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Thread: BBBorates

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    BBBorates

    I was seriously considering adding borates until the calculator advised I should add 1943 ounces of borax and 926 ounces of muriatic acid. WOW! Is this calculator sponsored by walmart? I'm just not sure about handling so much muriatic acid. Even if I add it over the course of the rest of the summer, that is over 7 bottles. Seems very intimidating.

    ~theresa
    Theresa and/or Gary

    Complete DIY: 20x40' rectangle. Resin walls, vinyl lined. 33000 gallons. Full width steps. 8' deep. Diving board, slide. Hayward pro series super pump, sand filter. Raypack 336K BTU heater. Main drain, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, 2 amerilite lights with quick change lens Aquamatic auto cover and a partridge in a pear tree.
    Breaking our backs in the hopes that one of our six kids will care for us when we are old ;)

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    Vette's Avatar
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    Re: BBBorates

    33,000 gallons is a lot of water.
    11,700 gallon 21' round 54" deep all-resin AGP - June 2012
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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: BBBorates

    Quote Originally Posted by 8corneflakes
    I was seriously considering adding borates until the calculator advised I should add 1943 ounces of borax and 926 ounces of muriatic acid. WOW! Is this calculator sponsored by walmart? I'm just not sure about handling so much muriatic acid. Even if I add it over the course of the rest of the summer, that is over 7 bottles. Seems very intimidating.

    ~theresa
    Remember you can also add it in the form of Boric Acid and Borax. Boric acid is nearly pH neutral but not quite. From what I have read 93% Boric acid and 7% Borax is pH neutral but for most purposes 100% Boric acid is OK and results in a small (say 0.3) drop in pH but you'll have to confirm that.
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
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    Swampwoman's Avatar
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    Re: BBBorates

    Teresa/or Gary, if you order THIS kind, which is boric acid, you do not have to add the MA -- http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=Boric+acid
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
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    Re: BBBorates

    Quote Originally Posted by Vette
    33,000 gallons is a lot of water.
    No it isn't. (See sig line)

    This got me to 30ppm.



    I went the rest of the way with granulated boric acid from Duda Diesel. Slightly more expensive, but WAY easier to dose with.

    http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=boric
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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    Re: BBBorates

    you both get today's award for fastest response! I do not have a borate test. If I've never added any, can I assume that I probably have none? I am having quite a difficult time keeping my TA and pH in check. TA is always above 150 and pH consistently raises quickly to 8. Based on that, I am a bit gun shy about making these numbers worse.
    Theresa and/or Gary

    Complete DIY: 20x40' rectangle. Resin walls, vinyl lined. 33000 gallons. Full width steps. 8' deep. Diving board, slide. Hayward pro series super pump, sand filter. Raypack 336K BTU heater. Main drain, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, 2 amerilite lights with quick change lens Aquamatic auto cover and a partridge in a pear tree.
    Breaking our backs in the hopes that one of our six kids will care for us when we are old ;)

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    Re: BBBorates

    that was a funny pic. looked like a elementary science project gone wrong!
    Theresa and/or Gary

    Complete DIY: 20x40' rectangle. Resin walls, vinyl lined. 33000 gallons. Full width steps. 8' deep. Diving board, slide. Hayward pro series super pump, sand filter. Raypack 336K BTU heater. Main drain, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, 2 amerilite lights with quick change lens Aquamatic auto cover and a partridge in a pear tree.
    Breaking our backs in the hopes that one of our six kids will care for us when we are old ;)

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    Re: BBBorates

    RobbieH,
    Did you do this all in one shot?
    Theresa and/or Gary

    Complete DIY: 20x40' rectangle. Resin walls, vinyl lined. 33000 gallons. Full width steps. 8' deep. Diving board, slide. Hayward pro series super pump, sand filter. Raypack 336K BTU heater. Main drain, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, 2 amerilite lights with quick change lens Aquamatic auto cover and a partridge in a pear tree.
    Breaking our backs in the hopes that one of our six kids will care for us when we are old ;)

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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: BBBorates

    Have you read the 19 page thread on borates? One thing I recall from that thread is that you are advised to get the TA in line with recommended levels BEFORE adding borates.
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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    Re: BBBorates

    Quote Originally Posted by 8corneflakes
    RobbieH,
    Did you do this all in one shot?
    I tried but finding enough 20 Mule Team in my local stores to treat 44,000 gallons was a futile effort. Ordering from Duda was the way to go. It does not hurt if you overshoot your target, anything between 50 and 80 is effective, just try to hit 50.

