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Thread: Starting on borates. Help confirm calculations.

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    GreatCanadian's Avatar
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    Starting on borates. Help confirm calculations.

    Plan to try the borates this weekend, and would like to confirm my calculations before starting.

    Here are my current levels:

    CYA 50
    TA 70
    FC 5
    CC 0
    CH 30
    ph 7.2

    I plan to raise borates to 30 this evening and up to 50 tomorrow. For my 8,000 gallon pool I have calculated (using Pool Calculator) that I need to add:

    283 oz. of 20 Mule Team Borax
    135 oz. of 31.45% Muriatic acid

    Can someone confirm (or refute) these calculations based on my current TA reading of 70 and my borderline pH of 7.2 which does not want to move. Thanks all.

    Also, does 20 degrees baume guarantee that the muriatic acid is 31.45%? (forget that question, just figured it out.)
    GC
    13'x22'x52" 8,000 gallon ProSeries Pool with Borates
    Intex 110 pound Sand Filter with Zeobrite, 2650 gph pump, 0.95 hp
    Bestway SWG
    AquaPro ECO500 50,000 BTU heat pump
    GLI Whirlwind Solar Cover Reel, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Starting on borates. Help confirm calculations.

    The get to 30 ppm, what I am getting on the Pool Calc confirms what you have gotten.

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    GreatCanadian's Avatar
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    Re: Starting on borates. Help confirm calculations.

    Great, thanks.
    That equates to a 4 litre jug of Muriatic acid. Can I hold the jug of acid under the surface and just let it flow slowly out, or would that be the same as adding water to acid when the pool water enters the bottle (a no-no).
    13'x22'x52" 8,000 gallon ProSeries Pool with Borates
    Intex 110 pound Sand Filter with Zeobrite, 2650 gph pump, 0.95 hp
    Bestway SWG
    AquaPro ECO500 50,000 BTU heat pump
    GLI Whirlwind Solar Cover Reel, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Starting on borates. Help confirm calculations.

    I hold the jug above the surface and pour slowly.
    -- Guy --
    10K gallons in 21' Round 52 inch wall Aqualeader AG, Hayward Power Flow LX 1.5 HP pump motor, Hayward Perflex EC50AC DE filter w/Cellulose, Wide mouth skimmer, 2013 new Diver Dan (craigslist) to replace the faded old Hayward AquaBug. TF-100

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    GreatCanadian's Avatar
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    Re: Starting on borates. Help confirm calculations.

    It's windy as heck here for the last number of days. I am concerned about fumes blowing into my face.
    13'x22'x52" 8,000 gallon ProSeries Pool with Borates
    Intex 110 pound Sand Filter with Zeobrite, 2650 gph pump, 0.95 hp
    Bestway SWG
    AquaPro ECO500 50,000 BTU heat pump
    GLI Whirlwind Solar Cover Reel, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Starting on borates. Help confirm calculations.

    Legitimate concern. Please wear goggles. I hate that stuff. I now also wear the 'fume' type of respirator mask as well because I always end up upwind it seems no matter how I move...(I had a respirator left over from varnishing my hardwood floors...) Oh, and rubber gloves!
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
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    GreatCanadian's Avatar
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    Re: Starting on borates. Help confirm calculations.

    Got the rubber gloves, got the goggles. I'll hold my breath between pours!!
    13'x22'x52" 8,000 gallon ProSeries Pool with Borates
    Intex 110 pound Sand Filter with Zeobrite, 2650 gph pump, 0.95 hp
    Bestway SWG
    AquaPro ECO500 50,000 BTU heat pump
    GLI Whirlwind Solar Cover Reel, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Starting on borates. Help confirm calculations.

    Why two days? Divide the 50 ppm in two doses and be done with it. It took me about 20 minutes for the whole process. The hardest part is the calculations, procurement of ingredients and getting up the nerve to pour that first half of the acid in the pool.

