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Thread: Intelliflo VF is brain dead

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    Intelliflo VF is brain dead

    Hi folks!

    So, I think my Intellflo VF is brain dead. I suspect the pump and motor are fine, but the Control module is dead. I tested both Hot legs feeding the Module and I have power to the unit, but no LED readout at all and no function from the pump.

    Couple questions...

    1. Can I pull the control module and "hot wire" the motor temporarily to make sure the pump and motor are fine? Does anyone have access to the wiring diagram to the motor? There are only three leads. I just need to know which one is the neutral leg. Can the electric motor take the full load straight from the breaker?

    2. Can I purchase just the control module only? How much? Where would I buy this? Is it worth it vs. just purchasing a whole new pump package.

    The pump is almost exactly 4 years old now. It runs 24/7/365 and has been flawless up until this dead stop. No squealing bearings or running dry. Even if the pump or motor went bad, I'd still have an LED readout correct? I have nothing right now.

    Thanks for your thoughts!

    Jim
    Fortune favors the well prepared

    The build...
    viewtopic.php?t=3974
    Freeform 24' x 38' IG gunite. 3 1/2' to 8' deep. 28,500 gallons. AutoPilot Total Control SWCG. Pentair Intelliflo VF. Pentair CCP520 cartridge filter. Colorlogic LED lights. Tahoe Blue Diamond Brite. 1200 sq ft stamped concrete deck.
    More details as they happen...

  2. Back To Top    #2

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    Re: Intelliflo VF is brain dead

    Just a bump for anyone else?
    Fortune favors the well prepared

    The build...
    viewtopic.php?t=3974
    Freeform 24' x 38' IG gunite. 3 1/2' to 8' deep. 28,500 gallons. AutoPilot Total Control SWCG. Pentair Intelliflo VF. Pentair CCP520 cartridge filter. Colorlogic LED lights. Tahoe Blue Diamond Brite. 1200 sq ft stamped concrete deck.
    More details as they happen...

  3. Back To Top    #3
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Intelliflo VF is brain dead

    1) No idea.
    2) Yes. Rather expensive, almost $600 (or more), see for example here.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  4. Back To Top    #4

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    Re: Intelliflo VF is brain dead

    Good find! I could only find them in the $850 range.
    $600 is better than $1200!

    I'll be deconstructing my old one to see if it can be repaired or bypassed in a pinch. Results to follow...later...

    Jim
    Fortune favors the well prepared

    The build...
    viewtopic.php?t=3974
    Freeform 24' x 38' IG gunite. 3 1/2' to 8' deep. 28,500 gallons. AutoPilot Total Control SWCG. Pentair Intelliflo VF. Pentair CCP520 cartridge filter. Colorlogic LED lights. Tahoe Blue Diamond Brite. 1200 sq ft stamped concrete deck.
    More details as they happen...

  5. Back To Top    #5

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    Re: Intelliflo VF is brain dead

    No you can't bypass the brain. You must have a module on it.
    Over 30 years in the pool business
    We build vinyl, fiberglass, stainless steel pools
    Certified in Hydraulics

  6. Back To Top    #6
    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Intelliflo VF is brain dead

    The motor is 3 phase so unless you have 3 phase power, which I doubt, you can't test the motor that way. The best way to test the windings is with an ohm meter. The resistance should be around 1-2 ohms between each leg pair of the windings. Just make sure there are no shorts or opens.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Intelliflo VF is brain dead

    Belldiver

    I recently installed a Pentair Intelliflo pump for 679.00 after an efficiency rebate, you may have these available in your area.

    Pump from Magnolia pool supply 879.00
    Rebate from Nevada Power 200.00


    http://www.magnoliapools.com/Pentair_In ... parent.htm

    http://www.energysavvy.com/rebates/LA/h ... isiana-07/

    http://www.energysmartnola.info/for-you ... l-pump.php
    19000 gal gunite,
    600 gal hottub,
    Intelliflo variable speed pump,
    Pentair 420 filter,
    Pentair 400k heater,
    Hayward Navigator Pro,
    TF-100
    Speed Stir ->->-> Great tool for easy testing

  8. Back To Top    #8

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    Re: Intelliflo VF is brain dead

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985
    The motor is 3 phase so unless you have 3 phase power, which I doubt, you can't test the motor that way. The best way to test the windings is with an ohm meter. The resistance should be around 1-2 ohms between each leg pair of the windings. Just make sure there are no shorts or opens.

    Mas,

    How is this a three phase motor? It says on the motor 230V PH1. There are only three contacts going from the control module to the motor. Hot/Hot/Neutral. Wouldn't three phase have 4 pickups?

    Jim
    Fortune favors the well prepared

    The build...
    viewtopic.php?t=3974
    Freeform 24' x 38' IG gunite. 3 1/2' to 8' deep. 28,500 gallons. AutoPilot Total Control SWCG. Pentair Intelliflo VF. Pentair CCP520 cartridge filter. Colorlogic LED lights. Tahoe Blue Diamond Brite. 1200 sq ft stamped concrete deck.
    More details as they happen...

