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Thread: Combined Clorine (CC) & Water Temperature Staying Too High

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    Combined Clorine (CC) & Water Temperature Staying Too High

    I've owned a used pool and jacuzzi for about nine months now. They were installed in 2009 I believe. I just started maintaining them myself with the BBB

    method about three months ago. The pool has been quite easy even in dealing with algae and pump motor problems but, the jacuzzi has been quite a pain in the

    rear. The company that sold the pool and jacuzzi to the previous owner is scum and I want to do whatever repairs my self if at all possible! Where can I

    get a service manual for a Caldera Spas Martinique??? I have looked everywhere on this site and cannot find the solution anywhere.

    The current jacuzzis info:

    Caldera Spas Paradise Series Martinique
    320gal.
    OEM Ozonator
    pH - 7.4
    TA - 40
    CH - 250
    BR - 7
    CC - 0.4 (after about a 30min soak last night, first soak in several days)

    I've got two problems with the jacuzzi:

    1. The CC just keeps coming back (usually around 0.2 or 0.4 but as high as 1.0) and for no good reason. Even after shocking withbleach (10x the CC, and

    sometimes much more) and/or MPS (1 or 2oz.). I have even seen it come back after NO bather load. All the while the chemicals are in spec. Also, I'm not sure

    if this is related (I hope it's not!) but, I have been noticing quite a dark even black looking line on the tub at the waterline. It even felt almost

    rubbery. I have drained the tub thinking I didn't startup right to no avail.

    2. The temperature on the jacuzzi is behaving erratically. It started a week or two before the CC issue I believe. The actual temp was always off a degree or two from the temp setting but, a couple of months ago the temp was often getting up around 106 to 108 degrees for no apparent reason. I was trying to find a service manual (Where can I get a service manual, Please Help???) and could only find one thermostat on the internet that I thought might resolve the issue but, all of a sudden the high temp problem went away and the temp was spot on more accurate than before. Well, two weeks later the temp issue is back and worse than before at 109 degrees.

    Anyone know what is going on here???
    TEST KIT: Taylor Technologies K-2006C

    POOL: 33,000 gal 20'x40' IGP, Vinyl, 1.5 HP Two Stage Pump Motor, 340 sq.ft. Jandy CL340 Cartridge Filter, Jandy Aqua Pure PLC1400 SWG, Polaris 280, AquaLink RS By Jandy Control Center with Jandy PDA Model #8265

    JACUZZI: 320 gal Caldera Spa Paradise Series Martinique with OEM Aqua Sun Zone - XL-30AE Ozonator

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    Lershac's Avatar
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    Re: Combined Clorine (CC) & Water Temperature Staying Too Hi

    Sounds like you have something organic in the piping somewhere for the CC to keep coming back with a zero bather load. The chlorine just keeps trying to oxidize it. If you can I would tear it apart and replace/clean as much of the piping as I could. No help from me on the manual, sorry. Have you called or written the manufacturer?
    (DIY):16K Gal 20X30 rectangular IG Gunite, w/spa, CCP 520 filter,2 Pentair VS pumps, 400KBTU Pentair gas heater, Heat Pump for cooling, **update5.25.2013** added an intellichem with acid pump that will control existing SWG. My Build Thread Here

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    Join Date
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    Re: Combined Clorine (CC) & Water Temperature Staying Too Hi

    In particular, use Spa System Flush which should help to remove any biofilms and then superchlorinate the water as described in this post. You should only have to do this combination of procedures once. Thereafter, a properly maintained spa shouldn't run into these problems again.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: Combined Clorine (CC) & Water Temperature Staying Too Hi

    Quote Originally Posted by chem geek
    In particular, use Spa System Flush which should help to remove any biofilms and then superchlorinate the water as described in this post. You should only have to do this combination of procedures once. Thereafter, a properly maintained spa shouldn't run into these problems again.
    Since he is using Bromine - can he keep the existing water and do this or does he need to dump an refill before using the 100ppm chlorine?
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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    Re: Combined Clorine (CC) & Water Temperature Staying Too Hi

