Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: Deciding to renovate or FILL IT IN???

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Deciding to renovate or FILL IT IN???

    Our first post and I apologize for its length. We've been lurking and LEARNING since early July. Now we have a dilemma. Thank God for TFP!!! Thanks to all of you for sharing your expertise. We have learned a Ton!!! Opened in May with filter running 24/7 and still with very CLOUDY water after clearing algae to blue cloudy water through beginning of July. Two seasons now of this-used to be crystal clear. This while paying for a new 2 speed pump that makes jingling noises since installed in 2011 and fighting with store to cover our 1 year+2 month old out of warranty sand filter when it started spraying water from a SEAM in the molded plastic/resin. That’s when we started really thinking about filling her in.

    July week 1 2012, store sells us $612 of chlorine – after discount - along with a bunch pH up. Wanted us to add--all at once-- 90# (yes pounds) of granular shock (17# of CaHypo+quick dissolve trichlor(?)) all at once (yikes!!!!) to fix the huge chlorine demand. Anyway, took the chemicals back after using the first 17# and deciding to fill it in. THEN we found TFP.

    We'd just about convinced ourselves that we could again have fun with the pool after passing all 3 parts of the shock test yesterday – have been shocking since 7/11/12.…..and THEN after hearing our water leveler running despite recent rain), shut everything off, plugged 2 skimmers, vacuum, 2 returns to do bucket test and lost 1 cm of water in 2 hours!!! After using pH reagent to detect leaks around the light, returns and skimmers, found a 1cm x 6 cm slit in the deep end trough. Thank you TFP – we are CLEAR so we could actually SEE the slit in the deep end. (The pool slopes from the shallow to the deep end (about 8-8.5’) and has a trough where the vinyl is pretty much bleached out thanks to using granular chlorine which you can’t tell is dissolved (or not) when brushing when the pool is cloudy. We’re waiting on the leak guy (recommended by store) to give us a call today. Dove last night and did a temporary patch but still getting 1 cm loss overnight. ($300 min for 2 hour visit)

    Here is our dilemma. We are looking at making a huge decision of spending $$$ to renovate instead of $$ to fill her in. Right now we have to get the leak plugged. Crossing our fingers that the rest of the bleached out trough doesn’t pop open. TFP has us convinced we can actually have a crystal clear pool and keep it that way without going broke on chemicals and resenting the expense. The $ saved will pay for part of the reno costs. We were just talking about getting a Liquidator, then this.

    This is what we are thinking and would really appreciate input about any areas of concern or problem. And a couple of reputable and not most wallet breaking companies in the region would be most appreciated. Plan:
    1) Deal with the leak(s)
    a) Patches to get us through this season– this is a must
    b) Pressure test the lines to make sure we don’t have any other hidden problems (earthquake last year increased # of deck cracks)
    c) Drain pool at the end of season
    2) Reno ideas (get a couple of estimates now and sign for spring work if not too $$$$)
    a) Remove light (leaked since installed with new liner in 2002)-no brainer
    b) Remove metal (under liner) corner steps company put in without OK for change from requires for #d (below)
    c) Concrete to level out pool from 4’6” or 5’ through deep end to increase usable area)-would remove the trough, too
    d) Install 2-3 concrete steps along entire shallow end wall-when the pool is swimmable, we have a lot of older relatives who just sit on the steps but there isn't enough room then for others to get in
    e) Replace liner
    f) Replace worn out Loop loc mesh cover (well over 12 years old) with tight mesh version
    g) Consider SWG or Liquidator - SWG sounds $$ and has issues based on some postings
    h) Refurbish fiberglass pool slide (we can do this) – is 4’6” or 5’ deep enough?