  9. Back To Top    #9
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Intelliflo VF is brain dead

    Three phase power uses three hot conductors and ground. If ground is handled separately, presumably though a mechanical chassis connection, three phase power could work with three conductors.

    The input is listed as 240 volts one phase, but that doesn't tell you what the motor actually uses internally. Nearly all variable speed motors are three phase. I don't personally know anything about how Pentair did it, but I'm inclined to believe mas985.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  10. Back To Top    #10

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    Re: Intelliflo VF is brain dead

    Quote Originally Posted by vegaspool
    Belldiver

    I recently installed a Pentair Intelliflo pump for 679.00 after an efficiency rebate, you may have these available in your area.

    Pump from Magnolia pool supply 879.00
    Rebate from Nevada Power 200.00


    http://www.magnoliapools.com/Pentair_In ... parent.htm

    http://www.energysavvy.com/rebates/LA/h ... isiana-07/

    http://www.energysmartnola.info/for-you ... l-pump.php
    Just got off the phone with Magnolia, seems like a good outfit. That price is for the VS pump, not the VF, but still a good price. He also mentioned something interesting, that Pentair is no longer selling the Drive Unit individually, because people were buying them and retrofitting them onto other pumps. What a great idea!
    A person could also probably install that power unit remotely to the pump/motor eh? Just extend the wiring? and mount it up on the wall. Hmmm...

    Food for thought...
    Fortune favors the well prepared

    The build...
    viewtopic.php?t=3974
    Freeform 24' x 38' IG gunite. 3 1/2' to 8' deep. 28,500 gallons. AutoPilot Total Control SWCG. Pentair Intelliflo VF. Pentair CCP520 cartridge filter. Colorlogic LED lights. Tahoe Blue Diamond Brite. 1200 sq ft stamped concrete deck.
    More details as they happen...

  11. Back To Top    #11
    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Intelliflo VF is brain dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Belldiver
    How is this a three phase motor? It says on the motor 230V PH1. There are only three contacts going from the control module to the motor. Hot/Hot/Neutral. Wouldn't three phase have 4 pickups?
    The drive (VFD) has a single phase input but generates a 3 phase output for motor. Three phase has only three conductors and as Jason pointed out, ground is handle separately through the motor housing because technically there is nothing to ground inside the motor and only the outside requires grounding. Also, 3 Phase motors have higher efficiency than single phase motors so that is one of the reasons the Intelliflo motor has an efficiency of 92%.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Intelliflo VF is brain dead

    Well, if that is the case, basically I have a perfectly good motor and pump, and Pentair won't sell me a drive unit to control it. 92% efficiency isn't worth squat if a $1200 pump only lasts four years and is non-serviceable.

    Might have to reconsider this purchase.

    Cheap pump that burns a little extra electricity but lasts 10+ years vs. Intelliflo @ $1200 and a 4 year life?

    Thanks for the input everyone!

    Jim
    Fortune favors the well prepared

    The build...
    viewtopic.php?t=3974
    Freeform 24' x 38' IG gunite. 3 1/2' to 8' deep. 28,500 gallons. AutoPilot Total Control SWCG. Pentair Intelliflo VF. Pentair CCP520 cartridge filter. Colorlogic LED lights. Tahoe Blue Diamond Brite. 1200 sq ft stamped concrete deck.
    More details as they happen...

  13. Back To Top    #13
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Intelliflo VF is brain dead

    That rather depends on your electric rates. If they are high enough it is still a great choice.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  14. Back To Top    #14

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    Re: Intelliflo VF is brain dead

    I sell alot of Intelliflo and very rarely do I have any go bad. From past experience generally they get water into the drive is what gets them.
    Over 30 years in the pool business
    We build vinyl, fiberglass, stainless steel pools
    Certified in Hydraulics

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Re: Intelliflo VF is brain dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Belldiver
    Quote Originally Posted by vegaspool
    Belldiver

    I recently installed a Pentair Intelliflo pump for 679.00 after an efficiency rebate, you may have these available in your area.

    Pump from Magnolia pool supply 879.00
    Rebate from Nevada Power 200.00

    http://www.magnoliapools.com/Pentair_In ... parent.htm

    http://www.energysavvy.com/rebates/LA/h ... isiana-07/

    http://www.energysmartnola.info/for-you ... l-pump.php
    Just got off the phone with Magnolia, seems like a good outfit. That price is for the VS pump, not the VF, but still a good price. He also mentioned something interesting, that Pentair is no longer selling the Drive Unit individually, because people were buying them and retrofitting them onto other pumps. What a great idea!
    A person could also probably install that power unit remotely to the pump/motor eh? Just extend the wiring? and mount it up on the wall. Hmmm...

    Food for thought...
    Why do you need / want a VF ?
    In 15 min you can program the VS and its half the price. With the same savings.
    19000 gal gunite,
    600 gal hottub,
    Intelliflo variable speed pump,
    Pentair 420 filter,
    Pentair 400k heater,
    Hayward Navigator Pro,
    TF-100
    Speed Stir ->->-> Great tool for easy testing

  16. Back To Top    #16

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    Re: Intelliflo VF is brain dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Belldiver
    Quote Originally Posted by vegaspool
    Belldiver

    I recently installed a Pentair Intelliflo pump for 679.00 after an efficiency rebate, you may have these available in your area.

