Got a bleach question...........

[juniper55]

Another newbie, joined over the weekend and this is my third post already. Got a bleach question.... how much is too much and shouldn't I be seeing results by now?

3200 gallon pool with SWG and copper ionization and pool chemistry a mess for weeks since I was trusting those little test strips and then the pool store.

I just got my Taylor 2005 kit today (and ordered FAS-DPD stuff as well as SW and Cu test kits)

Since Friday I added 1 lb shock, 2 g chlorine, 3 lb alkalinity increase (probably too much), changed filters three times all per (1) pool store, then (2) Pool Calculator because I suspected what I thought was FC was really CC and a whole lot of it.

Today I tried Taylor DPD and it immediately bleached out, so then I did the diluted samples but even down to the most minimal I still got pink "off the chart"

So I figure my CC is 25 or more with FC of zero.
I mistrust the rest of my results because of high chlorine and copper but I get 7.7 pH, 200 TA, 200 CH, and 60 CYA. Water temp 77.

So with a 60 CYA and wanting to raise FC to 30 the Pool Calculator said dump two more jugs of chlorine bleach in the pool. Which I just did.

But y'all are adding by the cup. So I am confused - did I add too much? Shouldn't I be seeing some FC by now or could this take several more days?

Also - when should I add stabilizer to raise the CYA? Or should I mistrust ALL of the readings until I get the chlorine under control?

I'm about ready to drain and start over....should I???

Thanks for your advice!

 

[linen]

3200 gallon pool with SWG and copper ionization and pool chemistry a mess for weeks since I was trusting those little test strips and then the pool store.

First, unplug the copper bars...you do not need or want more copper in your pool.

I just got my Taylor 2005 kit today (and ordered FAS-DPD stuff as well as SW and Cu test kits)

I'm about ready to drain and start over....should I???

How does your water look?

Nothing I am seeing in your test results suggest big problems. If you copper level is high however, then a drain and refill probably will make sense....but let's wait till you get your kit to see where that is.

Today I tried Taylor DPD and it immediately bleached out, so then I did the diluted samples but even down to the most minimal I still got pink "off the chart"

The DPD will bleach out at high FC levels, so it is likely your FC is very high and hopefully your CC is not so high. When is your FAS-DPD test supposed to be delivered?

 

[juniper55]

In the next few days, they were calling in an order today.

I am very confused over the DPD test. I did the test per the box but it immediately bleached out. So I did the "high chlorine check" (10 drops each of DPD #1 and 2 and a little of water - turned pink so I assumed high CC), then did the half sample then the fourth sample with distilled water. Both only with DPD #1 and #2 and my results were still so pink it exceeded the scale. The last time around (1.8 ml pool water/rest distilled) was when I added DPD #3 and there was no color change at all to get total chlorine.

That is why I thought my FC must be zero.

Unless I should interpret this as meaning that my CC was zero instead and that my FC really is at shock level!! (of course, I just boosted it higher...)

How long must I reasonably wait to check chlorine levels again? Overnight?

The water is clear but slightly greenish tint. No visible slime or growth anywhere in the pool, just in the filter, and the bluish green tint reminds me of Mircle Gro plant food or copper sulfate crystals. That's why I'm thinking high copper. Plus I had a hard time doing the CH test.

Now when y'all say "unplug the copper" is that going to affect the rest of the SWG at all? Will I get some kind of warning alarm ringing that it is disconnected?

Our pool is in the shade with a canopy over so not a lot of sunlight. Pump runs 24 hours, SWG runs 6 hours.

Thanks!

 

[Bama Rambler]

I think you're reading the test wrong. I think you have very high FC and zero CC.

I wouldn't add any more FC to the pool until you know what your levels are. Turn the swg off for a while until your FC comes back down.

When you unplug the copper the unit doesn't even know it. It doesn't have a way to know if it's connected or not.

 

[juniper55]

I checked again this morning around 7 am - the FC was still too pink/off the chart even with diluting down to 1.5 ml plus distilled.

