardness.
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[SPP]

[attachment=1:zp5b5hd5]Day 4 - 12-20PM- Water Clarity Check - 34 hours after super chlorination.JPG[/attachment:zp5b5hd5]


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[attachment=0:zp5b5hd5]Day 4 - 12-20PM- Water Clarity Check v2 - 34 hours after super chlorination.JPG[/attachment:zp5b5hd5]

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[SPP]

Water clarity recovery in progress........

[attachment=1:2ocjc66a]Day 4 - 4-20PM- Water Clarity Check - 38 hours after super chlorination.JPG[/attachment:2ocjc66a]


[attachment=0:2ocjc66a]Day 4 - 4-20PM- Slime Bag Dirtier aka working - 38 hours after super chlorination.JPG[/attachment:2ocjc66a]

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[SPP]

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Total water turnover after peak algae death, approx 9.75 times or 39 hours
Today strong sun have consumed 2 PPM FC. Now is at 8PPM FC and I am not bombing more.


[attachment=0:1fb1ue7p]Day 4 - 9-45PM- Water Clarity Check - 43 hours after super chlorination.JPG[/attachment:1fb1ue7p]


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[chem geek]

Great work! I think the brown/green is mostly iron in the fill water even though it's from a mountain source. That would especially be true if the color got worse when you add chlorine to it. The slime bag worked out great to filter out all that particulate matter including iron oxide-hydroxide. When it's at peak (and oxidized by chlorine), it's red-brown, but when diluted it's more yellowish which can also look greenish. That's a real testament to The Slime Bag. I noted that in your original water before replacing it that there was virtually no iron (< 0.01) so maybe I'm wrong and this was just algae, but algae doesn't turn darker and redder when you shock it (it can consolidate to the bottom of the pool and look darker green that way, but not turn brown).

If you still have some of their fill water before you put it in the pool, you can have it tested so that we can be more sure of what happened.

 

[SPP]

Hello Master Yoda
Glad u dropped by. I did not keep any of the so called mountain water.

When water is clearest, I will send for lab test again. We know I started with <0.01 Fe and I replaced 50% water, if the Fe reading goes up, that means the mountain water has more iron than my pool water.

I personally never seen water this dark too after super chlorination... , you are right, usually green.

Slime Bag is good but one must move it so very slowly when wanting to clean the dirt. The dirt is so fine and as you seen.... its actually is outside the bag too .........trying to run off. If the bag were small and less surface area, the dirt may be kicked out by the pressure.

It will release the dirt when I am not careful about handling/lifting the bag. There is 1 thin layer of some kind of plastic membrane inside the slime bag. I think that is the so called 1 micron membrane ( claimed to be 1 micron ). The big cloth bag itself is probably just a "structural" bag to hold the membrane.

Even at best water clarity, Slime Bag will always get dirt while the cartridge stay clean as cartridge will pass out those sizes my eyes can't see.

I will Lab test the water by Tuesday or so and shall update. I hope to see Chloride down to 350ish PPM.

Later & thanks......

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[UnderWaterVanya]

That's an interestingly designed pool - how deep is the shallow end?

 

[SPP]

Hi Vanya,

The shallow end is 1.2 meters or 4 feet, its approx chest dry when standing for us shorter Asian at 170 cm.
Looks very shallow due to the refraction.

This is a dive training pool, hence odd design . Deep end is 13.3 feet.


Total water turnover after peak algae death, approx 12 times or 48 hours

[attachment=2:2mg5ugj4]Day 5 - 6-20 AM - 52 hours after super chlorination.JPG[/attachment:2mg5ugj4]

[attachment=1:2mg5ugj4]Day 5 - 6-20 AM - viz check - 52 hours after super chlorination.JPG[/attachment:2mg5ugj4]


Too much early morning sun glare.....
[attachment=0:2mg5ugj4]Day 5 - 6-20 AM - General View - 52 hours after super chlorination.JPG[/attachment:2mg5ugj4]

By tomorrow it should reach peak water clarity. well within prediction.

.