    Pump from Magnolia pool supply 879.00
    Rebate from Nevada Power 200.00


    http://www.magnoliapools.com/Pentair_In ... parent.htm

    http://www.energysavvy.com/rebates/LA/h ... isiana-07/

    http://www.energysmartnola.info/for-you ... l-pump.php
    Just got off the phone with Magnolia, seems like a good outfit. That price is for the VS pump, not the VF, but still a good price. He also mentioned something interesting, that Pentair is no longer selling the Drive Unit individually, because people were buying them and retrofitting them onto other pumps. What a great idea!
    A person could also probably install that power unit remotely to the pump/motor eh? Just extend the wiring? and mount it up on the wall. Hmmm...

    Food for thought...
    What the guy at Magnolia said doesn't make much sense. That price is close to a new pump, and you'd have to have an existing 3-phase motor for it to work. BTW, if you look up 3-phase motor controller on eBay, you will find a bunch of them for less than $300 that will convert single phase 220V to 3-phase with speed control. Some even have RS485 control, so they essentially function as the speed control on an IntelliFlo, but without the fancy stuff like the nice menu, etc. If I were going to just "roll my own" and I had a 3 phase pump, I would have just gone this route for much cheaper than purchasing the Intelliflo head.
    38K in ground pool with attached spa. Current equipment: Easytouch 8 (521150) with IC-60 SWCG with web control by Autelis, 1x Pentair IntelliFlo 011018 pump (for filter), 1x Pentair 2HP WhisperFlo pump (for waterfall), 2X Pentair IntelliBrite 5G 12V lights, Pentair MiniMax400 NG Heater, Pentair SMBW2060 DE filter. Zodiac Barracuda MX8 cleaner on dedicated cleaner line. Lighting/home automation controlled by Insteon/ISY-99i.

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Re: Intelliflo VF is brain dead

    Quote Originally Posted by vegaspool
    Why do you need / want a VF ?
    In 15 min you can program the VS and its half the price. With the same savings.
    The VF is what I had before (and still have the corpse). Will a VS head work on the VF body? I'm guessing it's the same motor and pump but don't know for sure.

    The VF keeps the turnover (flow) rate of your water constant, as other conditions change, like filter pressure. The VS just keeps the RPM the same, not revving up as it sees restriction, so essentially your turnover rate goes down as your filter pressure goes up. I know, probably a suttle difference...

    I'm still debating it. I'm just having a hard time swallowing ~$1200 for a pump that only lasted 4 years.

    Thanks,

    Jim
    Fortune favors the well prepared

    The build...
    viewtopic.php?t=3974
    Freeform 24' x 38' IG gunite. 3 1/2' to 8' deep. 28,500 gallons. AutoPilot Total Control SWCG. Pentair Intelliflo VF. Pentair CCP520 cartridge filter. Colorlogic LED lights. Tahoe Blue Diamond Brite. 1200 sq ft stamped concrete deck.
    More details as they happen...

  18. Back To Top    #18

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    Re: Intelliflo VF is brain dead

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985
    The resistance should be around 1-2 ohms between each leg pair of the windings. Just make sure there are no shorts or opens.
    Checked the resistance. There's right at 1.0 ohm resistance between any/all of the legs. Motor seems OK.

    I did pull the "brain" apart last night. Found a little moisture/condensation inside the unit and one burnt spot on the board. Doesn't look too bad, going to solder it today and see what happens.

    I'm guessing the moisture shorted across the board contacts and caused the problem. It's just one spot, everything else looks good, and the actual phase inverter is completely encased in epoxy.

    I'll post some pics later today too.

    Jim
    Fortune favors the well prepared

    The build...
    viewtopic.php?t=3974
    Freeform 24' x 38' IG gunite. 3 1/2' to 8' deep. 28,500 gallons. AutoPilot Total Control SWCG. Pentair Intelliflo VF. Pentair CCP520 cartridge filter. Colorlogic LED lights. Tahoe Blue Diamond Brite. 1200 sq ft stamped concrete deck.
    More details as they happen...

  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Re: Intelliflo VF is brain dead

    Quote Originally Posted by swimcmp
    I sell alot of Intelliflo and very rarely do I have any go bad. From past experience generally they get water into the drive is what gets them.
    That's what got me. I pulled the brain apart last night and it had some condensation in it. I'm going to attempt a "field repair" today and see how it goes.

    Jim
    Fortune favors the well prepared

    The build...
    viewtopic.php?t=3974
    Freeform 24' x 38' IG gunite. 3 1/2' to 8' deep. 28,500 gallons. AutoPilot Total Control SWCG. Pentair Intelliflo VF. Pentair CCP520 cartridge filter. Colorlogic LED lights. Tahoe Blue Diamond Brite. 1200 sq ft stamped concrete deck.
    More details as they happen...

  20. Back To Top    #20
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Intelliflo VF is brain dead

    A VS control unit/head can be installed on a VF motor/pump. The motor/pump section is identical in both models, only the electronics differ.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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