    Sorry for the length of the post, but we've been able to answer/resolve all the other problems the past couple of weeks based on the postings, but still not clear on these. Don't want to throw more $ in the 20'x40' hole in our back yard unless the expense is worth it. Thanks again to everyone who has posted in the many many posts we've read since 7/11/12 that have made us lean more toward keeping it instead of filling it in...
    33,000 gal, sand filter, 20'x40' IG vinyl (12 year old liner), 2 speed pump, sand filter, Fall 2013 dense mesh LoopLoc cover, pool installed in the '70s, Howard County, Maryland

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SouthWest Alabama
    Posts
    22,345

    Re: Deciding to renovate or FILL IT IN???

    The first thing I would do is all the tests to see if the plumbing is good. The liner can be patched unless there's a huge problem with it.

    You're not going to want a liquidator. Your pool is too large for a liquidator to be a help. It will most likely keep up with the FC but in a pool that size you'll be constantly filling it. I'd suggest a swg.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Re: Deciding to renovate or FILL IT IN???

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler
    The first thing I would do is all the tests to see if the plumbing is good. The liner can be patched unless there's a huge problem with it.

    You're not going to want a liquidator. Your pool is too large for a liquidator to be a help. It will most likely keep up with the FC but in a pool that size you'll be constantly filling it. I'd suggest a swg.
    Thanks so much for your quick reply. Didn't realize the Liquidator would have size limits, but thinking about it kind of makes sense given how much chlorine is going to be needed to keep the TC level at goal. Did get ALD scheduled for tomorrow. The other guy hasn't returned calls yet. The standard fee includes line checks also but they are $$$ per hour. Hopefully the lines will be OK and that will make us feel better if we decide to reno. TFP has the pool looking so good that we would really like to keep this thing functioning.

    And I just found a post that says we are probably OK with 4'6" or 5' for the slide which is good news. Thanks again for that fast reply and the whole site!!
    33,000 gal, sand filter, 20'x40' IG vinyl (12 year old liner), 2 speed pump, sand filter, Fall 2013 dense mesh LoopLoc cover, pool installed in the '70s, Howard County, Maryland

  4. Back To Top    #4
    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Mint Hill, NC
    Posts
    2,589

    Re: Deciding to renovate or FILL IT IN???

    Quote Originally Posted by gamspool
    And I just found a post that says we are probably OK with 4'6" or 5' for the slide which is good news. Thanks again for that fast reply and the whole site!!
    My pool is 5.75' and we have a large slide on a 16'x32' pool with sloped sides on the deep end. This is plenty of depth and I wouldn't worry too much. Your Mileage May Vary based on what your kids try to do off the slide...
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

  5. Back To Top    #5
    linen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Twin Cities, MN
    Posts
    8,649

    Re: Deciding to renovate or FILL IT IN???

    Welcome to tfp, gamspool

    Quote Originally Posted by gamspool
    Consider SWG or Liquidator - SWG sounds $$ and has issues based on some postings
    You'll find many more people happy with their swg (me included) than those having problems. If you have soft stone around your pool you may not want it, but most everything else is okay.

    Quote Originally Posted by gamspool
    Concrete to level out pool from 4’6” or 5’ through deep end to increase usable area)-would remove the trough, too
    May I ask why? I love deeper pools, though I understand that is not everyone's preference. I am not sure that is where I would spend my renovation money, since that might get a bit expensive. Do you have floor drains in the deep area?
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

  6. Back To Top    #6
    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Mint Hill, NC
    Posts
    2,589

    Re: Deciding to renovate or FILL IT IN???

    I forgot to mention that our pool liner is probably from 2003 and also has significant bleaching in the deep end and along one side where we suspect someone got "chemical happy". So far knock on bleach, no leaks and no problems with the liner.
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Re: Deciding to renovate or FILL IT IN???

    Quote Originally Posted by linen
    Welcome to tfp, gamspool

    Quote Originally Posted by gamspool
    Consider SWG or Liquidator - SWG sounds $$ and has issues based on some postings
    You'll find many more people happy with their swg (me included) than those having problems. If you have soft stone around your pool you may not want it, but most everything else is okay.

