High PH, High TA, High CH, Low CL, Low CYA-what to do first?

[lyn37]

I'm giving the pool maintenance a try since my husband who only really focused on the FC level using HTH test strips. We could never get our FC to register on the test strips (said 0) unless we added a Trichlor puck or shocked it. I have obtained a Taylor K-2006 test kit.

Our pool water is sparkling clear; our test results have some issues though...

On July 10, I tested with the Taylor K-2006 and received these test results:
FC: 1 (A Trichlor puck was added plus a shock treatment on July 6 since we were going to be out of town for the weekend and didn't want to return to a green pool. SWG was not run during this time.)
CC: .5
PH: over 8 (wouldn't register on test)
TA: 425
CYA: under 30 (wouldn't register on test)
CH: 800 (kept getting purple result so had to mix with distilled water)

After getting these results on July 10, we added a gallon of Muriatic Acid to lower PH and TA and then started the SWG. Our CH is so high that our SWG can only run for about 12 hours and it stops with 91 low salt alarm. Since our FC is always low, we try to run it in 12 hour spans but we need to clean it after each cycle. Since our FC was so low and we had at least 100 water boatman bugs swimming in the pool, I threw a Trichlor puck in the skimmer (July 10).

On July 11, I added 1 lb of CYA to the skimmer basket directly.

I didn't have time to do a full CYA test so I used a test strip and didn't see any change in CYA. PH was down to 6.8 according to the test strip.

Water boatman are all dead now--not a single one there. Yeah!!

Today, at 10 AM, I added another 1/2 lb CYA in a sock in the skimmer basket. By 4:00 I was able to get it all dissolved in the sock.

I tested today at about 5 PM and these are my results:
FC: 5.5 (with 1 Trichlor tab--only ran SWG one 12 hour cycle on July 10
CC: 2
PH: 7.4
TA: 400
CYA: under 30 (wouldn't register on test)
CH: 800 (didn't retest)

I just don't know where to go from here? Should we be shocking with bleach since the CYA just doesn't seem to move? Is my CH of 800 so high we should forget about trying to use a SWG?

Thank you for your help!!!!!

 

[spidey07]

Re: High PH, High TA, High CH, Low CL, Low CYA-what to do fi

Here's my NEWB opinion, do NOT follow my advice. I am putting this post out there to see if I've got everything down.

1) Make sure your CH test results are good, that is way high and only partial drain/fill can fix that. If you need to do a partial drain/fill then no use starting to shock now or address other issues
2) You need to follow the shocking process described in pool school with your FC and CC levels.
3) Your TA levels are way high but can be dealt with following pool school of lowering pH and aeration but at those levels it's going to take a lot of muratic acid and time. Make sure the drops are fully formed, the TA titrant can be subject to static electricity producing much smaller or empty drops. Wipe with damp paper towel every few drops to make sure you're getting nice big and FULL drops.

In my totally NEWB opinion, and it is only that, an opinion and not direction to do anything I say...you need to do a partial drain/fill to take care of CH (which should help with your TA depending on fill water), then start shocking and getting your CYA up.

I say again, do not do what I'm saying, this is NEWB opinion only. For sure re-test your CH and maybe test again, it can be a difficult test to reach end point so read the extended test instructions here.
extended-test-kit-directions-t25081.html

 

[linen]

Re: High PH, High TA, High CH, Low CL, Low CYA-what to do fi

Welcome to tfp, lyn37

Another Minnesotan, we will be the majority on tfp

I have obtained a Taylor K-2006 test kit.

Should we be shocking with bleach since the CYA just doesn't seem to move?

Not having cya show up in test and needing to shock are unrelated.

From what I have read, you have added 1.5 lbs of granualr stabilzer which should have raised your cya level to about 24 ppm...plus the trichlor you have put in. Do you know how many pucks you have put in? Stabilizer can take up to a week to show up in the test.

Is my CH of 800 so high we should forget about trying to use a SWG?

It is high, but if it isn't causing any problems, then you can live with it. Problems would include cloudy water, scaling on surfaces and build up on the swg plates. My guess is that the "shock" you have used is calcium Hypochlorite?

To use the swg with that high ch, may require lower TA and keeping you ph level down around 7.2. You will not know until you run it for awhile though.

Since you water is clear, you may not need to do the shocking process. To see if you need it, I would run an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test (OCLT). I would bring your FC up to 10 ppm to do the test.

 

[lyn37]

Re: High PH, High TA, High CH, Low CL, Low CYA-what to do fi

Thanks for the input! Regarding draining the pool---since this will only be up for two more months and then taken down for the winter, we really do not want to drain it and refill.

 

[spidey07]

Re: High PH, High TA, High CH, Low CL, Low CYA-what to do fi

Thanks for the input! Regarding draining the pool---since this will only be up for two more months and then taken down for the winter, we really do not want to drain it and refill.

That's why you don't listen to me and listen to the experts.

 

[Butterfly]

Re: High PH, High TA, High CH, Low CL, Low CYA-what to do fi

I think linen missed your CC of 2, which indicates that you DO need to do the shock process.

2) You need to follow the shocking process described in pool school with your FC and CC levels.

Follow the shock process in Pool School.