 

[SPP]

NOTES FOR NEW TPF "STUDENTS" :

CYA ..........I don't really like CYA, 25 is the most I will have and often well below that
Why no floc used during this algae battle ? No need, why waste time vacuuming ? Get a big extra pump with cartridge and use Slime Bag downstream. When I was still using sand alone and using flock, vacuuming gets the dirt back to water ( filtration too course ), unless you dump the water out to city drain.....such a waste.

In a typical true measured ( use flow meter to verify ) 8 hour per 1 turnover pool, it took me ages to get water clarity back. That spare pump on trolley is the booster. The other beauty of the pump on trolley is the flexible hoses, which means I can place suction and discharge where ever I like. This speeds up CL distribution and prevent "circulation dead space", which in my pool is at the drop off from shallow to deep end. Circulation dead space also means CL can't be distributed properly and filtration can't be done efficiently.

My pool design for its water pipes outlets and drain position, pipe size, outlets and drain quantity is all wrong because I do not know this forum before my pool was built.

So solution is that trolley pump

Will report back Sunday nite........me wanna go diving.....

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[SPP]

Ok guys........

Pool water change and etc etc done.
Water sent to Lab for testing.

This is the 2nd time Slime Bag got washed during the super chlorination period
I don't know what are those near red dirts

[attachment=2:1lh9a3qe]SB washed v1.JPG[/attachment:1lh9a3qe]

[attachment=1:1lh9a3qe]SB washed v2.JPG[/attachment:1lh9a3qe]

I will be building up CYA in these few days to 20 PPM.
The pool is loosing chlorine fast with Saturday and Sunday strong sunlight.
The water clarity is final and later after I take my evening bath ( so there is minimal bather load for the pool ), I will use my own sensor to test the water .......use my mouth and see how the water feel with lower Chloride.

Final Clarity. It can't go any better.
[attachment=0:1lh9a3qe]FINAL CLARITY.JPG[/attachment:1lh9a3qe]


I will post some underwater photo later yah.............

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[SPP]

Water feel good, taste near fresh.......not like Evian yet... but much better than when Chloride at 700ish PPM.

No chlorine smell at all, now at 3PPM.
My skin feel like after a shower, hair soft.....
Visibility is superb. Better than previous best as there is no human load yet. Never this pool has rest 3 days non stop after super chlorination this year. Usually I got to bring CL down immediately for use of the pool asap.

[attachment=2:2ysn1cn8]UW v1.JPG[/attachment:2ysn1cn8]

Flash is useless at this distance but I use it anyway.

Lucky I spot staining from the water level mark during super chlorination.
Looks like scuba brushing must do soon........no choice.
This sort of stainless steel brush/lump is better than the typical 3M green scotch-brite when cleaning stain
[attachment=1:2ysn1cn8]I use this to clean stain.JPG[/attachment:2ysn1cn8]


This is how the stain looks like
[attachment=0:2ysn1cn8]Staining from SC process v1.JPG[/attachment:2ysn1cn8]

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[SPP]

I did some investigative work and found algae on the ladder steps bottom
This is from video capture, tried flash photography but over exposed
Red circles are the algae

[attachment=2:1rvbssd6]algae under the ladder steps.JPG[/attachment:1rvbssd6]

[attachment=1:1rvbssd6]algae from the ladder steps.JPG[/attachment:1rvbssd6]

Please wear glove when using that stainless steel brush/lump. After 30 minutes in water a naked hand will be easily cut by that stainless steel brush when you worked it hard and pieces starts to fall off from the brush. Almost like wood splinters in a way....

Below is entertainment while I am having the camera with me.
[attachment=0:1rvbssd6]Fun photo test.JPG[/attachment:1rvbssd6]



This is the camera used. Not bad, 10 meter waterproof.
http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/05/08 ... act-camera

Lights to illuminate this pool are :
- 175 watts x 3 HID , they call it HID, I think its more sodium type bulb. One side of pool
- 250 watts , same type but bulb is different shape. One side of the pool

Will post pool Lab test report when i get them.

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