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Thread: Filter necessary?

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    Filter necessary?

    I have what is probably a really stupid question but i need to ask it. I am just setting up my pool on a deck. My husband is concerned about the weight as am I but he won't allow me to install it on the grass so this is my only option. I have set it up and have it 70% filled but it has about another 2 inches to go before it will be over the pump minimum. My question is can i put less water in the pool and not use the pump? If i am willing to check the pool morning and night for chlorine and ph would that work? So far i have had it set up for 2 days and nights and the water is crystal clear. All i have been doing is adding 17 oz of liquid bleach to it. I really want to keep this pool but am afraid of the weight and i surely don't want to have it collapse while we are in it. Even though is a pool forum does anyone know if the deck cannot handle the weight would I know it right away or could it take time to collapse. The deck is close to the ground but not on the ground. Anyway those are my stupid questions. Note that my husband is an engineer and he works with water treatment so he is pretty knowledgeable when it comes to water treatment but not to pools and he feels the filter is not necessary due to the small amount of water. Thank you for all your help.
    Bboran
    2000gallon intex ag, 530gph cartridge filter,

  2. Back To Top    #2
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Filter necessary?

    How big is the pool? Water is 8.3 lbs per gallon and it quickly adds up.

    You need circulation in the pool to mix the chemicals you are adding. That is easiest done with a pump and filter system.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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  3. Back To Top    #3
    techguy's Avatar
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    Re: Filter necessary?

    Is this a concrete deck or a wood deck?

    It sounds like a low wood deck. Unless the deck were designed to accommodate the load or water. An 8 foot round, three foot deep EasySet pool (with the air ring at the top) has about 1,100 gallons of water, this is about 9,100 pounds of pressure on the deck.

    I wanted to get a good comparison... So, would you park a Dodge Ram 2500 pickup truck on that deck? They weigh 8,800 pounds. The pool weighs more and it does not include the weight of your family in the pool.
    -- Guy --
    10K gallons in 21' Round 52 inch wall Aqualeader AG, Hayward Power Flow LX 1.5 HP pump motor, Hayward Perflex EC50AC DE filter w/Cellulose, Wide mouth skimmer, 2013 new Diver Dan (craigslist) to replace the faded old Hayward AquaBug. TF-100

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Filter necessary?

    The filter is completely necessary. There is no way to clean the water without it. You can keep it sanitized for a few days without one but long term you're going to have to have a filter.

    I would be very scared about your deck holding the pool. Of course, it all depends on the deck construction and the size of the pool.

    I cannot give you a definite answer as to whether the deck will hold the pool but if you'll post pics of the deck and give us the size of the pool I can give you my scared factor by looking at it.

    A pool with 4' deep water will exert 250 lbs per square foot of surface area. Most decks aren't designed to hold nearly 250 lbs per sqft.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    frogabog's Avatar
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    Re: Filter necessary?

    Water treatment and pools are two very different beasts. I also have a waterworks professional as a husband. A pump expert actually who represented one of the first salt water treatment systems for waterworks (drinking water). He knows his stuff... He was the pool boy for 4 years till I took over, and still... even after 2 seasons of BBB (and a recent acknowledgement that I am indeed Queen of the Pool) still suggests I just dump something in now and again.

    Waterboys are great and often have nifty testing tools they can bring home from work. Yours really should be able to calculate the deck strength, it largely depends on how the deck was built, the number of footers and beams there are, and their size. Call a decking contractor, ask them to calculate maximum weight (talk to an estimator).

    Now, to answer the question... No. Unless you want a dirty pool with floaties and black dirt and bugs in the bottom, and the finer particles suspended in the water with I assume, your children... you need a filter.
    Where kids swim in 54 degree water, turn blue, and giggle happily cuz they got a POOL!
    Year 3 BBB -15' x 48" Intex Metal Frame - Was using (2) 1000gph Intex cartridge filters (see Full time pumping Intex). 2012, converted to 1600gph and sand filter+SWG = Sand filter love affair!
    Don't waste time and energy looking for a better value on test kits, the TF100 is the best deal around. I did the looking and spent the extra money, but you don't have to make the same mistake. Just go here: TFTestkits. I use Pool Calculator for min/max, and shocking chlorine levels.

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Re: Filter necessary?

