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Thread: Caretaker 99 - No Pressure @ The Dome

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    Tpham2001's Avatar
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    Caretaker 99 - No Pressure @ The Dome

    Hi All,
    New to the forum... Please lend me your ears.
    We bought this house on short sale from the bank; so the previous owner pretty much let the house go into disrepair. Since he/she is losing the house, there is no point in keeping it up, sad but this is the majority of what people are doing.

    This house comes with a pool with salt water system, since we moved in I have put the system back to operating condition by changing the salt cell. Before that I spoke to pool service company and their suggestion was to take the salt system out all together and go the tradition route. I was disappointed with this approach, the system works fine and all I needed was a new salt cell. I try to tackle one thing at a time.

    This pool also comes with caretaker 99 cleaning system (5 zones), when the system is running, there is no pressure at the pressure gage located on the black dome. The head(s) partially pop up and there is water coming out but not enough to rotate the heads (If I understand how the system works correctly). It also cycles thought out the zones, but not enough pressure to rotate the heads to sweep the debris to the two main drains.

    This is the situation, the two unions where there support to be two strainers before the dome won't budged. I read the manual online and it said to be hand tighten, but by the look of the unions, they are tighten with a pipe wrench which leave teeth marks. Again asked people at pool supplies and again, easy answer was to cut and replace the unions.

    How do I loosen the unions without cutting it and are there o-ring seals before the strainers? I want to see if the strainers are not plug or block with debris before I go one step further.

    Thank-you for lending your ears and I appreciate any advice.

    Twin
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Lets go swimming! Wait, is the water 88*F?
    -----------------
    10k gallons - Kidney Shape pool complete with 5-zone Caretaker 99 in-ground cleaner, Hayward Clear Plus Filter, CX900RE Filter, Hayward Pump, 2HP Marathon Motor, AutoPilot SWCG, Hayward Navigator Pro Cleaner.

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    rubber strap wrench

    there is a small removable strainer set in the top of the valve. i use one of these to unscrew the unions http://www.lowes.com/pd_253674-16878-50 ... 294937087_ there should be o rings on both unions. clean and reinstall strainer and check pressure gauge for reading somewhere between 15 and 20. gauge looks original, if zones are working, might need new one.

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    Re: Caretaker 99 - No Pressure @ The Dome

    #98,
    Thank-you for the response, I do have one and I used it to changed out the salt cell. The original salt cell's one of two unions was broken by riding lawn mower back into it. I built a stone wall around the pool equipment and cut my own lawn. I'm a small person and does not have the strength to loosen the union with the pipe wrench per attached link. I'm thinking I need leverage, meaning get a 24-36" steel pipe as an extended handle. What is the chance of breaking the pipe?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Lets go swimming! Wait, is the water 88*F?
    -----------------
    10k gallons - Kidney Shape pool complete with 5-zone Caretaker 99 in-ground cleaner, Hayward Clear Plus Filter, CX900RE Filter, Hayward Pump, 2HP Marathon Motor, AutoPilot SWCG, Hayward Navigator Pro Cleaner.

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    Re: Caretaker 99 - No Pressure @ The Dome

    Those unions shouldn't have to be that tight. Next time you take them apart, thoroughly clean the threads and the o-ring (check o-ring for flattening and distortion, replace if there is any question), then lightly lube o-ring and threads with pure silicone lubricant, and tighten by hand.
    In the industry, CSP (Certified Service Professional) by the NSPI and it's successor the APSP. My company services over 600 pools every year. I think the practices regularly espoused on this forum (especially the BBB method) are outstanding; however my comments will be often oriented towards the goal of getting it done, and getting it done right now!

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    Re: Caretaker 99 - No Pressure @ The Dome

    i'd be a little nervous about using a pipe extension. the unions probably haven't been apart for awhile (which may be the reason the strainer is dirty?) i don't see the valve in latest picture so i can't say which union to try first, probably the one on top of the strainer? you might want to try a careful application of WD40 on vertical union collar (gap between union collar and pipe socket) and let it sit overnight. use the spot tube on the nozzle to direct spray. couple of applications?

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    Re: Caretaker 99 - No Pressure @ The Dome

    Q,
    Thank-you, yes these unions are on very, very tight; I put all my weight (all 128 lbs) on it and no luck. If I ever get them apart, I'll follow you recommendation. As for the o-rings, do I need OEM o-rings or it is something I can pick up at a hardware store (Lowe, HD, Ace...)?
    Lets go swimming! Wait, is the water 88*F?
    -----------------
    10k gallons - Kidney Shape pool complete with 5-zone Caretaker 99 in-ground cleaner, Hayward Clear Plus Filter, CX900RE Filter, Hayward Pump, 2HP Marathon Motor, AutoPilot SWCG, Hayward Navigator Pro Cleaner.

