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Thread: paying it forward

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    monkeywrench's Avatar
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    paying it forward

    Hi Folks, its been some time since i've been on the forum, especially since they blocked it at work You all and the BBB method have done wonders for my pool over the last several years that I have been paying it forward by helping any one I can with their pools,they are all on their own now using theTF100 and the BBB method,some folks even in their eighties that have had pools for 30+ years have said their pools have never looked better. What brings me here today is I have a new friend in trouble, in the past i's only taken me 4 or so days for results, no going so well this time I'm sure I'm on the right track and haven't had to dig deep for this much POP in a while.
    It's an 21ft round 11700gal, sand filter, new install filled with town water 7-2-12 (high iron) she put no stabilizer she cured her clear green tinted iron problem with iron out but never really dosed it with chlorine on the 18th the bright green alge bloom appeared the pool store gave her a bucket of some thing (she cant remember) to get the metals to settle to the bottom of the pool, it went from line green to grey thick soup and slime that could be scooped off the top then back to gray milk, she then added 1/2qt of poly60.
    This is where I came in, brought my TF 100 over , hers is on the way, no CYA, no FC, 1CC,PH 6.8. I adjusted for 7.2 which is where we're at now I dosed with stabilizer for a CYA of 50 we brought FC up to 15 it held overnight dropped to 13 this morning .5 CC re dosed it of an FC of 16, vac and brush continuously of course. I'm not getting much visually but the numbers look good. I guess i'm looking for confirmation that i did not miss something.
    thanks all
    jb
    14x28 IG Vinyl
    12.5k gal
    Hayward SP-Super Pump
    Hayward Pro-Grid 36sqft DE
    Hayward auto chlorine feeder (offline:using BBB)
    Hayward AG Gas heater

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    frogabog's Avatar
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    Re: paying it forward

    What a nice thing to do! We need more like you around, there's a lot of help online but real people helping real people in real life is an awesome testament to TFP's impact.

    16ppm would be the minimum shock level for a pool with 50ppm CYA (pool calculator - check CYA chart in pool school, it's probably higher there even). Sounds like dropping below 16ppm is stalling you. Maybe give the pool a nice fat tip when you dose, to allow for loss between dosings so it doesn't actually fall below shock level. If she's losing 3ppm between dosings in sun, tip the pool 4ppm (dose to 20ppm) instead.
    Where kids swim in 54 degree water, turn blue, and giggle happily cuz they got a POOL!
    Year 3 BBB -15' x 48" Intex Metal Frame - Was using (2) 1000gph Intex cartridge filters (see Full time pumping Intex). 2012, converted to 1600gph and sand filter+SWG = Sand filter love affair!
    Don't waste time and energy looking for a better value on test kits, the TF100 is the best deal around. I did the looking and spent the extra money, but you don't have to make the same mistake. Just go here: TFTestkits. I use Pool Calculator for min/max, and shocking chlorine levels.

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    monkeywrench's Avatar
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    Re: paying it forward

    thanks I knew you guys would come up with something, I'll give that boost a try, like I said I dosed for a CYA of 50 only Friday night so I'm only assuming 50 CYA no real number until next weekend by then she'll have her kit. I lent her mine in the mean time and she's already getting the hang of it. I'd like to give her some hope with a little water clarity!

    Thanks
    JB
    14x28 IG Vinyl
    12.5k gal
    Hayward SP-Super Pump
    Hayward Pro-Grid 36sqft DE
    Hayward auto chlorine feeder (offline:using BBB)
    Hayward AG Gas heater

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    monkeywrench's Avatar
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    Re: paying it forward

    Hi Folks, back again, my student (a teacher mind you!) has gone rogue on me and lost POP , her milky water has led to some over chlorination behind my back. While i was there I noticed the pool wasn't even close to electrical code so I've been buring conduit pulling cable,installing GFI, and installing the installing bond, all the time giving over the shoulder advice, things were going well except visually, then it happened.. 4 bottles of 12% and 8oz of aglecide. we now have an FC of 40.
    She now has her own TF 100 and I was agble to get back to concentrating on the water now that the electrical was safe.
    FC 40 ph7.2 cc 0.0
    My question is what harm other than the liner is an FC of 40. What can I do to change the appearance not much change in 5 days, hence the chem dump.
    Also I been having her leave the vac brush hooked up at the bottom of the pool (AG), to try to change the circulation pattern downward since she only has the skimmer.
    I've told her I'm taking over I know TFP can fix this , do I just need more POP?

    jb
    14x28 IG Vinyl
    12.5k gal
    Hayward SP-Super Pump
    Hayward Pro-Grid 36sqft DE
    Hayward auto chlorine feeder (offline:using BBB)
    Hayward AG Gas heater

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: paying it forward

    Have you confirmed the CYA in the pool yet (still a little early).

    I think you need more POP. Maybe try some DE in the filter to see if it helps clear the pool more quickly.

