Some gfci questions.

[kyle11]

I know the pump and light needs a gfci breaker but is there anything else? No heater

Does the aqua rite SWG System need one?

I am planning a gazebo or pergola that will be 8 feet from the waters edge, can I use a gfci outlet or does it need to be a breaker?

Also can I just put a 60 amp gfci at the main panel and use regular breakers at the sub panel and still be protected with the pump and light?

Also the aqua rite says it needs to be hooked up to a 120v and it draws 2 amps. Can I hook it to the pool light breaker or one of the outdoor kitchen breakers?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[techguy]

I m not an electrician, but,

You should only have one GFCI device in each electrical circuit.
I believe code requires ALL outdoor outlets and circuits have GFCI protection. My outdoor outlets share the same circuit as my front bathroom.
I don't believe a GFCI a can be used upstream of a group of breakers, I think you need to have a sepearate device for each circuit of outlets.
I would not be $$ foolish to skimp of GFCI, I think it's a pretty inexpensive addition and can save a life.
Multiple GFCI devices in the same circuit can cause safety issues, at least this is my understanding.

As for your other questions and plans, I think you should at least have a licensed electrician review them, even if you do the installation yourself.

I know I am not answering all of these questions with definitive answers but I am hoping to start/facilitate conversation about them.

 

[mpippins]

Also can I just put a 60 amp gfci at the main panel and use regular breakers at the sub panel and still be protected with the pump and light?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes you can do it that way. I have my easytouch fed with a 30 amp gfci.


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk2

 

[kyle11]

Thanks for your replies. We have a friend of the family that is a licensed electrician that is gonna help out and make sure everything is to code.

I think I will end up using a 15 amp gfci for the pump as it draws 10.8 amps and a 15 amp GFCI in the pool light as I can't find a 10amp GFCI that will work with my sub panel yet. Then run 2 regular 20 amp circuits to the gazebo each with a gfci outlet. One will have the mini fridge 3 outlets, lights/ fan and the aqua plus? The other will have the tv/audio equipment, 3 outlets and ice maker.

I think my only real question is would it hurt to put the aqua plus on the same circuit as the pool light or would it be better on the pergola/gazebo outlet or does it need it's own circuit! The book says it just draws 2 amps at 120v and to not hook it to 220v or I would hook it to the pump outlet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jblizzle]

I am not certain about the GFCI specifics ... so will let others comment on that.

In the setups I have seen, the SWG is usually on the same circuit as the pump ... and actually uses the timer to turn on and off the power to both the SWG and the pump at the same time.

But, you have the automation system right? Does it not have its own internal sub-panel? ... I thought it was the same as the ProLogic cabinets.

Maybe I am not understanding exactly what you are trying to do. I would think you would run a high amp service to the Aqua Plus (like 50 amps) and then use that sub panel to feed the other circuits by the pool.

Oh wait, maybe that is what you are doing.

I would rather keep my pool circuit apart from the deck circuits. So, I would put the aqua plus power on the same circuit as the light I think since they are both low power. Then have a separate circuit for the pump and then 2 circuits to the deck outlets.

Again, I am not sure if just using a 60 amp GFCI breaker at the main panel is good enough or not ... but that would certainly be the easiest. Although, that means if 1 circuit is tripping the GFCI (like the refrigerator say) ... ALL of your pool equipment will shut off. So, it may be best to use separate GFCI for each circuit in my mind.

BTW, I have never heard of a 10 amp breaker ... I think 15 amp is the minimum.

 

[techguy]

I did a little poking around and what I got out of it was if the device is hard wired a GFCI breaker is appropriate but if the devices iin the circuit plug in, a GFCI outlet is more practical. You can easily reset an outlet without going to the panel. Also, as mention above, of you GFCI the 60 amp breaker, all circuit downstream of that breaker will lose power if any device in any circuit trips the GFCI.

So, if a mouse chews your landscape lights cable and cause a GFCI fault, the pump, SWG and all pool automation items are powered off until the 60A breaker is reset.

 

[jblizzle]

So, if a mouse chews your landscape lights cable and cause a GFCI fault, the pump, SWG and all pool automation items are powered off until the 60A breaker is reset.

And you track down where in all those circuits, the mouse chewed, or the water caused a trip ... this could be a real pain ...

 

[kyle11]

I am not certain about the GFCI specifics ... so will let others comment on that.

