I went through the AA process two plus weeks ago - stains disappeared almost instantly, followed up with brushing and vaccuuming then removed the filter cartidges and hosed off thoroughly. Unfortunately I failed to add a sequestering agent and my stains have returned so I'm back to square one. My pool is also still a bit on the cloudy side - water is blue but I can't see the bottom at the deep end. Any recommendations?
I failed to add a sequestering agent and my stains have returned
- Thread starter RJD422
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Re: I failed to add a sequestering agent and my stains have
Add one 32oz bottle of Jack's Magic Blue Stuff per 10,000 gals if non-saltwater or 32oz bottle of Jack's Magic Purple Stuff if saltwater per 10,000 gals.
Buy Jack's Sequestrant Test Kit to maintain sequestrant level at 20 ppm to 30 ppm (30 ppm might be better for 3 or 4 weeks as it has been 2 weeks since you did the AA treatment).
One issue with the "Sequestrant Test Kit" is that the new tablets which are foil wrapped do not instantly mix, so it is better to mix then let it settle for 5 or 10 minutes, and then mix again, then shake, covering the pin hole opening on the cover, and then test. If this is not done as all of the tablet has not dissolved one will get a false reading indicating a higher amount of sequestrant in the pool than is really there, example: if not mixed properly reading indicates 18 ppm of sequestrant in the pool, if mixed properly indicates 10 ppm of sequestrant in the pool. Also rocking the test tube back and forth, say 45 degrees in each direction (not upside down) gently helps to mix the test sequestrant better and gives more accurate results
This might solve problem in 3 to 4 weeks, IF this just happened. If you AA treated the pool more than a few weeks ago it could take longer, also keep calcium at the lower end of the recommended range say 300 ppm in a plaster pool, not sure of the range in a vinyl/fiberglass pool. If it does not solve issue at least you will have enough sequestrant in pool if you have to do another AA treatment.
Hope this helps.
Add one 32oz bottle of Jack's Magic Blue Stuff per 10,000 gals if non-saltwater or 32oz bottle of Jack's Magic Purple Stuff if saltwater per 10,000 gals.
Buy Jack's Sequestrant Test Kit to maintain sequestrant level at 20 ppm to 30 ppm (30 ppm might be better for 3 or 4 weeks as it has been 2 weeks since you did the AA treatment).
One issue with the "Sequestrant Test Kit" is that the new tablets which are foil wrapped do not instantly mix, so it is better to mix then let it settle for 5 or 10 minutes, and then mix again, then shake, covering the pin hole opening on the cover, and then test. If this is not done as all of the tablet has not dissolved one will get a false reading indicating a higher amount of sequestrant in the pool than is really there, example: if not mixed properly reading indicates 18 ppm of sequestrant in the pool, if mixed properly indicates 10 ppm of sequestrant in the pool. Also rocking the test tube back and forth, say 45 degrees in each direction (not upside down) gently helps to mix the test sequestrant better and gives more accurate results
This might solve problem in 3 to 4 weeks, IF this just happened. If you AA treated the pool more than a few weeks ago it could take longer, also keep calcium at the lower end of the recommended range say 300 ppm in a plaster pool, not sure of the range in a vinyl/fiberglass pool. If it does not solve issue at least you will have enough sequestrant in pool if you have to do another AA treatment.
Hope this helps.
Re: I failed to add a sequestering agent and my stains have
Thanks, I added Jack's Magic Blue Stuff today. Fingers crossed.
Thanks, I added Jack's Magic Blue Stuff today. Fingers crossed.
Re: I failed to add a sequestering agent and my stains have
RJD422,
Thank you for your kind reply, glad to be of help.
A few other things that might be of help:
1. After you have added the sequestrant a fair amount will be used up quickly so best to test with the sequestrant test kit and get it back up to 30 ppm, after that test twice a week, for a week or two. After that once week should be ok if you have little or no wind born iron, not the case here in Hawaii. After a few weeks you might be able to go down to 20 ppm, but I have found that keeping it at 30 ppm does a better job, and really does not cost more, other than the extra initial 10 ppm and perhaps a little extra chlorine usage.
The tablets can be re-ordered from Jack's and are about 10 cents each. I order 50 at a time. The test sequestrant I ordered came in a large bottle and will last a long time, it was expensive but I cannot remember the price. They also sell a smaller bottle.
2. Keep the chlorine at half-way of the recommended point, if the "Pool Calculator" says 4-6 go for 5, as you now have a fair amount of phosphate in the pool. Do not go higher on the chlorine for the first month, or two, as this too can cause staining.
3. I find that backwashing twice a month say around the 15th of the month and the end of the month also helps iron stains to stay out of the pool. If I leave it for a whole month I will see stains re-appearing, especially on my long steps where I have two jets. Not sure why this is as the pressure on the sand filter has not risen by that much, but it does occur. When backwashing my filter states 2-3 minutes I normally only do it for 2 minutes, as I am doing this twice a month. Re-circulating time is recommended at 30-45 seconds, I do it for 30 seconds.