    Quote Originally Posted by gamspool
    Concrete to level out pool from 4’6” or 5’ through deep end to increase usable area)-would remove the trough, too
    May I ask why? I love deeper pools, though I understand that is not everyone's preference. I am not sure that is where I would spend my renovation money, since that might get a bit expensive. Do you have floor drains in the deep area?
    Thanks - not finding review about SWG most of what I found were trouble postings. This is great news as we'd thought about it before seriously considering the back hoe and fill dirt option.

    No drains, just 2 skimmers and a vacuum port on the side of the pool. We have concrete everywhere around the pool - no rocks except the little pebbles that find my feet every time I go out. The guy who built it also built gas stations and did a very durable job save some cracks that we think got worse with our earthquake earlier this year. No kids here but when we actually have been able to use the pool it's when others' kids are around or the older folks in the family. The pool starts off with a little area (maybe 4 or 5 feet long) of about 3.5-4' and then relatively quickly slopes down to the deep end. It's almost over my head (and that of most of those who use it) at about 1/3 into the length and way over my head at the middle of the pool, so unless people are jumping in the deep end (not often) they are usually crowded around the one third of the pool that is what we call usable (unless they are on noodles and even those folks end up in the small part of the shallow end). Thanks for pointing that out though. We will rethink about how deep to go considering our tallest pool user is about 6'. I'd hate to have him crouch down to get wet.

    Hubby has a cousin who does concrete and we thought while drained (assume we need a new liner and don't have under concrete leak issues, we could get him out to help guide us in a DIY job with him actually pouring the concrete.

    We are pretty worried about the leak and holding onto the current liner though if it's this fragile where the chemicals have apparently done their damage despite brushing when trying to get uncloudy and couldn't see if we'd brushed enough. Had been pouring lots of $$$ into chemicals that made us add more chemicals. Having the leak going on who knows how long, we are worried about losing support under our underground propane tank which is about 20-25' down hill along the "fall line" from the pool leak (the one we know about anyway). So we are anxious to get it fixed and to make sure it doesn't happen again. Pool problems have plagued us enough, don't want to deal with a shifting propane tank to boot. Thus thinking about biting the bullet and going for the new liner and getting a pool we will actually be able to use (laps, old folks, usual entertaining). The slide gets a lot of use even though the coating has gotten down to a black (and now tan) area so we know that needs a good redo. Getting rid of some of the deep will also remove the trough. Although we aren't planning on using any granular chemicals (except for getting the borax levels up) it will get rid of the trough that is just a nuisance for that and the suicide worms we get every spring. Probably save $ on bleach too with fewer gallons to treat of unused pool volume.

    Jeez BBB is so much easier and less frustrating. Our pool is finally CLEAR!!!!
    33,000 gal, sand filter, 20'x40' IG vinyl (12 year old liner), 2 speed pump, sand filter, Fall 2013 dense mesh LoopLoc cover, pool installed in the '70s, Howard County, Maryland

  8. Back To Top    #8
    Vette's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    404

    Re: Deciding to renovate or FILL IT IN???

    Keep the deep end for the sake of the tall guy. I'm 6', my 54" high AGP is way too short :P

    You do have a proper test kit, correct?
    11,700 gallon 21' round 54" deep all-resin AGP - June 2012
    Waterway 1HP 2-speed pump / 100 sq ft cartridge filter
    Hayward 150,000btu Natural Gas heater
    I use and recommend the TF-100 for testing

  9. Back To Top    #9
    linen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Twin Cities, MN
    Posts
    8,649

    Re: Deciding to renovate or FILL IT IN???

    Quote Originally Posted by gamspool
    Thanks - not finding review about SWG most of what I found were trouble postings.
    Most people don't post on here unless they are having trouble. If you look at signatures, you will find many of us "helpers" have swgs and use them without complaint.