In the setups I have seen, the SWG is usually on the same circuit as the pump ... and actually uses the timer to turn on and off the power to both the SWG and the pump at the same time.

But, you have the automation system right? Does it not have its own internal sub-panel? ... I thought it was the same as the ProLogic cabinets.

Maybe I am not understanding exactly what you are trying to do. I would think you would run a high amp service to the Aqua Plus (like 50 amps) and then use that sub panel to feed the other circuits by the pool.

Oh wait, maybe that is what you are doing.

I would rather keep my pool circuit apart from the deck circuits. So, I would put the aqua plus power on the same circuit as the light I think since they are both low power. Then have a separate circuit for the pump and then 2 circuits to the deck outlets.

Again, I am not sure if just using a 60 amp GFCI breaker at the main panel is good enough or not ... but that would certainly be the easiest. Although, that means if 1 circuit is tripping the GFCI (like the refrigerator say) ... ALL of your pool equipment will shut off. So, it may be best to use separate GFCI for each circuit in my mind.

BTW, I have never heard of a 10 amp breaker ... I think 15 amp is the minimum.

Yes I have the aqua plus which has the 100 amp sub panel. I plan to run a 60 amp from the main to it. I think I have decided to have the pump and light protected with a gfci breaker each and the 2 circuits at the pergola/gazebo protected with gfci outlets. I was under the impression that I could hook up the aqua plus to the 220 like other SWG's but the book states to never hook it up to anything but a 120v circuit. It does not say whether it needs to be gfci protected or not. I think not because it will be 30 feet from the water and will never come in direct contact with water so I may just put it on its own 15 amp circuit so I do not have to worry about the pool light or 2 other circuits tripping it off even though it only draws 2 amps.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kyle11]

I did a little poking around and what I got out of it was if the device is hard wired a GFCI breaker is appropriate but if the devices iin the circuit plug in, a GFCI outlet is more practical. You can easily reset an outlet without going to the panel. Also, as mention above, of you GFCI the 60 amp breaker, all circuit downstream of that breaker will lose power if any device in any circuit trips the GFCI.

So, if a mouse chews your landscape lights cable and cause a GFCI fault, the pump, SWG and all pool automation items are powered off until the 60A breaker is reset.

That makes since. I think that's what I am going to do. It is only gonna cost an extra $150 or so to do each circuit in a gfci of some sort. Thanks tech!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[techguy]

It's outside, spend the extra, get a GFCI outlet in each circuit that is not directly connected to a GFCI breaker.

Sorry to be short.

I just read your new posting, GFCI outlets are not expensive. If you are buying them at a HD or similar, look on the bottom shelf for unboxed outlets, they are the same as above...no box...less money.

 

[mpippins]

So, if a mouse chews your landscape lights cable and cause a GFCI fault, the pump, SWG and all pool automation items are powered off until the 60A breaker is reset.

I don't think that would trip the GFCI, as the lights would be on the low voltage side of the power supply. It would hit the 12v fuse though. Also, keep this in mind...

"Low-voltage lighting systems, such as those covered by Article 411, shall not be within 10 ft of a pool, spa or hot tub even if GFCI protected [411.4]. Figure 680-13 un680-13 680-22B4 411-04.cdr"

Does the aqua rite SWG System need one?

In my opinion the transformer for the SWG cell needs to be protected. Usually this is powered off the pump relay.
"680.22 Area Lighting, Receptacles and Equipment.

(A) Receptacles.
(1) Circulation System, Location. Receptacles for pool, outdoor spa, and hot tub motors or other loads directly related to the circulation system shall be located at least 10 ft from the inside walls, or not less than 5 ft from the inside walls if the receptacle is: Figure 680-5 un680-05 680-22A1 01.cdr
(1) A single receptacle.
(2) Of the twist-lock type.
(3) Of the grounding type.
(4) GFCI protected."

I think my only real question is would it hurt to put the aqua plus on the same circuit as the pool light or would it be better on the pergola/gazebo outlet or does it need it's own circuit! The book says it just draws 2 amps at 120v and to not hook it to 220v or I would hook it to the pump outlet.

That would be fine as far as code goes, but i like to have mine on its own breaker so i have a true disconnect when i am shocking or whatever causes me to not want the SWG on.

Also keep these in mind..

"On the property for a dwelling unit, all outdoor receptacles shall be GFCI protected, regardless of the distance from a pool, outdoor spa or hot tub [2108(A)(3)]."