When backwashing you might see some fine white crystals, according to Jack this is iron combining with some of the sequestrant. I think however that most of the iron stays sequestered in the pool water and little is actually backwashed out.
4. I also put in 5 oz per 10,000 gallons of the "Magenta Stuff" per week, which is fine for both non-saltwater and saltwater pools. This too seems to help, again not sure why. Unlike the "Blue Stuff" it does not contain Phosphates.
5. If you have a pool cleaner with a filter or trap, cleaning it every two days also helps. This is only needed if you have a fair amount of plant debris falling into the pool as plant material also contains iron. I use "Pool Socks" on both my trap and skimmer basket. To keep most of it out of the sand filter.
6. It is also very important to keep your pH between 7.4 and 7.2 , I find 7.3 works well and leaves me a small reserve of 0.1 but then my pH fluctuates very little over the day as the pool is covered during the hours of darkness. Each morning the automatic acid feeder adds about 3 oz of acid in a 10,000 gallon pool. If you pH goes above 7.4 regardless of how much Jack's Magic stuff you have in the pool it will precipitate iron and stain the pool.
7. If your alkalinity is higher than recommended by the "Pool Calculator" then staining might also occur and you pH might bounce around too much.
8. Do not worry about Phosphates creating algae, mine currently measure 18,000 + and the pool looks great. This only works if you maintain the correct chlorine ppm level, as often mentioned by the experts on this forum. Needless to say you need to make sure your chlorine is maintained at the correct level daily by checking daily.
9. If your fill water has iron in it and you have drained the pool you might want to use a new and not used feed adjustable garden pesticide garden hose sprayer to fill your pool, adjusting the dosage accordingly and filling the pesticide sprayer with the "Blue" or "Pink" sequestrant so it mixes properly, adding perhaps a small amount of acid to the pool, every so often, as it fills (obviously not directly to the plaster and only perhaps when it becomes 1/8th filled with water) depending on your fill water's ph. Sloshing it around the pool with a pool pole and brush. This might avoid the problem of the iron bound fill water immediately staining the plaster. Our fill water fortunately contains no measurable iron.
Note: I would not ever add muriatic acid to a garden pesticide hose feeder as water may drip back into the plastic bottle and cause it to explode and possibly cause serious injury not limited to total blindness.
Doing the above has kept my pool virtually stain free for an extended period, for the first time in many years, actually ever. I am nearly sure, but not postive, that eventually, I will still have to do an AA iron treatment. The time between them however might be greatly extended from 6 months to possibly as long as 2 or 3 years, if I am right and that of course is a big maybe.
I live in "Iron Central" where iron laden volcanic dust blows in daily from the mountain I live on by trade winds normally at 16-24 mph and quite often ar 25-45 mph or more, the advice given then is well tested.
Hope this helps and good luck.
RJD422,
Thank you for your kind reply, glad to be of help.
A few other things that might be of help:
1. After you have added the sequestrant a fair amount will be used up quickly so best to test with the sequestrant test kit and get it back up to 30 ppm, after that test twice a week, for a week or two. After that once week should be ok if you have little or no wind born iron, not the case here in Hawaii. After a few weeks you might be able to go down to 20 ppm, but I have found that keeping it at 30 ppm does a better job, and really does not cost more, other than the extra initial 10 ppm and perhaps a little extra chlorine usage.
The tablets can be re-ordered from Jack's and are about 10 cents each. I order 50 at a time. The test sequestrant I ordered came in a large bottle and will last a long time, it was expensive but I cannot remember the price. They also sell a smaller bottle.
2. Keep the chlorine at half-way of the recommended point, if the "Pool Calculator" says 4-6 go for 5, as you now have a fair amount of phosphate in the pool. Do not go higher on the chlorine for the first month, or two, as this too can cause staining.
3. I find that backwashing twice a month say around the 15th of the month and the end of the month also helps iron stains to stay out of the pool. If I leave it for a whole month I will see stains re-appearing, especially on my long steps where I have two jets. Not sure why this is as the pressure on the sand filter has not risen by that much, but it does occur. When backwashing my filter states 2-3 minutes I normally only do it for 2 minutes, as I am doing this twice a month. Re-circulating time is recommended at 30-45 seconds, I do it for 30 seconds.
When backwashing you might see some fine white crystals, according to Jack this is iron combining with some of the sequestrant. I think however that most of the iron stays sequestered in the pool water and little is actually backwashed out.
4. I also put in 5 oz per 10,000 gallons of the "Magenta Stuff" per week, which is fine for both non-saltwater and saltwater pools. This too seems to help, again not sure why. Unlike the "Blue Stuff" it does not contain Phosphates.
5. If you have a pool cleaner with a filter or trap, cleaning it every two days also helps. This is only needed if you have a fair amount of plant debris falling into the pool as plant material also contains iron. I use "Pool Socks" on both my trap and skimmer basket. To keep most of it out of the sand filter.
6. It is also very important to keep your pH between 7.4 and 7.2 , I find 7.3 works well and leaves me a small reserve of 0.1 but then my pH fluctuates very little over the day as the pool is covered during the hours of darkness. Each morning the automatic acid feeder adds about 3 oz of acid in a 10,000 gallon pool. If you pH goes above 7.4 regardless of how much Jack's Magic stuff you have in the pool it will precipitate iron and stain the pool.