    After I poured that first dose of acid I ran full speed around my filter to get to the borax. Tripped over a hose and went arse over tin cup. I let everything mix for about 5 minutes and tested the PH at 3 different spots. Every thing was fine. I guess I should have walked around the filter.
    Bill
    18'X4' 7600 Gal AG
    3/4 HP Pentair Pump
    Hayward S166T 100 lb sand filter

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    Re: Starting on borates. Help confirm calculations.

    I only have enough borax to bring me to 40 ppm. I bought all the borax they had on the shelf today. And 30 ppm allows me to use one full jug of acid. So I figured I'd dose the 30 this evening when I get home from work, and look for more borax tomorrow. I have weird logic.
    13'x22'x52" 8,000 gallon ProSeries Pool with Borates
    Intex 110 pound Sand Filter with Zeobrite, 2650 gph pump, 0.95 hp
    Bestway SWG
    AquaPro ECO500 50,000 BTU heat pump
    GLI Whirlwind Solar Cover Reel, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Starting on borates. Help confirm calculations.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatCanadian
    I only have enough borax to bring me to 40 ppm. I bought all the borax they had on the shelf today. And 30 ppm allows me to use one full jug of acid. So I figured I'd dose the 30 this evening when I get home from work, and look for more borax tomorrow. I have weird logic.
    That makes perfect sense. I don't like measuring out acid into another container unless I have to. Might as well shoot for 60 ppm and keep the logic going. You're pretty smart for a Canagian. :P
    Bill
    18'X4' 7600 Gal AG
    3/4 HP Pentair Pump
    Hayward S166T 100 lb sand filter

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    Re: Starting on borates. Help confirm calculations.

    Lol. Watch it!! It's bad enough that you Americans took our Stanley Cup !! And have been making a habit of it lately!!
    Oooh. Just noticed you're from Philly. Flyers fan? If so, you're hurtin' too!

    That being said, your idea of dosing to 60 is a pretty good idea. You're pretty smart for an American!!
    13'x22'x52" 8,000 gallon ProSeries Pool with Borates
    Intex 110 pound Sand Filter with Zeobrite, 2650 gph pump, 0.95 hp
    Bestway SWG
    AquaPro ECO500 50,000 BTU heat pump
    GLI Whirlwind Solar Cover Reel, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Starting on borates. Help confirm calculations.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatCanadian
    Lol. Watch it!! It's bad enough that you Americans took our Stanley Cup !! And have been making a habit of it lately!!
    Oooh. Just noticed you're from Philly. Flyers fan? If so, you're hurtin' too!
    Been hurtin since 1975. Thanks for reminding me.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatCanadian
    That being said, your idea of dosing to 60 is a pretty good idea. You're pretty smart for an American!!
    Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every now and then.
    Bill
    18'X4' 7600 Gal AG
    3/4 HP Pentair Pump
    Hayward S166T 100 lb sand filter

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    Re: Starting on borates. Help confirm calculations.

    I'm a Canadiens fan. Don't tell anyone.
    13'x22'x52" 8,000 gallon ProSeries Pool with Borates
    Intex 110 pound Sand Filter with Zeobrite, 2650 gph pump, 0.95 hp
    Bestway SWG
    AquaPro ECO500 50,000 BTU heat pump
    GLI Whirlwind Solar Cover Reel, TF-100 Test Kit

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    GreatCanadian's Avatar
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    Re: Starting on borates. Help confirm calculations.

    I added 4 boxes of Borax and a 4 liter jug Muriatic acid. Found a 3/4 liter jug Muriatic acid from last year. Added that and another box of borax. Plus the bit of borax I added a few days ago to increase pH. Borates should be about 40 ppm now. Added this stuff 3 hours ago and just tested for pH. It's at 7.5. So far so good!!
    13'x22'x52" 8,000 gallon ProSeries Pool with Borates
    Intex 110 pound Sand Filter with Zeobrite, 2650 gph pump, 0.95 hp
    Bestway SWG
    AquaPro ECO500 50,000 BTU heat pump
    GLI Whirlwind Solar Cover Reel, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Starting on borates. Help confirm calculations.

    you wont be sorry
    i love my borax pool really nice feeling water
    18x52 intex ultra frame pool 6981 gallons, 1 HP LL pump with 19 in sand filter,BBB method,borax 50ppm
    leslies DPD test kit + fas-dpd chlorine test kit + borates test strips
    thru wall skimmer,hard plumbed with 2 returns 1 1/2 sch 40 pvc
    1 large fountain 1 inch sch 40 pvc,shut off ball valves on all

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    GreatCanadian's Avatar
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    Re: Starting on borates. Help confirm calculations.

