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Thread: Nature 2 device and water chemistry

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    Nature 2 device and water chemistry

    I have just started using the BBB method for keeping more pool water in good shape and was wondering if I should/could reduce my chlorine levels based to take into account the effects of the nature 2 device? Prior to using the BBB method I used the chlorine pucks and per the nature 2 instructions kept my chlorine risidual level between .5 and 2 had had no real problems with water chemistry. Now with the BBB method I am keeping the chlorine between 4 and 6 with a cya between 40 and 50.

    appreciate any suggestions

    Thanks....Joe
    pool was built in 5/11, in ground 37,000 gallon concrete/plaster pebble sheen finish. STA-RITE system 3 Cartridge filter 400sqft filtration area, .288 gpm/sqft, 115 gpm flow rate. also has a Nature 2 mineral sanitizer and a 1hp sta-rite pump

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    coffeegoddss's Avatar
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    Re: Nature 2 device and water chemistry

    From what I've read/asked/seen, the Nature 2 does nothing but add metals to your water. I won't be replacing the cartridge in it after this year. Last year, it gave us nothing but problems and I'm guessing that the "recommended reduced" chlorine levels played a big part. Your water chemistry might be fine now - but it'll get out of whack eventually. We do still have it hooked up, though - the zpacks come in handy during vacations!
    AG, 10,400 gallons, filter cartridge, 2HP pump
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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Nature 2 device and water chemistry

    I'd suggest you disconnect or turn off the Nature² and stick with the BBB method. Trying to run a lower FC is asking for trouble and using the Nature² is asking for staining and green hair.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    Re: Nature 2 device and water chemistry

    I also had issues from running that nature2,
    Nothing gets you in hot water faster than the wife's hair turning green
    I opened the cartridge up at the end of last season and it had what looked like copper balls in it. So it seems like it adds at least copper to the water and who knows what else?
    18' x 33' Aqua leader AGP (~19k gal) w/hayward swimpro voyager cartridge filter and 2hp hayward pump.
    8 Gal LQ, hayward heater.

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    Re: Nature 2 device and water chemistry

    Don't ever add anything that isn't needed
    Aaron
    [ Vogue Vectra 24' AG | Hard plumb: Hayward Power-Flo Matrix 1HP 2-speed, 27" sand filter & Pentair MiniMax 100 NG | Taylor K-2006 | Central IL ]
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    Re: Nature 2 device and water chemistry

    Why did you go away from the Nature2? Were you having any problems? How many years did you run Nature2? My pool builder put it in, and he maintains several pools with Nature2, but in Minnesota the pool water is drained down for winterization and maybe he is getting by with pucks and Nature2. It is installed in my pool, but the cartridge is still in the garage.
    20x44 IG vinyl. Intelliflo, Pentair Cartridge Filter (420ft^2), Raypac 336K, Kreepy Krauly

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Nature 2 device and water chemistry

    Quote Originally Posted by jmhjgh
    but in Minnesota the pool water is drained down for winterization and maybe he is getting by with pucks and Nature2.
    Copper is not needed...even up here in Minnesota.

    True, our friends to the south that do not have the fortune of winterizing , generally have more problems with high concentrations of copper, cya, etc. With that said, there are many instances of the these same problems up here...especially in the dog days of August when concentrations have crept up. Bottom line, there is no need for copper additions to pool water, especially when the pool is properly chlorinated.

    Bottom line on the Nature2, why pay for something you don't need, that adds stuff that may cause green hair and staining?
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Nature 2 device and water chemistry

    Same thing you could be said about adding borates: why add if you don't need it? I am not trying to stir the pot because I have no direct experience with Nature2 but people claim the same great feeling and sparkling water with <2ppm chlorine when using Nature2. I didn't add it because I didn't want the possible problems with metals, but my pool builder uses it and maintains several pools.
    20x44 IG vinyl. Intelliflo, Pentair Cartridge Filter (420ft^2), Raypac 336K, Kreepy Krauly