    The Spa System Flush will work either way, but since he's been using bromine, the super-chlorination procedure should be no more than 50 ppm instead of the 100 ppm described in the procedure. This presumes that some of the chlorine will become bromine instead and not be affected as much by the higher pH (if bleach is used to super-chlorinate). Thanks for catching that.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: Combined Clorine (CC) & Water Temperature Staying Too Hi

    I have used "Spa Purge" once or twice not too long after we got the jacuzzi. It uses natural enzymes I believe. Will this work? I was worried about the black line at the waters edge since I had not seen that before and it seemed to appear at the same time this problem did. I also forgot to mention that while learning how to startup the jacuzzi on my own that the pH dropped below 7 a few times or more and I was wondering if the acidity of the water could have been breaking down some type of rubber in the plumbing somewhere (is there rubber in the plumbing?)

    About CC (Combined Chlorine), do we need to stay out of the water if it is above a certain level?

    Do I need to post the temperature problem separately? I thought they might be related since they seemed to happen at about the same time.

    Lershac: In my past experiences I really don't think the manufacturer is going to do anything but insist that I contact the company that sells their product. I'm also afraid that they might contact said company and unintentionally make things worse for me when I have no other option but to do business with this company.

    What can I do to find a service manual for this product? Usually someone in boards like this has a copy. Can someone private message me if they have any info on a service manual for a Caldera Spa Paradise Series Martinique?

    Thank you guys for your prompt insightfulness!
    TEST KIT: Taylor Technologies K-2006C

    POOL: 33,000 gal 20'x40' IGP, Vinyl, 1.5 HP Two Stage Pump Motor, 340 sq.ft. Jandy CL340 Cartridge Filter, Jandy Aqua Pure PLC1400 SWG, Polaris 280, AquaLink RS By Jandy Control Center with Jandy PDA Model #8265

    JACUZZI: 320 gal Caldera Spa Paradise Series Martinique with OEM Aqua Sun Zone - XL-30AE Ozonator

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    Re: Combined Clorine (CC) & Water Temperature Staying Too Hi

    As described in this thread, Spa System Flush appears to work better than Spa Purge.

    If you measure more than 0.5 ppm CC, and especially if you smell a bad chlorine smell (not like bleach, but like "bad pool smell") then I'd stay out of the tub. However, if you have a bromine tub, then you can't measure CC (at least not accurately) -- the FC tests measures Total Bromine in that case and combined bromine (bromamine) is still an effective disinfectant. So for a bromine tub, you go more on smell than on measurements (unfortunately). So ignore your CC reading when using bromine.

    Someone else can help you with the temperature problem. If you don't get a response soon, you can post a separate thread to get someone's attention.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: Combined Clorine (CC) & Water Temperature Staying Too Hi

    I know my temps can start to go up when the filters need to be cleaned. I guess there is a point when the flow is restricted enough to cause this but not so low it trips the flow sensor. This makes sense in light of your waterline scunge, it's probably in the filters too.
    Blaine

    50' x 22' 27k gal shotcrete freeform, 2hp 2 sp Pentair Whisperflo, Pool Pilot RC-52 SWCG, Pentair TR 100 sand filter, Polaris 280, 2 Pentair Intellibrite LED lights with controller, french gray plaster, Butterfield U-20 "smoke"integral colored salt finish concrete cantilever deck on one side, flagstone coping on the other.

    My pool build:
    osage-hills-pool-build-t50526.html

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    Re: Combined Clorine (CC) & Water Temperature Staying Too Hi

    Quote Originally Posted by chem geek
    As described in this thread, Spa System Flush appears to work better than Spa Purge...
    chem geek, which "Spa System Flush" is everyone referring to? I'm not sure if they're all the same, but the pictures are different containers, and the company names are different:

    SeaKlear Spa System Flush:


    Spa Naturally Spa System Flush:


    (Unknown brand) Spa System Flush - same bottle shape as above:


    I need to order a bottle to flush out our new (to us) hot tub. Thanks!