7. If your alkalinity is higher than recommended by the "Pool Calculator" then staining might also occur and you pH might bounce around too much.
8. Do not worry about Phosphates creating algae, mine currently measure 18,000 + and the pool looks great. This only works if you maintain the correct chlorine ppm level, as often mentioned by the experts on this forum. Needless to say you need to make sure your chlorine is maintained at the correct level daily by checking daily.
9. If your fill water has iron in it and you have drained the pool you might want to use a new and not used feed adjustable garden pesticide garden hose sprayer to fill your pool, adjusting the dosage accordingly and filling the pesticide sprayer with the "Blue" or "Pink" sequestrant so it mixes properly, adding perhaps a small amount of acid to the pool, every so often, as it fills (obviously not directly to the plaster and only perhaps when it becomes 1/8th filled with water) depending on your fill water's ph. Sloshing it around the pool with a pool pole and brush. This might avoid the problem of the iron bound fill water immediately staining the plaster. Our fill water fortunately contains no measurable iron.
Note: I would not ever add muriatic acid to a garden pesticide hose feeder as water may drip back into the plastic bottle and cause it to explode and possibly cause serious injury not limited to total blindness.
Doing the above has kept my pool virtually stain free for an extended period, for the first time in many years, actually ever. I am nearly sure, but not postive, that eventually, I will still have to do an AA iron treatment. The time between them however might be greatly extended from 6 months to possibly as long as 2 or 3 years, if I am right and that of course is a big maybe.
I live in "Iron Central" where iron laden volcanic dust blows in daily from the mountain I live on by trade winds normally at 16-24 mph and quite often ar 25-45 mph or more, the advice given then is well tested.
Hope this helps and good luck.
Re: I failed to add a sequestering agent and my stains have
What kind of stain is it, iron or copper? If it is an iron stain, the blue won't do you much good. You will need the Pink Stuff for iron and Jack's recommends the Blue for copper.
RJD422 said:Thanks, I added Jack's Magic Blue Stuff today. Fingers crossed.
What kind of stain is it, iron or copper? If it is an iron stain, the blue won't do you much good. You will need the Pink Stuff for iron and Jack's recommends the Blue for copper.
Re: I failed to add a sequestering agent and my stains have
RJD422,
It appears Kizerman is correct.
As my pool is saltwater I use "The Purple Stuff".
I went to the Jack's website a few minutes ago and they write the following for the "Blue Stuff":
"What is the difference between The Blue Stuff and The Pink Stuff?
While both products can be used to help remove any kind of metal, The Blue Stuff is more aggressive with copper stains and scale and The Pink Stuff is more aggressive with iron stains and scale. If you have any questions as to which product to use, please call our technicians at 800-348-1656."
If however your pool is vinyl then "The Vinyl Blue Stuff" maybe more appropriate. Here is what they wrote:
"The Vinyl Liner Blue Stuff has been developed to meet the specific needs of vinyl liner pools, including those with heaters. The Vinyl Liner Blue Stuff helps prevent metal stains (including copper) and scaling in new vinyl pools. This product also helps to remove metal stains and scale in older vinyl pools."
So while it did not hurt to add the "Blue Stuff" and would sequester the metals it might be a good idea in future, as Kizerman wrote, to top up in the correct color sequestrant to help to lift the stain. Mixing the two will not be a problem I think, but call Jack's tech support to check for sure.
It seems that you did have iron as the AA treatment worked for you, but then again testing will identify for sure, or you could have both.
My apologies, not having a non-SWG pool, I thought the Blue Stuff was fine for iron. I was wrong.
RJD422,
It appears Kizerman is correct.
As my pool is saltwater I use "The Purple Stuff".
I went to the Jack's website a few minutes ago and they write the following for the "Blue Stuff":
"What is the difference between The Blue Stuff and The Pink Stuff?
While both products can be used to help remove any kind of metal, The Blue Stuff is more aggressive with copper stains and scale and The Pink Stuff is more aggressive with iron stains and scale. If you have any questions as to which product to use, please call our technicians at 800-348-1656."
If however your pool is vinyl then "The Vinyl Blue Stuff" maybe more appropriate. Here is what they wrote:
"The Vinyl Liner Blue Stuff has been developed to meet the specific needs of vinyl liner pools, including those with heaters. The Vinyl Liner Blue Stuff helps prevent metal stains (including copper) and scaling in new vinyl pools. This product also helps to remove metal stains and scale in older vinyl pools."
So while it did not hurt to add the "Blue Stuff" and would sequester the metals it might be a good idea in future, as Kizerman wrote, to top up in the correct color sequestrant to help to lift the stain. Mixing the two will not be a problem I think, but call Jack's tech support to check for sure.
It seems that you did have iron as the AA treatment worked for you, but then again testing will identify for sure, or you could have both.
My apologies, not having a non-SWG pool, I thought the Blue Stuff was fine for iron. I was wrong.
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