    I love the effects. Water is softer, scaling issues have gone to zero, pH is pretty stable, even with my SWG.

    Absolutely have TA in check first, very hard to adjust after adding borates.
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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    Re: BBBorates

    PARTY POOPERS! Okay, back to square one. I do hate the TA battle though.
    Theresa and/or Gary

    Complete DIY: 20x40' rectangle. Resin walls, vinyl lined. 33000 gallons. Full width steps. 8' deep. Diving board, slide. Hayward pro series super pump, sand filter. Raypack 336K BTU heater. Main drain, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, 2 amerilite lights with quick change lens Aquamatic auto cover and a partridge in a pear tree.
    Breaking our backs in the hopes that one of our six kids will care for us when we are old ;)

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    Re: BBBorates

    +1 what RobbieH said. Definitely have your TA where you want it first...it's harder to "move" everything after you dose with borates, because it buffers/stabilizes things nicely.
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
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    Re: BBBorates

    I'll tell you what I did for TA, I rigged up some aerators and took my pH down to 7.0. It would very quickly rise to 8.0 and then I'd just do the same thing. I had it down in pretty quick order.

    Do you have a SWG?
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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    Re: BBBorates

    I had been doing just that. Even with a slide, a diving board, 4 deck jets and 6 kids, it takes almost two days to bring it back up again.
    Theresa and/or Gary

    Complete DIY: 20x40' rectangle. Resin walls, vinyl lined. 33000 gallons. Full width steps. 8' deep. Diving board, slide. Hayward pro series super pump, sand filter. Raypack 336K BTU heater. Main drain, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, 2 amerilite lights with quick change lens Aquamatic auto cover and a partridge in a pear tree.
    Breaking our backs in the hopes that one of our six kids will care for us when we are old ;)

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    Swampwoman's Avatar
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    Re: BBBorates

    Have you tried a fountain, which you can just leave running all day/night? That's what I did, but I don't think I was downing it more than every two days -- I think that's a sufficiently aggressive schedule
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
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  16. Back To Top    #16

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    Re: BBBorates

    Agreed, every two days sounds good. Go to salt, that'll make it go faster.
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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    Re: BBBorates

    what do you mean by 'go to salt'. I do not have an SWG, but I did add salt this year. Salt is different than borates, right?
    Theresa and/or Gary

    Complete DIY: 20x40' rectangle. Resin walls, vinyl lined. 33000 gallons. Full width steps. 8' deep. Diving board, slide. Hayward pro series super pump, sand filter. Raypack 336K BTU heater. Main drain, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, 2 amerilite lights with quick change lens Aquamatic auto cover and a partridge in a pear tree.
    Breaking our backs in the hopes that one of our six kids will care for us when we are old ;)

  18. Back To Top    #18
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    Re: BBBorates

    I don't quite understand the "go to salt" advice either. I've been on salt with a SWCG for a year now.

    I fought the TA battle this year & won before adding borates. Of course I'm dealing with a measly 13,000 gallons, lol. I do have extremely high TA fill water here though also (350+). It may be a battle next spring again when I refill. (I'm in Iowa, I have to drain partially for the winter freeze). But, I'm pleased so far. I also have a SWCG which tends to rise PH from the little bubbles it produces, but I've only had to add Muratic once to keep it in line since. It's been staying pretty stable. As far as the water feels, don't know if I noticed as much as a difference as others are reporting. Actually it feels the same. I noticed much more difference, as other guest swimmers did also from adding the salt to start the SWCG a year ago. If you care to read about my borate thread, here's my post..
    borates-next-t45592.html
    P.S. IMO & experience, If you do decide to add them, go the Duda Dsl route. No messing around adding muratic to compensate. Just add the Boric acid & your good to go.
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    Re: BBBorates

    "Go to Salt" just meant that by adding a SWG you'd add a lot of aeration and make the TA thing go faster.

    It sounds like you dont really like dealing with the acid - it is pretty nasty stuff. But it also sounds like your fill water has a high TA. Making a concerted effort to crush that TA way down will probably have significant benefits.

    As to the borates - remember they will only slow the PH rise, but it will then require additional acid to bring the PH back down. In a perfect world your pool may find a balance where the PH stabilizes in the upper 7's - but this balance involves the TA and PH of the fill water, the amount of fill water, amount of rain, aeration and a host of other factors that are hard to correct for.

    If you've already added salt to the pool adding borates may not do much more for the "feel" of the water. It'll have some effect but it wont be nearly as striking as adding borates to an unsalted pool.
    16K Gal Plaster | Compupool SWG | Intelliflow VF | TF-100

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