 

[linen]

Re: High PH, High TA, High CH, Low CL, Low CYA-what to do fi

I think linen missed your CC of 2, which indicates that you DO need to do the shock process.

I sure did! Thanks BF (and spidey too)

 

[lyn37]

Re: High PH, High TA, High CH, Low CL, Low CYA-what to do fi

Another Minnesotan, we will be the majority on tfp

Not having cya show up in test and needing to shock are unrelated.

I wondered if algae/bacteria were "consuming" it.

Do you know how many pucks you have put in?

We put in 6 pucks

My guess is that the "shock" you have used is calcium Hypochlorite?

Yes it is, we have added 3 bags. 1 of those was a "super shock"

Last night I added enough bleach to bring it to 12.5 PPM; this morning I tested and it is 11.5 PPM. CC didn't change at 1.5 PPM.

I noticed the water boatman are back. They left after adding the muriatic acid and are back now. The PH was 6.8 5 days ago when they left and now it is 7.7. We have only ran the SWG for 12 hours during that time since we keep getting a low salt error and the salt level is fine. How does the PH increase that much if we aren't using the SWG and we have only swam in it twice?

I appreciate the help!!!!!

 

[supertune]

Re: High PH, High TA, High CH, Low CL, Low CYA-what to do fi

Hi lyn37 and welcome to TFP!
Your high TA is causing the pH to swing up a lot.
You need to continue to add muriatic acid, lowering your pH to 6.8-7.0
Then airerate the water to raise the pH back up until you get back up 7.8 of 8.0, test TA again, do the cycle all over again to continue to lower TA.
Lowering to 130-120 would be a lot better.

Mine was 170 and pH kept going up, lowered TA to 100 and problem fixed, my pool stays pegged at 7.5 all the time, even when the pool is full with wild kids!

Chuck

 

[lyn37]

Re: High PH, High TA, High CH, Low CL, Low CYA-what to do fi

Since my last post, I have added bleach to keep the FC level up and the CC level under .5 PPM. I used muriatic acid to lower the PH and aerated the pool. I have stopped aerating today and I added water to the pool.

Here are my latest results:
FC: 8.5
CC: under .5
PH: 7.4
TA: 120
CYA: before adding the water today it was 50-60
CH: 800 (didn't retest) It's high but since this is a seasonal pool we will just deal with it.

I'm really happy with the results and thank this forum for having the information I needed! I seem to have noticed a coorelation between pH level and the water boatman. I haven't found the magic number yet but it is somewhere between 7.0 and 7.3. They leave or die when our pH is around that level.

We have disconnected the SWG so I am hoping the pH stabilizes now.

 

[lyn37]

Re: High PH, High TA, High CH, Low CL, Low CYA-what to do fi

Well, I was thinking 80-120 was the recommended TA level but just looked at the recommendations page and now I see it is 70-90. I will probably continue aerating...

I would like to get the water boatman out of the pool so if I have the pH lower than recommended (like at 7.0-7.3) will that cause any problems?

Thanks!

 

[linen]

Re: High PH, High TA, High CH, Low CL, Low CYA-what to do fi

Well, I was thinking 80-120 was the recommended TA level but just looked at the recommendations page and now I see it is 70-90. I will probably continue aerating...

I wouldn't continue aerating now, just let you pool find it's sweet spot now. Since you are going to try to maintain lower ph, you will be adding MA often (most pools do not regulate that low of ph), and that will drive down your TA.

I would like to get the water boatman out of the pool so if I have the pH lower than recommended (like at 7.0-7.3) will that cause any problems?

If you do not consistently go below 7, it should be fine. Let us know how your experiment goes.

 

[lyn37]

Re: High PH, High TA, High CH, Low CL, Low CYA-what to do fi

Ok, thanks. I'd prefer not to keep buying muriatic acid to lower pH but will do it if it helps.
Any other suggestions on how to get rid of the water boatman. They don't bite we just prefer not to have them in the water.

 

[supertune]

Re: High PH, High TA, High CH, Low CL, Low CYA-what to do fi

I thought that I read that having borates (50ppm) helps with that...maybe someone will chime in. :idea:

Chuck

 

[lyn37]

Re: High PH, High TA, High CH, Low CL, Low CYA-what to do fi

Will adding borates make the water boatman leave?

 

[linen]

Re: High PH, High TA, High CH, Low CL, Low CYA-what to do fi

Will adding borates make the water boatman leave?

Some people have said it does...making sure you maintain a proper FC level (for your cya level) sometimes can also prevent their presence.

 

[BethyM]

Re: High PH, High TA, High CH, Low CL, Low CYA-what to do fi

Check around for the muriatic acid - I use a lot of it! Found it at the "rural king" for 3.99/gallon --- it's over $11 at the hardware store. BIG difference.

 

[linen]

Re: High PH, High TA, High CH, Low CL, Low CYA-what to do fi

Ok, thanks. I'd prefer not to keep buying muriatic acid to lower pH but will do it if it helps.

With an swg, you most likely will need to lower your ph occasionally. If you don't like to use Muriatic Acid, you can use dry acid (sometimes called ph down) from the pool section (or pool store). It is more expensive but works fine.