    Hopefully, the algaecide did not have copper in it
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    monkeywrench's Avatar
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    Re: paying it forward

    I have not confirmeds as of yet, Saturday will be a week, my filter is DE so I have some on hand, I will check the algaecide for copper ( what IF?) . Also no more chlorine ? just keep testing for CC's?
    14x28 IG Vinyl
    12.5k gal
    Hayward SP-Super Pump
    Hayward Pro-Grid 36sqft DE
    Hayward auto chlorine feeder (offline:using BBB)
    Hayward AG Gas heater

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: paying it forward

    With just the one dose of algaecide, that may not be too much copper (if it has it). If it get too high, then you can get staining and green hair and have to start using chemicals to prevent that ... or replace water.

    For now, just let the FC drift down and then maintain it at the correct shock level until the 3 tests are passed.

    It is very likely that raise the FC that high has damaged and maybe faded the liner ... that is well above mustard shock level. Explain it to them that way ... they may have just shortened the life of their liner.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    monkeywrench's Avatar
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    Re: paying it forward

    thanks Jason will do i'm going to have just FC and CC test and brush.

    jb
    14x28 IG Vinyl
    12.5k gal
    Hayward SP-Super Pump
    Hayward Pro-Grid 36sqft DE
    Hayward auto chlorine feeder (offline:using BBB)
    Hayward AG Gas heater

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: paying it forward

    One thing I don't see is a CH number. While low CH isn't an issue with a vinyl pool high CH can cause scaling and even clouding.

    I think it's time to run a full set of tests again.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    monkeywrench's Avatar
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    Re: paying it forward

    Good morning I hope everyone's Saturday is as pretty as it is here in central MA. I'm still on this pay it forward project, the owner has gone on vacation for two weeks so the ball is totally in my court now.
    The water is still milky so this morning I've gone after the equipment. Filtration is via a sand filter, postings here have stated that sand filterers are the slowest to clear and since she had so much green goo i decided to take a look. I have not maintained a sand filter before, I know folks have said that the sand should not have to be replaced but since she got the pool used i thought I'd start fresh. I drained the ball from the bottom the water looked like the back wash water, goldish brown, dumped the sand and it was full of green crud, washed it all out and I'm read to start fresh. the system is a Proline 22" 150 lbs of sand label says it requires #20 silica. My questions are,
    1.what are your recommendations for the sand, where can I get it, can I use play sand or is it special.
    2. When the filter is reassembled what is the procedures far as setting the internal feed tubing, meaning set it on the bottom and then add sand or should there be a layer of sand below the tubes
    3 should the 150lbs of sand fill most of the ball or should there be a gap at the top?, it didn't look like 150 lbs came out.
    4. should i the fill the filter with water before starting or just let the pump fill it from the pool
    5 I also want to add a layer of DE on top of the sand, about how many inches thick of a layer should I add.

    thanks for nay input, I'm hoping to have this resolved for her by the time she returns from vacation.

    thanks
    jb
    14x28 IG Vinyl
    12.5k gal
    Hayward SP-Super Pump
    Hayward Pro-Grid 36sqft DE
    Hayward auto chlorine feeder (offline:using BBB)
    Hayward AG Gas heater

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    dattia's Avatar
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    Re: paying it forward

    If the filter has a lateral assembly with a center pipe, inspect the laterals for any cracks. If it is ok, place it down into the filter and then partially fill with water before placing your sand. The sand should be specifically for filters and is available at most pool stores and perhaps Lowes or Home Depot. The water helps cushion the laterals from the impact of the sand and helps disperse it. When you have the required amount of sand, replace the valve head... and this is very important... BACKWASH first, probably a bit longer than you think you need. Any DE or filter aid can then be added at this point through the skimmer.


    PS>>> cover the center tube opening with a cardboard 'tent' so sand does not go down into the tube, but will cascade down the sides of the 'tent' and into the filter. When you reassemble everything and backwash, the filter will fill up with water the rest of the way. My sand goes to about 6 inches or so from the top of the tube, there will be some space left at the top.
    27' round AG
    Hayward Matrix 1 1/2 HP Pump
    Hayward S210T Sand Filter

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    monkeywrench's Avatar
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    Re: paying it forward

    Thanks for the info especially the back wash tip,i'm assuming that helps settle everything? It does have the lateral pipe set up as you described.
    I'm wondering if anyone out there has purchased sand any where other than the dreaded pool store?
    thanks
    JB
    14x28 IG Vinyl
    12.5k gal
    Hayward SP-Super Pump
    Hayward Pro-Grid 36sqft DE
    Hayward auto chlorine feeder (offline:using BBB)
    Hayward AG Gas heater

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    dattia's Avatar
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    Re: paying it forward

    Yes, it helps settle things and more importantly, gets rid of any dust or dirt that may be in the sand. You sure don't want that going straight into the pool. Please note that I put an addition to my post about covering the center tube...it is also a very important thing.
    27' round AG
    Hayward Matrix 1 1/2 HP Pump
    Hayward S210T Sand Filter

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    monkeywrench's Avatar
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    Re: paying it forward