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    Re: Caretaker 99 - No Pressure @ The Dome

    #98,
    Please see photo attached. I tried silicone lube before but not WD40. I'll follow you recommendation with WD application.
    [attachment=0:3qgcvdvf]SAM_0173.JPG[/attachment:3qgcvdvf] You mentioned try loosen the union on top of the doom first?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Lets go swimming! Wait, is the water 88*F?
    -----------------
    10k gallons - Kidney Shape pool complete with 5-zone Caretaker 99 in-ground cleaner, Hayward Clear Plus Filter, CX900RE Filter, Hayward Pump, 2HP Marathon Motor, AutoPilot SWCG, Hayward Navigator Pro Cleaner.

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    Re: Caretaker 99 - No Pressure @ The Dome

    When you tighten a union you compress the o-ring, eventually it will take more and more force to seal. Additionally, grit on the union threads can compound the problem.

    Once you get them apart, clean everything, if there's any doubt replace the o-rings. Lightly lubricating with pure silicone will make it much easier to seal with minimum force (hand tighten).

    You don't need to buy OEM o-rings, just make sure they're the right size.
    In the industry, CSP (Certified Service Professional) by the NSPI and it's successor the APSP. My company services over 600 pools every year. I think the practices regularly espoused on this forum (especially the BBB method) are outstanding; however my comments will be often oriented towards the goal of getting it done, and getting it done right now!

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    Re: Caretaker 99 - No Pressure @ The Dome

    98landry,
    I sprayed WD40 per your recommendation, once last night and once this morning around 0830. Just tried to loosen the unions and still not luck. I guess and I'm hoping I'm wrong, the installer must have not used o-ring and tighten the heck out it to prevent leakage. Note of interest, when the system is running, I can hear bubbling at the dome and sometime see bubbles at the heads. I'm planing to change out the pressure gage today.
    Lets go swimming! Wait, is the water 88*F?
    -----------------
    10k gallons - Kidney Shape pool complete with 5-zone Caretaker 99 in-ground cleaner, Hayward Clear Plus Filter, CX900RE Filter, Hayward Pump, 2HP Marathon Motor, AutoPilot SWCG, Hayward Navigator Pro Cleaner.

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    Re: Caretaker 99 - No Pressure @ The Dome

    like Q said, these fittings can be overtightened and become harder to open as time passes. saw latest photo. either fitting would be fine. at some point both will need to be loose. you might want to take a look at this link http://www.lascofittings.com/supportcen ... lastic.asp . i'm no engineer but reading their chart it looks like max tightening pressure is 956 lbs per sq inch. the pipe wrench strap will probably break before the fitting?

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    Re: Caretaker 99 - No Pressure @ The Dome

    Gentlemen,
    Success!!! I'm not sure which help loosen the fittings, but nonetheless I've taken the fittings apart and inspected the strainer, it has small amount of salt deposit. Also there is only one strainer located on top of the dome.

    After three applications of WD40 and let it sat over night and this morning. Since I can budged the fitting, I thought I go ahead and address the broken pressure gauge. Upon removing the PG, heard pressure release from the dome; I didn't make too much out of it. Went to Lowes for the PG, they only have side mount and indicate up to 200 PSI; I only need 60 PSI and it's easier to read. Went to Northern Tool, their gauge is pretty nice, liquid filled read out, but a little too big since the fitting is still there. Went to Ace, same thing, side mount and up to 100 PSI. At this point mind as well head home; went to return neighbor's steel pipe wrench but thought I give it one more try. Started with the fitting above the dome, with the wrench on the fitting, used a hammer and tapped on it a few times and it budged, I continued working till it came loose. Worked on the upstream fitting and it came off.

    98Landry, you're right I would have broken the plastic strap wrench to get the fittings loose. The strap kept slipping when applied full torque. I cleaned everything and now waiting to find some silicone lube, apply and reassemble. I'll be heading to HD to see if they have PG reading to up 60 PSI, bottom mount or even side mount since the fitting can be removed.

    Thank-you all for the advices, I really appreciated.

    T
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Lets go swimming! Wait, is the water 88*F?
    -----------------
    10k gallons - Kidney Shape pool complete with 5-zone Caretaker 99 in-ground cleaner, Hayward Clear Plus Filter, CX900RE Filter, Hayward Pump, 2HP Marathon Motor, AutoPilot SWCG, Hayward Navigator Pro Cleaner.

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    Re: Caretaker 99 - No Pressure @ The Dome

    You can get pure silicone lube from any auto parts supplier. Buy a cheap guage from the local pool store. Replace the o-rings (they look flat to me). Clean the threads, and lightly lubricate o-ring and threads with silicone. You should be able to hand tighten to re-seal.
    In the industry, CSP (Certified Service Professional) by the NSPI and it's successor the APSP. My company services over 600 pools every year. I think the practices regularly espoused on this forum (especially the BBB method) are outstanding; however my comments will be often oriented towards the goal of getting it done, and getting it done right now!