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    Re: Combined Clorine (CC) & Water Temperature Staying Too Hi

    The first and third are the same since the original Spa System Flush (the third photo) was bought by Natural Chemistry (the first photo) so either one is OK. The second photo is from Creative Water Solutions (Spa Naturally) and is different so do not get that one (it might work, but we don't know).
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    BravoRomeo's Avatar
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    Re: Combined Clorine (CC) & Water Temperature Staying Too Hi

    I can back up the experience with Spa System Flush vs Spa Purge in trying to decontaminate a used 2001 HS Jetsetter.

    Spa Purge came from a Clearwater dealer... didn't seem effective as CD was still in the 30%+ range, CC at .5, even days after a fresh fill and no bather load. I occasionally would get an itchy, irritated feeling on certain areas of my skin after using the tub, and that would last for days, making me think there was still something in the water.

    Upon arrival of a new cover and set of Tri-X filters, I decided to this time try SeaKlear Spa System Flush (local Hot Spring dealer carries it) before a fresh water change. Yikes! Out of the jets soon erupted an icky brown-flaked foam. Let it sit overnight, drained, scrubbed, filled, super-chlorinated, drained, and fresh fill. CD is now consistently at 20% per day with no bather load, and CC at 0. Most importantly, no more mysterious skin irritation!

    I'm quite curious how Spa System Flush works. If anything, it smells and looks like Windex! Obviously, it isn't.

    Cheers!
    Spa: 2001 Hot Spring Jetsetter, 215 gallon Dichlor/Chlorine
    When I'm not soaking, I just might be flying!

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    Re: Combined Clorine (CC) & Water Temperature Staying Too Hi

    They are just powerful surfactants designed to break up biofilms and greases that otherwise stick to piping and spa surfaces. They are "wetting agents" that make normally insoluble molecules (or chunks) become more soluble in water. Think "soap on steroids". The Windex smell is probably from an alcohol carrier, not from the surfactant itself. Alcohols allow for organic surfactants (which by themselves would be solids) to be concentrated in a liquid while not causing problems when added to spa water. Some Windex products also have ammonia.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    BravoRomeo's Avatar
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    Re: Combined Clorine (CC) & Water Temperature Staying Too Hi

    Quote Originally Posted by chem geek
    They are just powerful surfactants designed to break up biofilms and greases that otherwise stick to piping and spa surfaces. They are "wetting agents" that make normally insoluble molecules (or chunks) become more soluble in water. Think "soap on steroids". The Windex smell is probably from an alcohol carrier, not from the surfactant itself. Alcohols allow for organic surfactants (which by themselves would be solids) to be concentrated in a liquid while not causing problems when added to spa water. Some Windex products also have ammonia.
    Fascinating... at first when I saw all the brown flakes and goop build up in a foam layer on the surface, I was thinking it was some chemical trick. Just to see, I tried adding a splash of System Flush to a glass of tap water and agitating. No mysterious brown foam.

    A second dosing of of the product to my tub released no additional gunk.

    So, it does seem to do something, and the results afterwards are very encouraging.

    OK, here's a photo! Ewwwww! That after just 20 minutes of running the jets with the recommended dosage.
    Spa: 2001 Hot Spring Jetsetter, 215 gallon Dichlor/Chlorine
    When I'm not soaking, I just might be flying!

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    Re: Combined Clorine (CC) & Water Temperature Staying Too Hi

    Great! Thanks for the clarification and the additional pics.

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    BravoRomeo's Avatar
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    Re: Combined Clorine (CC) & Water Temperature Staying Too Hi

    By the way, the scum lime wiped off with a bit of the Spa System Flush concentrate on a big car washing sponge. I'm sure a microfiber towel or a Magic Eraser would work as well. It would probably be a pain if it were left to dry that way... really gooey stuff. And to think, that was all hiding in the plumbing!

    As well, be sure to check for grime under any valve trim, pillows, etc. I used a nylon scrub brush to clean around the air valves after removing the handles and trim bezels.
    Spa: 2001 Hot Spring Jetsetter, 215 gallon Dichlor/Chlorine
    When I'm not soaking, I just might be flying!

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