    Great tips dattia, the sand I dumped from the filter was probably 12 to 14 inches from the top of the tube, sound like not nearly enough
    14x28 IG Vinyl
    12.5k gal
    Hayward SP-Super Pump
    Hayward Pro-Grid 36sqft DE
    Hayward auto chlorine feeder (offline:using BBB)
    Hayward AG Gas heater

  15. Back To Top    #15
    monkeywrench's Avatar
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    Re: paying it forward

    Hi just returned from my PIF project , the water shows some improvements by not too exciting there is about 16" of visibility from the surface. Saturday I rebuilt the filter, it looks like play sand may have been used compared to the much finer Leslie's sand.
    Great tips on assembly and start up, thank you v-much. I have no experience with sand filters, am I expecting too much from 3 days? ( looking for sand users with a former algae problem). I'm pretty sure the scum has been licked, here are tonight's numbers
    FC 16
    CC .5
    CYA 35
    PH 7.2 - holding well for several days
    TA 70
    CH 100 -interesting: during the test the solids in the water seemed to be dyed blue, they were clearly visible and stayed suspended in the cylinder while sitting on the table ( TDS ? anyone see this before?)


    I mixed up a little DE to treat the sand hoping for some better clarity results
    Any body have any suggestions the clear this thing up or just POP

    thanks for any thing you have, I have a week and a half before the owner comes back, I need to "prove" TFP does work!

    all the best
    JB
    14x28 IG Vinyl
    12.5k gal
    Hayward SP-Super Pump
    Hayward Pro-Grid 36sqft DE
    Hayward auto chlorine feeder (offline:using BBB)
    Hayward AG Gas heater

  16. Back To Top    #16
    dattia's Avatar
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    Re: paying it forward

    Sorry to say that clear and sparkly from green and yucky does take time with a sand filter. I boost my sand filter with DE alternative, run the filter 24/7 and use skimmer socks when clearing my swamp. I have continued the practice and it is my normal routine now. Good luck!
    27' round AG
    Hayward Matrix 1 1/2 HP Pump
    Hayward S210T Sand Filter

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    techguy's Avatar
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    Re: paying it forward

    Based on my readings, when you add DE to sand, it will require more attention, like a DE filter and swampy water.
    -- Guy --
    10K gallons in 21' Round 52 inch wall Aqualeader AG, Hayward Power Flow LX 1.5 HP pump motor, Hayward Perflex EC50AC DE filter w/Cellulose, Wide mouth skimmer, 2013 new Diver Dan (craigslist) to replace the faded old Hayward AquaBug. TF-100

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    Re: paying it forward

    When in a hurry... don't skimp on the chlorine, never let it fall below shock value.
    Overdose by a couple of ppm to maintain any losses that may put you under your CYA shock value. When I shocked with 40 cya, I used 50 cya on the chart, long work days were setting me back with a sand filter.
    I waited until +3 psi to over clean to back wash, then rinse for at least a minute to 1 1/2 minutes. I have a waterway 22" sand filter with fresh pool sand right before shocking. I was a week in that I started shocking with the 50ppm dosing and took only three days and cleared right up.

    Chuck
    Swim n Play 21' round, expandable 72" liner, 6FT deep center, buried 14", 12,750 Gallons
    Waterway 1HP-2 speed with 22" Sand filter
    TF-100 test kit
    Thanks to TFP my pool is perfect all the time :party:
    I now suffer from Sparklypoolitis! :whoot:
    I am a Platinum contributor because I want everyone who comes here to Trouble Free Pool to have the same success that I enjoy with my pool and family.

  19. Back To Top    #19
    monkeywrench's Avatar
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    Re: paying it forward

    Thanks guys, I put all those practices into play. I also have made an inline cartridge set up from supplies I had a work I'll try to install on Thursday

    jb
    14x28 IG Vinyl
    12.5k gal
    Hayward SP-Super Pump
    Hayward Pro-Grid 36sqft DE
    Hayward auto chlorine feeder (offline:using BBB)
    Hayward AG Gas heater

  20. Back To Top    #20
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    Re: paying it forward

    Regarding this:
    she cured her clear green tinted iron problem with iron out
    Please be aware that another poster on this thread had called the mfg of super iron out and was told NOT to use it in pool water. (Provided you're talking about the stuff you buy at the hardware store in the red label meant for cleaning rust stains.) Now, that could just be a standard "cover your butt" answer...but thought you should know.

    Hate to say it, but you might want to look into that. It could a) be throwing off your chemistry and b) not actually be good to swim in -- I'd call mfg and try to confirm that comment.

    I do believe there is citric acid in it, however, so some of the pool's behavior will be "as if" you've done an ascorbic acid treatment I think.

    I have lots of super iron out at home -- I can read the label tonight and let you know. (BTW, the stuff really DOES absolutely work on iron stains around the house! IMMEDIATELY. So maybe we SHOULD be trying it in the pool if we can get the straight of why they say not to...)
    In ground extended Grecian, 22,000 gal, Hayward 220t sand filter, vinyl liner, dolphin m4 supreme.
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