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    Re: Caretaker 99 - No Pressure @ The Dome

    Hi All,
    I addressed the pressure gauge issue at the dome by replacing the gauge, cleaned and lubed the fittings as recommended.
    I also cleaned the filter as well...

    The pressure reading at the is reading at 8 psi; given all things equal, meaning, 50/50 return to the the pool side nozzles and the Caretaker. In order to increase the pressure at the dome to 18 psi (dropped to 10 psi when changing from zone to zone); I went 75/25 at the jan Valve. By doing so I achieved 18 psi required by the Caretaker to function per manufacturer recommendation; but, and there is alway a BUT... There is noise increase at the Jan Valve, by going 75/25 will this damage the jan in the long run?

    I do not know what filter is in used, I would venture to guess it would be the minimal recommended (bank owned). I'll make note of the filter in use next cleaning.

    Attached are some photos maybe these will help resolve pressure at the dome.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Lets go swimming! Wait, is the water 88*F?
    -----------------
    10k gallons - Kidney Shape pool complete with 5-zone Caretaker 99 in-ground cleaner, Hayward Clear Plus Filter, CX900RE Filter, Hayward Pump, 2HP Marathon Motor, AutoPilot SWCG, Hayward Navigator Pro Cleaner.

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    Re: Caretaker 99 - No Pressure @ The Dome

    Attached is pump, motor and pressure reading at the filter. given the pump,motor and filter pressure shown, is there anything I can do to achieve 18 psi at the dome without going 75/25 at the valve?

    Again, thank-you.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Lets go swimming! Wait, is the water 88*F?
    -----------------
    10k gallons - Kidney Shape pool complete with 5-zone Caretaker 99 in-ground cleaner, Hayward Clear Plus Filter, CX900RE Filter, Hayward Pump, 2HP Marathon Motor, AutoPilot SWCG, Hayward Navigator Pro Cleaner.

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    Re: Caretaker 99 - No Pressure @ The Dome

    Update...
    After running 75/25 for the past 30 minutes, pressure @ dome is now reading 10-12 and the boot , there is a leak on the upstream union at the connection between straight pipe and bottom half union. This is a direct result of forcing the fittings apart . Another trip the the hardware store; I think the plumbing dept. knows me at first name basic now.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Lets go swimming! Wait, is the water 88*F?
    -----------------
    10k gallons - Kidney Shape pool complete with 5-zone Caretaker 99 in-ground cleaner, Hayward Clear Plus Filter, CX900RE Filter, Hayward Pump, 2HP Marathon Motor, AutoPilot SWCG, Hayward Navigator Pro Cleaner.

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    Re: Caretaker 99 - No Pressure @ The Dome

    Jandy valves can be put in any position. You will not damage them by leaving it a 75/25 ... and yes some positions are certainly louder than others. Using the 3-way is the only way to adjust the pressure at the dome.

    I had this system on my last pool and put all the water to it, not sure what the pressure was though. You may be fine just turning it all to the Caretaker (some pools do not actually even have the wall returns or whatever other path you have).
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Caretaker 99 - No Pressure @ The Dome

    How to address the leakage?
    Coupling/new straight pipe/new union/coupling?
    Replace the whole thing by cutting 2" below the up stream union since there are some PVC glue dripping from previous installation.
    What a headache; sometime I wish I just let the sleeping dog along... But no, I have to go and messed with it.
    Spend more money on pipe cutter, coupling, (2 set) unions, straight pipe, and (2) 90 elbows (LR if I can find it).
    Lets go swimming! Wait, is the water 88*F?
    -----------------
    10k gallons - Kidney Shape pool complete with 5-zone Caretaker 99 in-ground cleaner, Hayward Clear Plus Filter, CX900RE Filter, Hayward Pump, 2HP Marathon Motor, AutoPilot SWCG, Hayward Navigator Pro Cleaner.

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    Re: Caretaker 99 - No Pressure @ The Dome

    Just cut out the leaking union and put another one in. You will also need a coupler and a little more pipe.

    If nothing else is leaking just leave it.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: Caretaker 99 - No Pressure @ The Dome

    Thanks JB, I will do just that! If its not broken; don't fix... The afternoon storm is rolling in, the kids are in the pool. I'll pull them out soon...
    Lets go swimming! Wait, is the water 88*F?
    -----------------
    10k gallons - Kidney Shape pool complete with 5-zone Caretaker 99 in-ground cleaner, Hayward Clear Plus Filter, CX900RE Filter, Hayward Pump, 2HP Marathon Motor, AutoPilot SWCG, Hayward Navigator Pro Cleaner.

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    Re: Caretaker 99 - No Pressure @ The Dome

    is leak from union thread or socket below?

    filter size should be fine for a 2 hp pump.

    hayward filters are rated for 50 lbs max. you probably don't want to have filter over 40. older systems will develop leaks.

    sometime in the future you may want to consider replacing three way valve with two separate two way valves to allow you individually control pressures to Caretaker and returns.

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