    Quote Originally Posted by gamspool
    The pool starts off with a little area (maybe 4 or 5 feet long) of about 3.5-4' and then relatively quickly slopes down to the deep end. It's almost over my head (and that of most of those who use it) at about 1/3 into the length and way over my head at the middle of the pool, so unless people are jumping in the deep end (not often) they are usually crowded around the one third of the pool that is what we call usable (unless they are on noodles and even those folks end up in the small part of the shallow end). Thanks for pointing that out though. We will rethink about how deep to go considering our tallest pool user is about 6'. I'd hate to have him crouch down to get wet.
    That is a small shallow section. My view on deep ends is probably skewed being from Minnesota where many of us swim in lakes all the time and being comfortable in deep water is considered mandatory by many (myself included) from a safety perspective. If my kids were using your pool (okay..I'll admit it...me too), they would love the depth and would spend most of their time there.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    4,052

    Re: Deciding to renovate or FILL IT IN???

    Bama,
    I kept my pool chlorinated for 5-7 days on a fill with a Liquidator. But, for me it wasn't convenient enough, and I travel a lot so 5 days was not enough reservoir.

    I love my SWG.
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
    If TFP has helped you, please click to SUPPORT TFP!

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Re: Deciding to renovate or FILL IT IN???

    Quote Originally Posted by Vette
    Keep the deep end for the sake of the tall guy. I'm 6', my 54" high AGP is way too short :P

    You do have a proper test kit, correct?
    Of course! My handy TF100 - received it 7/11 as I converted to BBB - I could not have finally gotten my pool clear without it. Got the XL size on the FAS-DPD and had so many tests I am in my first refill. We haven't been totally clear for 2 seasons. Don't expect to use that up soon though since it is sparkling! Wish it wasn't leaking. I hear you on the 6' request. Duly noted and probably will keep some deep but want to get rid of most of the slope. How deep to come up to your neck height?
    33,000 gal, sand filter, 20'x40' IG vinyl (12 year old liner), 2 speed pump, sand filter, Fall 2013 dense mesh LoopLoc cover, pool installed in the '70s, Howard County, Maryland

  12. Back To Top    #12
    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Mint Hill, NC
    Posts
    2,589

    Re: Deciding to renovate or FILL IT IN???

    Quote Originally Posted by gamspool
    I hear you on the 6' request. Duly noted and probably will keep some deep but want to get rid of most of the slope. How deep to come up to your neck height?
    I'm 5'11" and my 5' 8" deep pool is adequate. I grew up swiming in a pool that was 12' deep (not ours just what I swam in) and I loved it but it hurt my ears (sinus troubles). 6' is probably plenty deep if you don't want a diving board - even for a 6' swimmer.

    My pool to give perspective is about 1/4 at 3.5', then about 1/3 sloping down to 4.5', then another 1/3 sloping down to 5.75' and the rest sloping back up to the wall. The deep end is between 5.5 and 5.75' deep. My wife is 5' 4" and doesn't like to swim in water over her head but this limited depth makes her comfortable floating with a noodle in the deep end.
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

  13. Back To Top    #13
    Vette's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    404

    Re: Deciding to renovate or FILL IT IN???

    Quote Originally Posted by gamspool
    Quote Originally Posted by Vette
    Keep the deep end for the sake of the tall guy. I'm 6', my 54" high AGP is way too short :P

    You do have a proper test kit, correct?
    Of course! My handy TF100 - received it 7/11 as I converted to BBB - I could not have finally gotten my pool clear without it. Got the XL size on the FAS-DPD and had so many tests I am in my first refill. We haven't been totally clear for 2 seasons. Don't expect to use that up soon though since it is sparkling! Wish it wasn't leaking. I hear you on the 6' request. Duly noted and probably will keep some deep but want to get rid of most of the slope. How deep to come up to your neck height?
    Nice job with the test kit

    5' 6" deep would be fine since water level is slightly lower. I just am not a huge fan of standing on my knees, especially when I'm at my cousins pool (48" walls). That's for standing, if you want to be able to just float, not necessarily stand, then certainly an even 6' would be nice while still being less depth than you currently have.