I disconnected the copper ionizer at the same time, and after seeing the last reply, went down and turned off the SWG. Only the pump is running. The pool gets a little sun early in the morning and late afternoon but is shaded the rest of the day.

I am going to add some more fresh water this afternoon to make up loss from evaporation, but NOTHING ELSE until I get a better read on the chlorine.

I will try the DPD test again this afternoon around 4 pm.

 

[Stuamurr]

Bleached out DPD tablets at high chlorine levels often result in pool owners thinking they have no FC, thus dumping in more Hypoclorite to their pools, it's an amazingly common mistake.

I'm with Dave J, I think you have a very high FC also, wait for your FAS-DPD kit to arrive before taking any further action such as lowering your CYA and TA levels which are both high, but you often get inaccurate results when superchlorinating.

Regards
Stuart

 

[frogabog]

Have you got an image of the pool water?

When you describe the green tint, and it's similarity to miracle grow green/blue it sounds like the green might possibly be due to copper. Algae is usually more of a dirty green color, especially when stirred up. Since you've been using the SWG with the copper plugged in, there's a chance the copper is a little high. What happens to the green tint when you pour in the bleach? Anything?

 

[juniper55]

Boy oh boy am I getting mad. Continuing the saga:

My initial tests for salt using HTH strips said between 3100 - 3300. I only put 80 lbs of yellow bag Diamond pellets. Since I opened the pool on 6/8 I have only added 2 lb orange AquaChem shock and 4 gal 6% bleach.

I got my Taylor 2005 and did DPD test several times. Only using the MINIMUM amount of pool water (1.5 ml, the rest distilled). Every time I have gotten the same result: very dark pink above 5 on scale X 5 = FC of at least 25 or higher

7/26 at 5 pm, 7/27 at 7 am, 7/27 at noon, 7/27 at 5 pm and today 7/28 at 9 am

I unplugged the ionizer and turned off the SWG yesterday morning.

I went back to the pool store and picked up the DPD power and R-0871 I ordered, as well as the K-1766 salt kit. (copper kit still on order). I did the FAS-DPD test TWICE. The first time, I added 50 drops of R-0871 at least and solution was still dark pink. So I rinsed with distilled water and started over.

On the second try I added 170 drops and the solution was still pink, though a much lighter color. That would mean an FC of (gasp) 85! What the &%#$???

SO then I tested for salt. Color change between 18-19 drops so my salt is 3600-3800. I figure I added 150 ppm salt from all the bleach and shock. Pool Calculator does not say anything else adds salt (stabilizer, phPlus, pH minus, baking soda). The level is not high enough to trigger an alarm on my SWG.

What the heck is going on and what do I do?? Either my SWG is exceedingly efficient or I never lose any free chlorine! But how can that be??? Picture of pool attached.

 

[juniper55]

Sunday morning:

Yesterday we drained about 250 gallons and added in about 350 gal fresh. We also re-measured the pool, probably closer to 2800 gallons. I scrubbed/soaked the copper and salt cell in vinegar, checked the filter (clean), brushed down the pool and cleaned everything. We actually got a little rain last night, first in weeks!

This morning at 8 am these are my results:
Salt 3000
pH 7.5 but I'm suspicious because of high chlorine
FC 65 and I had to add 130 drops using FAS-DPD, better than yesterday
CC still likely zero, no color change
TA 210 and I added extra R-007 first to try to neutralize chlorine
CH 100 but I did add extra R-0012 first in case copper was too high
CYA 60

SWG is still turned off but pump still running 24 hours.

I'm hesitant to add anything until my FC drops some more because I don't want a pH yo-yo again! But this is what PC suggested:

9 oz muriatic acid to bring pH down to 7.2
21 oz calcium chloride to bring CH up to 150 (vinyl pool)
5 oz stabilizer to bring CYA up to 75
5 lb salt to bring it up to 3200

I want the TA to go down to 65. Any way to reduce it without significantly affecting pH, and is there any way to reduce FC a little faster?

Many thanks for any advice!