"GFCI Protection in Adjacent Areas. Luminaires and ceiling fans installed in the area extending between 5 ft and 10 ft horizontally from the inside walls of a pool, outdoor spa or hot tub shall be GFCI protected, unless installed not less than 5 ft above the maximum water level."

From what i read that says everything in the gazebo needs to be protected.

 

[kyle11]

So, if a mouse chews your landscape lights cable and cause a GFCI fault, the pump, SWG and all pool automation items are powered off until the 60A breaker is reset.

I don't think that would trip the GFCI, as the lights would be on the low voltage side of the power supply. It would hit the 12v fuse though. Also, keep this in mind...

"Low-voltage lighting systems, such as those covered by Article 411, shall not be within 10 ft of a pool, spa or hot tub even if GFCI protected [411.4]. Figure 680-13 un680-13 680-22B4 411-04.cdr"



[quote:23f69q4f]Does the aqua rite SWG System need one?

In my opinion the transformer for the SWG cell needs to be protected. Usually this is powered off the pump relay.
"680.22 Area Lighting, Receptacles and Equipment.

(A) Receptacles.
(1) Circulation System, Location. Receptacles for pool, outdoor spa, and hot tub motors or other loads directly related to the circulation system shall be located at least 10 ft from the inside walls, or not less than 5 ft from the inside walls if the receptacle is: Figure 680-5 un680-05 680-22A1 01.cdr
(1) A single receptacle.
(2) Of the twist-lock type.
(3) Of the grounding type.
(4) GFCI protected."

I think my only real question is would it hurt to put the aqua plus on the same circuit as the pool light or would it be better on the pergola/gazebo outlet or does it need it's own circuit! The book says it just draws 2 amps at 120v and to not hook it to 220v or I would hook it to the pump outlet.

That would be fine as far as code goes, but i like to have mine on its own breaker so i have a true disconnect when i am shocking or whatever causes me to not want the SWG on.

Also keep these in mind..

"On the property for a dwelling unit, all outdoor receptacles shall be GFCI protected, regardless of the distance from a pool, outdoor spa or hot tub [2108(A)(3)]."

"GFCI Protection in Adjacent Areas. Luminaires and ceiling fans installed in the area extending between 5 ft and 10 ft horizontally from the inside walls of a pool, outdoor spa or hot tub shall be GFCI protected, unless installed not less than 5 ft above the maximum water level."

From what i read that says everything in the gazebo needs to be protected.[/quote:23f69q4f]

Thanks. I was planning on having every circuit gfci protected either by breakers or outlets. My only thing now was whether the actual automation system needed it. This is a page from the book.

[attachment=0:23f69q4f]ImageUploadedByTapatalk1342489665.862716.jpg[/attachment:23f69q4f]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jblizzle]

Not all landscape lighting is 12V. Mine is 120v ... of course then you would say it should be in a conduit, right ... well, the previous own apparently did not believe in "codes"

Well, not everything in the gazebo would have to be protected if it was more than 10 feet from the pool. Lights and ceiling fans would be exempt I believe. Actually they would be exempt over 5' from the pool if they were 5' above the water.


@kyle11 ... I would not think that circuit would need to be GFCI protected as it is all internal. There would be very low risk of an electrocution issue ... unless you were out fiddling in the box in the rain, which is probably not a good idea anyway

 

[techguy]

My fictional mouse ate the fictional power cord to the transformer...and went to fictional heaven when he stepping in a puddle. LOL

 

[kyle11]

Well, not everything in the gazebo would have to be protected if it was more than 10 feet from the pool. Lights and ceiling fans would be exempt I believe. Actually they would be exempt over 5' from the pool if they were 5' above the water.


@kyle11 ... I would not think that circuit would need to be GFCI protected as it is all internal. There would be very low risk of an electrocution issue ... unless you were out fiddling in the box in the rain, which is probably not a good idea anyway

I think I would still have to have the 2 gfci outlet which will be connected to both circuits as there will be a sink. I can't remember the distance they have To be away from a sink to not have a gfci. But at $25 an outlet I will add them anyways.

I agree. That is what I really wanted confirmation on because it is internal. I can see why a non automation like the aqua rite would need gfci because the sub panel is not built In but then again with those you can hook them up to a 220 gfci breaker with the pump.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mpippins]

I agree the automation does not need protected.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2