    Well I will try to send a pic and from all the answers I'm getting one thing is certain that i need the pump and more then just dumping chemicals to have a swimmable pool so thank you. So now i have to decide if the pool should remain on the deck which it sounds like it shouldn't. Looks like I just spent $100 plus for a pool I won't be able to use most likely but better safe then sorry or worse hurt. If I knew that if it collapsed it would just collapse and I would most likely have no pool and no deck but no one would be hurt I'd believe it or not take the risk.
    Bboran
    2000gallon intex ag, 530gph cartridge filter,

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    GreatCanadian's Avatar
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    Re: Filter necessary?

    Why won't your husband "allow" you to set it up on the grass??
    GC
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    frogabog's Avatar
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    Re: Filter necessary?

    Sod is cheap. Enough sod to re-grass a pool area would likely be less than $30, plus a little time to roll it out. Re-seeding can work nicely too. Not really a big deal IMO. But I do know how husbands can be when they decide something isn't ok.
    Where kids swim in 54 degree water, turn blue, and giggle happily cuz they got a POOL!
    Year 3 BBB -15' x 48" Intex Metal Frame - Was using (2) 1000gph Intex cartridge filters (see Full time pumping Intex). 2012, converted to 1600gph and sand filter+SWG = Sand filter love affair!
    Don't waste time and energy looking for a better value on test kits, the TF100 is the best deal around. I did the looking and spent the extra money, but you don't have to make the same mistake. Just go here: TFTestkits. I use Pool Calculator for min/max, and shocking chlorine levels.

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Re: Filter necessary?

    Well I can't seem to figure out how to add the attachment not that i think it will help. He thinks above ground pools are ugly and doesn't want one within view from the street and he doesnt want the grass killed either. He says our site isn't suitable for a pool either so like I said this was my compromise and I was so excited about it but now I'm just scared.
    Bboran
    2000gallon intex ag, 530gph cartridge filter,

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Filter necessary?

    Question for the peanut gallery:
    Are there legalities about having a fence around an above ground pool especially if is it pretty short?

    If your backyard is not fenced in (making it visible from the street), then having a pool may be a big liability.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  11. Back To Top    #11
    cramar's Avatar
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    Re: Filter necessary?

    I recommend you read pool school.

    As for fences, that's a municipal bylaw thing so it varies. My municipality allows no fence if the pool wall is > 48" so long as nothing climbable is near, angled supports for ovals are deemed climbable therefore at a minimum the supports need fencing.
    Then again, as I drive around I see alot of people that didn't get permits for their pools....or decks for that matter, because they violate various bylaws.

    Best bet is to learn the local bylaws and go by those, if anything major ever happens everyone will focus on the building violation.
    20' X 54" Sharkline Matrix Resin AGP, 9400 Gallons, Sta-Rite 1 HP Dynamo Pump, 150 lb Pentair Sand Filter, Gorilla Pad,
    Foam Cove, Taylor K-2006 kit, BBB method, 8'X20' Fafco Sunsaver Hard Plumb, DIY Fountain, Margarittaville Fiji


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    Re: Filter necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    Question for the peanut gallery:
    Are there legalities about having a fence around an above ground pool especially if is it pretty short?

    If your backyard is not fenced in (making it visible from the street), then having a pool may be a big liability.
    Here a ABG must be fenced or provide some other means of preventing access. I believe the height is 3'. So if your pool walls are three feet or more, than a lockable ladder, removable steps, etc will do the job.

    I happen to have both a fenced in yard with a self closing child resistant gate AND a self closing child resistant gate on the deck stair as well - maybe I am a bit of a belt and suspenders kind of guy.

    -dave
    27' Round ABG (17,000 gal) - +/- 11 hours of full sun per day
    Hard plumbed Hayward Perflex EC-40 DE filter w/ 1 HP pump (Got a new one June 2015)
    Filered 4 hours per day (on a timer)
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    frogabog's Avatar
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    Re: Filter necessary?

    You know... you could absolutely fashion a couple of hoses that dip into the pool water to get that filter running at 70% filled. We used a bat weight on the suction side to keep it in the water, and you could either let the return fall like a waterfall into the water or put a hose on it too.

    See the link in my sig (full time pumping intex) for some images of how this could be achieved with a little bit of variation for your specific pool. Bat weight works great btw...
    Where kids swim in 54 degree water, turn blue, and giggle happily cuz they got a POOL!
    Year 3 BBB -15' x 48" Intex Metal Frame - Was using (2) 1000gph Intex cartridge filters (see Full time pumping Intex). 2012, converted to 1600gph and sand filter+SWG = Sand filter love affair!
    Don't waste time and energy looking for a better value on test kits, the TF100 is the best deal around. I did the looking and spent the extra money, but you don't have to make the same mistake. Just go here: TFTestkits. I use Pool Calculator for min/max, and shocking chlorine levels.