 

[Smykowski]

Adding CYA will slow the FC breakdown even more, so don't do that. Fastest way I can think of to lower the FC level would be to replace more water. You'll dump FC overboard, and you'll also lower CYA in the process, which will allow the sun to burn the remainder faster. Just know you'll have to put more CYA in later for the SWG to do its thing.

As for the TA, I'd worry about that last. With the sky high FC levels, you can't be sure what your pH is yet, so you can't really do anything about it anyways. Your high TA (along with the SWG once you turn it back on) will drive your pH up. Every acid addition will also bring the TA down; so, in effect, the TA will come down on it's own as long as you keep the pool balanced.

 

[juniper55]

FC readings lately, and can't seem to read any CC at all (using FAS-DPD and running out of titration reagent!)

7/29 at 3 pm FC was 58
7/30 at 8 am FC was 51
7/31 at 9 am FC was 46

Good grief! Why is it taking so long to fall? What should I do?

The only chlorine I added all summer was two 1-lb bags of shock and four regular jugs of chlorine since June 8, and the HTH Salt test strips had said my salt was okay. Where is all the free chlorine coming from??

 

[Stuamurr]

Sodium Thiosulphate or Chlorine Reducer can reduce your chlorine levels, using 100g per 10,000 imp G for a FC reduction of 1ppm, to reduce your Chlorine level to under under 20ppm, you would need around 650g or 23 ounces in old money, which should only cost around $10 from the pool store, be warned though too much Sodium Thiosulphate will consume all the chlorine until it is 'spent' up, so it is better to use less than stated then re-test and go from there.

Another option is to dilute your water, as stated above by Symkowski, or alternatively just wait for it to fall, looks like you are loosing around 5ppm daily, so another 5-6 days you will be in relatively safe levels for swimming, or of course a combination of dilution and natural loss.

Regards
Stuart

 

[linen]

The only chlorine I added all summer was two 1-lb bags of shock and four regular jugs of chlorine since June 8, and the HTH Salt test strips had said my salt was okay. Where is all the free chlorine coming from??

You also were running a swg, that was constantly adding chlorine.

Do you have a pool cover on? Leave it off if you do, that will speed up the FC drop.

 

[juniper55]

I'll try more water and look for the sodium thiosulfate. The pool does not get a lot of sun, and there is a canopy and mosquito netting to keep out the bugs and such. I guess they also keep the chlorine in!

I'll post in a few days with the results.

I would like to know at what point should I turn the SWG back on? When the FC goes down as low as 4? Or when I start seeing CC?

 

[RobbieH]

The SWG is to maintain your proper FC level. You don't want CCs.

 

[linen]

I would like to know at what point should I turn the SWG back on? When the FC goes down as low as 4? Or when I start seeing CC?

For your cya of 60, pool calculator give me a swg normal FC minimum of 3 ppm. Waiting until it is down to 4 (or 5) makes sense (but don't drop below 3 ppm) and then run a day with the swg on for a few hours and see where your FC is at the end of the day. I would guess a good starting point for your pool will be low since it sounds like it gets lots of shade...maybe start at 2 hours swg on time, measure after the two hours are up and see how much bump up you get.

 

[MikeInNH]

I would like to know at what point should I turn the SWG back on? When the FC goes down as low as 4? Or when I start seeing CC?

You don't want to wait until you have CC's. It can stay off until you are in the single digits but then you'll need to make the level match the chart for your CYA level. I personally like to see it match before the SWG runs for the day. BTW, I only run my Intex SWG 4 hours a day to maintain the FC in my 18'x33'x52" pool. You say you run the SWG 6 hours on your pool that is much smaller. Mine is the older model that has a slightly bigger cell but still, I think it's running too much for your setup. You will need to find the sweet spot for run time. You could try aerating the pool, maybe that will bring the FC down quicker on your sized pool? Good luck!

 

[Stuamurr]

Just to re-iterate the point, having zero CC is GOOD, Combined Chlorine is the by-product of ammonia and other waste products, from the free chlorine residual. Aiming for a combined chlorine reading of 0.0ppm is highly desirable, and a situation many pool operators wish they had.