    Well, all I managed to do since adding the borates is test for pH. Which is at 7.5. Other than that the pool has remained covered as we didn't have a chance to get swimming!! Hopefully within the next couple of days I'll get to try it out. Or at least have a look at it in the sunshine to see if it does indeed sparkle a bit more.
    13'x22'x52" 8,000 gallon ProSeries Pool with Borates
    Intex 110 pound Sand Filter with Zeobrite, 2650 gph pump, 0.95 hp
    Bestway SWG
    AquaPro ECO500 50,000 BTU heat pump
    GLI Whirlwind Solar Cover Reel, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Starting on borates. Help confirm calculations.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatCanadian
    Well, all I managed to do since adding the borates is test for pH. Which is at 7.5. Other than that the pool has remained covered as we didn't have a chance to get swimming!! Hopefully within the next couple of days I'll get to try it out. Or at least have a look at it in the sunshine to see if it does indeed sparkle a bit more.
    Pics or it didn't happen--just sayin. Hard to trust a Hab fan so before and afters would be better. :P
    Bill
    18'X4' 7600 Gal AG
    3/4 HP Pentair Pump
    Hayward S166T 100 lb sand filter

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    GreatCanadian's Avatar
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    Re: Starting on borates. Help confirm calculations.

    Lol!! Good one. I will take a pic next time swimming. Already have "before" pics so I'll link to them after I get the "after" pics.

    I take it you're a big Sidney Crosby fan!! Like every other Philly fan!!
    13'x22'x52" 8,000 gallon ProSeries Pool with Borates
    Intex 110 pound Sand Filter with Zeobrite, 2650 gph pump, 0.95 hp
    Bestway SWG
    AquaPro ECO500 50,000 BTU heat pump
    GLI Whirlwind Solar Cover Reel, TF-100 Test Kit

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    Re: Starting on borates. Help confirm calculations.

    Hate the guy but have to give him his due. Early in his career he couldn't win a faceoff even if his life depended on it. Now he's one of the best faceoff men in the league.

    Same goes for the Habs. Can't stand em but you have to respect their storied history even if they did have an unfair advantage in the draft during their early years. Same goes for the fans. Passionate is an understatement when describing them. Buddies of mine went up there for a playoff game against the Flyers. While they were out on the town after the game they were approached by some "ladies of the evening." Halfway into their pitch, one of the ladies noticed a Flyers jersey in the group. She turned to the others, spit out some French to her friends and all of them turned on their heels and left and all of them giving the finger to my boys. Gotta love that commitment to a team.
    Bill
    18'X4' 7600 Gal AG
    3/4 HP Pentair Pump
    Hayward S166T 100 lb sand filter

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    GreatCanadian's Avatar
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    Re: Starting on borates. Help confirm calculations.

    Quote Originally Posted by yeggim
    Pics or it didn't happen--just sayin. Hard to trust a Hab fan so before and afters would be better. :P
    Here ya go. I honestly didn't recognize how big a difference there was til I looked at these pictures. The second picture is pretty poor quality (taken with cell phone) but it does show the difference. Pretty certain the borates could not account entirely for the drastic difference, but the shimmer is a result of the borates for sure:

    Before borates:


    After borates:
    13'x22'x52" 8,000 gallon ProSeries Pool with Borates
    Intex 110 pound Sand Filter with Zeobrite, 2650 gph pump, 0.95 hp
    Bestway SWG
    AquaPro ECO500 50,000 BTU heat pump
    GLI Whirlwind Solar Cover Reel, TF-100 Test Kit

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