    I second the thing about lakes. I'm used to swimming in Lake Erie where depths are >30ft everywhere.
    11,700 gallon 21' round 54" deep all-resin AGP - June 2012
    Waterway 1HP 2-speed pump / 100 sq ft cartridge filter
    Hayward 150,000btu Natural Gas heater
    I use and recommend the TF-100 for testing

  14. Back To Top    #14

    Re: Deciding to renovate or FILL IT IN???

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler
    The first thing I would do is all the tests to see if the plumbing is good. The liner can be patched unless there's a huge problem with it.

    You're not going to want a liquidator. Your pool is too large for a liquidator to be a help. It will most likely keep up with the FC but in a pool that size you'll be constantly filling it. I'd suggest a swg.
    Thanks to everyone for posting so quickly. We have a lot of food for thought. Just paid $525 for ALD to dive and pressure test the lines. They were very professional and seemed to do a thorough job. GREAT news! He repatched the big slit that hubby fixed since it wasn't secure, found and patched 2 more holes in the deep end (~8-8'5") that were due to rocks wearing through the liner apparently from either or all of our Baracuda G3, Dolphin (inherited) and/or brushing and patched a pinhole leak at the steps. [Note to self: check the hole before getting a new liner and make sure there are no rocks left in there before the liner goes in! And if we get another leak, check for the other known rocks under the liner. I know there are 2 in the shallow end.] Fortunately, the pressure test was fine - no underground plumbing leaks (whew!!). Still a little ahead in $ thanks to TFP and BBB after returning the $600+ in chemicals even after the $525 for leak detection/repair. And the best news was that ALD thinks we probably have another 2 or maybe more years on the liner "if we keep our water chemistry correct" which we know we can do now right here at home! He hadn't heard of TFP but is a bleach user so I told him about how great the site is.

    So now we are probably going to take our time and better plan a reno, putting all that saved chemical $ in the bank for the project. For now, I think we are going to go ahead and get the new Loop loc, refurbish the sliding board this winter, and go ahead and get a SWG after doing research on which one to get. In the meantime, we are not going to leave the autoleveler on autopilot without watching for water loss more closely.

    Again, we can't thank TFP (and everyone who has posted such useful information on this site) enough. We are finally using the slow speed on the pump, have a clear pool and are saving lots of $ on chemicals thanks to this fantastic site. And we are enjoying our pool again!!!
    33,000 gal, sand filter, 20'x40' IG vinyl (12 year old liner), 2 speed pump, sand filter, Fall 2013 dense mesh LoopLoc cover, pool installed in the '70s, Howard County, Maryland

  15. Back To Top    #15
    linen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Twin Cities, MN
    Posts
    8,649

    Re: Deciding to renovate or FILL IT IN???

    Glad you didn't have any plumbing leaks! Great to get those liner leaks found/fixed as well!

    Sounds like you have a good plan, let us know if any questions come up.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

  16. Back To Top    #16
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SouthWest Alabama
    Posts
    22,345

    Re: Deciding to renovate or FILL IT IN???

    That makes your decision a little easier. Glad no plumbing leaks were found.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  17. Back To Top    #17
    Lershac's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Baton Rouge, LA
    Posts
    1,215

    Re: Deciding to renovate or FILL IT IN???

    Yeah! You are going to have a fantastic pool when you are done.

    And here is another me too! On the swg. I love mine for the convenience.
    (DIY):16K Gal 20X30 rectangular IG Gunite, w/spa, CCP 520 filter,2 Pentair VS pumps, 400KBTU Pentair gas heater, Heat Pump for cooling, **update5.25.2013** added an intellichem with acid pump that will control existing SWG. My Build Thread Here

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •