Light Brown/tan Spots/streaks

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Thanks All - I will let the FC come down to 10 as JasonLion suggests.
Once that happens and I get my PH up (by adding soda ash ?) then what next ? Shock to mustard algae levels ?

As OnBalance suggests this could be organic from underneath then shocking wuldn't help I suppose.

OnBalance - would some experiment as Swampwoman suggests make any sense ?
 
I am glad Swampwoman asked those questions. Yes, adding iron sulfate around the perimeter and soaking it in behind the liner could create potential problems. So if removing the liner, it would be best to use liquid chlorine bleach to sterilizing the soil. Spray entire pool bowl area several times and saturated it.

I extremely doubt that Borates would not have enough killing power to properly correct this problem. And the potential problem of pouring bleach around behind the liner could bleach the liner and damage it also.
 
^I suppose that would depend on what was growing behind the vinyl, and how permeable the liner was. I don't know, it might actually be worth a shot. I'd love to hear what our resident chemist thinks about the idea.

For example, at 50 ppm, which is what we use in the pool, boron is theoretically fatal to single cell orgs such as algae. In wood, as a fungicide/mold treatment and inhibitor, it is more like 200 ppm. Basic control for agricultural use is 100 ppm I think, but some soil microorganisms cannot tolerate more than 27 ppm.

(For those wondering, yes, this is the same boron that farmers add to your apples and is regularly added to control fungus on crops; that some HUMANS take internally in SMALL doses to treat arthritis and/or yeast infections; that we actually need as a component for normal health (in SMALL) doses and that we ALSO use to kill insects such as ants.)
-- In other words, the substance needs to be applied in the RIGHT amount for positive outcomes ;)

(Also worth noting, the reason, I suspect, that pool gurus tell us min. 30 ppm borates in pool *might be* due to a phenom I recently read about where a LOW ppm such as 7-10 ppm in experiments has actually PROMOTED certain types fungus growth...because again, boron is also a micro-nutrient!)
 
Latest readings - waiting for FC to come down to at least 10 as JasonLion had suggested:
PH 7.1
FC 12
CC 0
TA 60
CYA 45

Of course still have spots/patches all over bottom of pool. When I get the FC down to 10 what then ? Try to raise the PH ? Go to Mustard Shock levels ? Or are we sure it's from underneath ? What are my options ?
 
I believe Jason suggested once your FC was below ten to take a truer ph reading and then get that up in range (yes, that would be the washing soda).
Once you're balanced, then it's time to revisit the stains.
Posting pictures would help, I think.

If you suspect it's due to under-the-liner growth of some kind, I suppose you'd need to discuss that with a pool co. -- I've now read that some will inject chlorine behind the vinyl and patch, but have never undertaken this. From what I understand if that situation persists, most will advise you to get a new liner and spray the soil with chlorine.

But before going to such extremes, you should try the vitamin c test to absolutely confirm whether or not the stains respond to ascorbic acid. If they do, then you'd be better off $$$ to begin an ascorbic acid treatment (info in pool school) once you had a solid handle of balancing your pool water.

So first, get your water balanced, do the vitamin c test, and post some pictures if you can. You might also want to check in with your vinyl mfg, with pics, and see what they suggest (after you do the foregoing.)
 
I have already did the vitamin C test and it didn't work (did not lighten the patch).

I guess my question is at what point in trying to get rid of something organic do I say it's not working and it must be from underneath ? For example, my FC has been shock level or above for at leat 1 1/2 weeks and the spots haven't changed. Is this long enough to say that method will not work ?

Interesting point I never mentioned - in the morning the spots either really lighten up and sometimes almost go away - but as the day goes on they come back in full bloom.
 
Sorry - I'd forgotten that you had already tried the vitamin c test ;)

Once you balance your water so that it's not quite so acidic, and you're certain you maintained shock level for your cya level for that long, I guess it might be time to look into what onBalance is talking about. The time of day thing is especially odd.

Without pictures, we're all flying blind. If you know the original pool builder or have a pool equipment company you like, maybe you should invite them out and see what they make of it. Please let us know for posterity ;)
 
Help !! I really messed things up. I lowered my FC to 9 to get a true PH reading which was 6.9.
I then added soda ash (about 4 lbs) in the evening and then another 3.5 in the morning. In the evening my PH was high - 8.2 + but I figured as always in the past it never lasted and would come right back down. Since my PH was up I was ready to super shock for my original brown patches problem which got worse. I added bleach (1024 ounces) to get to mustard shock level.
This morning I have a worse problem - the bottom of the pool is covered with a greyish white/light tan coat. The stairs and ladder are this greyish color. I cant's brush it off the bottom of the pool or from the stairs. On the ladder stairs I can scrub it off a little. What happened ? What is it ? Did I put too much Borax/soda ash ? Is my high PH the cause ? How can I get rid of it ?
 

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The whole pool is turning grey !
Help !! I really messed things up. I lowered my FC to 9 to get a true PH reading which was 6.9.
I then added soda ash (about 4 lbs) in the evening and then another 3.5 in the morning. In the evening my PH was high - 8.2 + but I figured as always in the past it never lasted and would come right back down. Since my PH was up I was ready to super shock for my original brown patches problem which got worse. I added bleach (1024 ounces) to get to mustard shock level.
This morning I have a worse problem - the bottom of the pool is covered with a greyish white/light tan coat. The stairs and ladder are this greyish color. I cant's brush it off the bottom of the pool or from the stairs. On the ladder stairs I can scrub it off a little. What happened ? What is it ? Did I put too much Borax/soda ash ? Is my high PH the cause ? How can I get rid of it ?

MY levels are:

PH 8.2 +
FC 33
CC 0
TA 85
CYA 30 (can CYA go down ? )
 
Please help - you should see my pool !!! It's so grey on the bottom and sides the whole pool (water) looks like it's smoke filled !! I can't see the bottom in the deep end. I'm sick to my stomach over it. What did I do ?? Please see above and help.
 
By over adjusting the pH and then adding the bleach, which raised the pH even more, you. Most likely caused scaling. Lowering the pH to about 7 and keeping it there may slowly dissolve it. Adding a calcium sequestrant may help keep it from scaling once you get it dissolved.
 
I say my PH is 8.2 + because I can't really tell what it is over 8.2. Being conservative say it's 8.3 and I want to get to 7 the pool calculator says I should add 93 oz of muriatic acid - should that be my next step ? (I'm afaraid now).
 
Okay, so when you added the soda ash, did you use the pool calcuator? If so, maybe your gallon figure is incorrect? As I'm guessing you can gather, it's a moving target if things keep being out of balance, so it's hard to know how to help. So the first thing is to be certain you're using the right gallon measurement and confirm sae with the behavior of your chemical additions to preven further unexpected events.

Presumably, you read the 8.2 before you added bleach. So maybe add 75% of what pool Calc says to bring it down, just in case gallons are wrong. Let chlorine fall and confirm ph range.

Once you get the ph down (NOT lower than 7!) and it's had a chance to filter, please post a picture so we can see what's going on, or get a service guy out to see whats going on. Sometimes high ph and chlorine bring things out of solution as Bama said. It should also be noted that when algae dies, it also can turn white/grayish.

The reactions can give you clues to the problem, if only by elimination.
If you can get you ph in range, let everything settle, and then post back results we might have somewhere to start.
 
OK - recent scaling problem solved. I added muriatic acid and all cleared up ! My water is clear and levels are:
PH 7.4
FC 13.5
CC 0
TA 70
CYA 50
My Brown patches are still there but at least I'm back.

I tried to send picture to myself to select small size but I didn't have that option - I am using Gmail. My picture is 3mb - anyone have any idea how I can reduce size so I can post ?
 
If you have a Facebook account you can upload it, which will reduce the size, (it will prompt you) then save it back down to your desktop by right-clcking and then renaming the file "small" or something. (obviously, if you have photo editing software that's the best option, but it sounds like you don't.)
 
Hi All - it is a year later and I still have the same problem. I am afraid OnBalance is correct - the stain is coming from underneath the vinyl liner. I am planning to replace the liner and treat underneath.

Question to anyone experienced in vinyl liner replacements - I have read online through many searches to put a polyethylene sheet down covering the floor and walls first, then the new liner. This is supposed to prvent any future organisms from coming through. Has anyone ever heard this and have any experience with it ?
 
Yes, if you'd had behind-the-vinyl staining, you'd want to treat the soil with chlorine, treat surrounding area with fungicide and also consider an extra polyethylene barrier, as I understand it. However, before you go getting a new liner, can you post a picture of the stains so we can take a look see?

Also, if you do have something growing under the liner now, hate to say it, but it is highly likely you will eventually have something growing under the next liner too if the water table get high enough and there are things in the soil/runoff/groundwater prompting this growth. It's just that NEW vinyl is treated with biocides, but they eventually wear off. So if your liner isn't actually that old, you may instead just want them to treat behind the liner -- some places suggest treating with copper iron sulphate sprinkled on the soil around the pool perimeter and watered in. That changes the ph to make that area inhabitable to the microorganisms ;) But apparently you have to take care with it, and obviously don't want the copper IN the pool!!!!
 

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