  14. Back To Top    #14
    techguy's Avatar
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    Re: Filter necessary?

    I assume the filter is a requirement because I don't want to swim in my waste.

    As to fencing, a good fence will keep the neighbor kids out and your liability down.

    As to pool being ugly, I have seen some really ugly in-ground pools (and pool-less yards). You can "bury" an above ground pool to within a foot of height of the walls for much less than a similarly sized concrete/gunnite pool

    Here is one from the forums here.
    -- Guy --
    10K gallons in 21' Round 52 inch wall Aqualeader AG, Hayward Power Flow LX 1.5 HP pump motor, Hayward Perflex EC50AC DE filter w/Cellulose, Wide mouth skimmer, 2013 new Diver Dan (craigslist) to replace the faded old Hayward AquaBug. TF-100

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Filter necessary?

    You haven't posted your pool size yet, so we have no way of knowing how much weight it is. Next, we need to know something about your deck constriction...size of beams, distance between, span, etc. ...but let's start with the pool size.

    If it is a small pool say 10'X 30" (that is more like 2' water depth)...it might be okay. But as Bama mentioned, most decks will not support a 4 foot deep pool. Those decks that can handle that kind of distributed heavy load, would have significantly more supports, and a much higher price tag to go along with them.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Re: Filter necessary?

    thanks to everyone with your answers and suggestions. I am going to check into the suggestion from frogabog. I'm sorry about the lack of information. I thought it was included with my signature as was suggested but obviously i couldn't figure that out either. The pool is an index easy set pool with an inflational top ring. It is 12x36 and holds approximately 1700 gallons. My husband built the deck and does not skimp on anything. He is very anal and very conscious of safety/almost too much so. Anyway we went ahead and filled it so that we can now use hte filter. The deck seems to be holding it thus far and i have confidence that my husband would not allow me to do this if he had any concerns. He said that he is impressed with the fact that he built a deck that can hold over 10,000 pounds. I am a bit concerned about the safety issues since we have a 3 year old granddaughter so I will be looking into what i can do to make it more secure when she is around which is a lot. She can't get in it on her own unless she climbed on something but she can stand up in it so..... I didn't think about the other legalities since the next door neighbors have the exact same pool but maybe i need to be. That above ground pool that is built into the ground is really cool too. Again thanks to everyone and their suggestions. Its very much appreciated. Now lets see if i can figure out how to keep it clean!!!!!!! )))
    Bboran
    2000gallon intex ag, 530gph cartridge filter,

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Re: Filter necessary?

    Okay so here is our setup so far. Any comments?
    Bboran
    2000gallon intex ag, 530gph cartridge filter,

  18. Back To Top    #18
    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Filter necessary?

    That is a lot of weight (14000 lbs). I think about it this way...that is like having 78 people (180 lbs each) standing in the area your pool occupies. I would not be comfortable with typical residential deck construction and that weight on it.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

  19. Back To Top    #19
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Filter necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by bboran
    It is 12x36 and holds approximately 1700 gallons.
    My scared factor just went down a lot.
    If you figure it has 30" of water in it that puts about 150 lbs per sqft.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  20. Back To Top    #20
    cramar's Avatar
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    Re: Filter necessary?

    ...your husband is impressed that his deck can hold the weight of the pool
    So really, he wasn't sure it could, your experimenting and so far so good right?

    The carrying capacity of the deck can be calculated if you spend some time.
    As it stands you have to admit you don't know what the deck can carry in terms of weight, and just because it's carrying the load today dosn't mean it's going to carry the load tomorrow or the day after.
    20' X 54" Sharkline Matrix Resin AGP, 9400 Gallons, Sta-Rite 1 HP Dynamo Pump, 150 lb Pentair Sand Filter, Gorilla Pad,
    Foam Cove, Taylor K-2006 kit, BBB method, 8'X20' Fafco Sunsaver Hard Plumb, DIY Fountain, Margarittaville Fiji


    My Build: one-man-one-pool-and-one-deck-agp-pics-t37172.html
    My Build 'To-Do' List for other DIY'ers: my-pool-build-list-t40249.html?hilit=list

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