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Nature 2 device and water chemistry

    The two situations are very different. With Nature2 you run some risk of unsightly and difficult to remove stains. With borates the worst that can happen is that you spent a little money and it doesn't improve anything.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Nature 2 device and water chemistry

    Good point. The OP has plaster and the metals and possible staining would also be a bigger deal for that pool cs. those with vinyl liners.
    20x44 IG vinyl. Intelliflo, Pentair Cartridge Filter (420ft^2), Raypac 336K, Kreepy Krauly

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    Re: Nature 2 device and water chemistry

    If you really wanted to operate at a lower FC level and didn't want the side effects of metal staining of plaster surfaces of turning hair greenish (and didn't want to very carefully monitor metal levels and pH to avoid such problems), you could use Polyquat 60 every week in a maintenance dose. However, that's extra cost and not necessary unless you really, really want that lower FC level. Remember that with CYA in the water, the active chlorine level is very low with the minimum for non-SWG pools having the same active chlorine as around 0.07 ppm FC with no CYA. The experience is nothing at all like many commercial/public pools (especially those indoors) that don't use any CYA at all and have at least 10 times or more active chlorine.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    BoDarville's Avatar
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    Re: Nature 2 device and water chemistry

    NOTE: This is in response to a post that was subsequently removed. It extolled the claimed benefits of Nature2 while ignoring the potential risks. My response below challenged several of the assertions in that post.

    Quote Originally Posted by JARBS
    The way the N2 system works is that it introduces copper & silver ions into the water.
    This will eventually lead to metal staining and/or green hair as others have stated. The latter is erroneously blamed on chlorine. Once the metal stains develop, then you must go through extra steps (and expense) of removing them.

    Quote Originally Posted by JARBS
    Next install the N2 system super chlorinate with calcium hypochlorite.
    Super chlorinating with cal-hypo will potentially add scaling to the mix of issues the pool owner will have to deal with, again causing extra time and expense to remove.

    Now, on a seasonal pool that is winterized, it may take longer for these problems to develop. But they eventually will.

    Chlorine is often mistakenly blamed for a variety of issues such as the green hair mentioned above and faded bathing suits. Much of the fading of swimwear is likely happening in the washer than in a properly chlorinated pool. However, if someone is bent on running at a lower chlorine level, they would be better off using a supplemental dose of Polyquat 60 as chem geek stated. At least that approach doesn't have the side effects of the metal in Nature 2 and other algaecides. However even this approach is not considered best-practice because it is more expensive than simply maintaining proper chlorination. Chlorine by itself will keep the pool sanitary without the use of anything else, so I do not understand why anyone would go through the extra expense of adding unnecessary chemicals/devices that will not provide any upside potential.

    Quote Originally Posted by chem geek
    Remember that with CYA in the water, the active chlorine level is very low with the minimum for non-SWG pools having the same active chlorine as around 0.07 ppm FC with no CYA.
    This is a key point, especially to those who are "chlorine-phobic." To put this in perspective, 1 cup of 8.25% bleach in a 40 gallon washing machine = FC of ~133 ppm and there is no CYA in the washer.

    Since switching to BBB two years ago, I spend less time maintaining the pool, fewer $ on electricity by running the pump less, and my swim suits and goggles are lasting much longer. The calcium ring that I inherited from the previous owner is gone. My pool has never looked better.

    Given all these risks and reading/hearing about the experience that others have had with N2 and the potential side-effects that are likely to develop, I'm not seeing how this will reduce pool maintenance.
    Gold Supporter, TFP Lifetime Supporter, 26,680 gal Plaster IGP 3.5 - 10' depth / Attached Waterfall Spa, Manually Chlorinated, Triton Sand Filter, 1.5 HP * 1.1 SF = 1.65 SFHP 1-speed Pentair WhisperFlo WF-26 Pump, 400K BTU NG Teledyne Laars Series One Heater, Polaris 360, Test Kit Comparison, Chlorine/CYA Chart, SLAMing Your Pool, OCLT
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