New Pool staining

[tpjimmie]

Ok I have read and read so much on stains that I am confused. I have a pool that is exactly one year old. I seem to have some greenish brown moulting staining on the deep end and it seems to be getting worse and I can not rub them off. And some light brown green stains in some rough plaster at the step corners. The plaster in most all the pool is still smooth. So if vitamin C makes the stain go away or reduce its a metal stain and this means AA treatment? If a Trichlor puck makes it fade its organic, and I am not sure of that treatment other than shock. Also my daughters blonde hair seems to get greenish. Does that mean I have copper problem? I am totally confused. Any help would be so appreciated. I will try and post pics when I can download them. Thanks Jim

Numbers from Taylor Kit

FC 4.5
CC .5
pH 7.6
TA 70
CH 260
CYA 38ish

 

[JasonLion]

You are not confused at all! You are correct on every point.

Try the Vitamin C, and if that doesn't work, try the trichlor tablet, and tell us what happens.

 

[tpjimmie]

Well I used some granular pH down and put in a sock and put it over the stain held in place with a big rock and I also put granular chlorine in a sock and did the same for 12 hours. Honestly I really can tell if either one of them did anything to the stains. I sort of think the acid did more. eyes play tricks on you when you are in the pool. If I combine that with the fact that my daughters hair turns a little green and the algecide has copper in it that i used earlier in the season. I am thinking it is copper. I had the water tested for metals at the local pool store and it came up with nothing significant. What would be your guys advice to do? AA treatment or some sort of treatment like jacks magic or GLB stain magnet? combined with shocking treatment after? I have always kept my numbers in line according to the pool calculator.

 

[tpjimmie]

So if I had to guess I would say the chlorine removed the stain better than the acid doing the test again. Jason, would your advise be to shock the pool according to pool school? I have the 6% bleach on hand. Odd thing is, the water is crystal clear and you can not rub off the stains. I just wonder if the chlorine isnt just bleaching out the stain...

 

[dcwed]

Did you come up with any solutions for this?

 

[Bluegrassman]

Did you come up with any solutions for this?

You did not mention in your posts if you tried ascorbic acid treatment. You did mention pH down, which is dry acid (sodium bisulfate) and is not the same thing.
Have you in fact tried the AA treatment?
How much copper containing algaecide did you use earlier in the season?
I would not trust pool store tests. To really be sure of the copper levels, I would order a copper test kit, such as this one

 

[tpjimmie]

[attachment=0:1d3mtcjg]IMG_20130718_194825_006.jpg[/attachment:1d3mtcjg]I am going to reopen this problem as I have never really figured out what it is. I have spent this season trying to identify it, then got frustrated and left it. The water has always been sparkling crystal clear. I can not really even see the stains until the sun goes down. I have used Jacks magic Blue stuff as directed thinking it was copper staining because of kids hair a little green tint. I also used their stain id kit with no real noticeable results to ID it. The only thing that will get rid of the stain is a round chlorine puck that sits overnight. I just got done shocking, but it didnt seem to have any effect. So I tried the ascorbic acid vitamin C tabs to see if that worked. Over night this did nothing to lighten the stain. So now I am back to zero. I have searched and searched this forum for similar problems, while some where close, none had an answer that I could find. I remember reading where Jason had said that a puck will show that it is organic in nature, but also could remove copper stain? I dont really want to do the AA treatment as I dont think it will work with my Vitamin C test. So I am asking for help again. Please look at the pictures and look at my numbers from my FAS-DPD Taylor kit last night. In the picture you can see the Vitamin C tabs and the large round white circle where the puck sat a week ago. I am sort of leaning towards shocking at a higher ppm instead of the 28 I shocked it at. Also for some back ground, I closed and opened to a crystal clear pool. And I have used the TFP way the last two seasons and no pool store stuff except when I have to. Thanks in advance.

FC 16
CC 0
pH 7.6
CYA 70
CH 310
TA 120 (not sure why this is so high, was not this high last week)
3600 salt

 

[Stu7]

I had the same problem as you and the same experience with trying to identify the stain and treat it. Eventually, I gave up and called in a couple of different local pool guys. One suggested a full drain acid wash and the other was a no drain acid wash for 3-5 days with the existing pool water. I choose the no drain acid wash and it worked a charm. Stain was gone in under 3 days and pool guy balanced the pool. The guy treated and brushed aggressively each day, something I could not spend the time on due to work commitments. The purists may not agree that this was the best course of action but in the end it saved me pulling my hair out trying more stain ID kits and solved the stain issue.

Good luck!

 

[onBalance]

I believe there are two issues going on here, and adding more chlorine will not fix or remove the discoloration.
As mentioned in the above posts, copper in the water which will cause hair to turn green, and the plaster turquoise stains. AA treatments, Trichlor pucks, and Jack's Magic products do remove copper and other mineral staining fairly easily.
Since your plaster job is fairly new, I think you also have some "gray (dark) mottling discoloration" of white plaster. The above treatments are not very effective on this type of discoloration.

The reason the Trichlor puck worked is because it is very acidic, and over time, eventually "etched" the surface. That area turns white because of the porosity created by the acid. That is also why a "no drain acid treatment" sometimes work. The surface becomes etched. Gray mottling usually takes a while to show up after plastering due to calcium chloride reacting with certain cement compounds, and late hard troweling, which causes a darkening of the plaster to eventually show up. It is an improper plastering issue. And the reality is, in order to remove the graying, you sacrifice a few years on the life of the plaster.

See this post for more information: gray-mottling-plaster-discoloration-t44424.html

 

[tpjimmie]

Thank you so much for the responses. I will try the no drain acid wash after season. Odd thing is its not gray or dark, its yellow/brown in color. Not sure if gray mottling is also yellow/brown. I still have a hard time believing it is algae. My CC readings are always 0 or less than .5 and in line and water seems perfect. I am religious in my testing and balancing.

 

[tpjimmie]

Well I wanted to follow up to give closure on this issue. This year I opened to more of the same stain. And I decided to do the acid bath and I just got finished. I used this article http://www.poolgeniusnetwork.com/profiles/blogs/the-zero-alkalinity-acid-treatment - to help me calculate the amount of acid to use. I brushed 3 times a day with a SST pool brush. I have to say it turned out fabulous. It looks brand new. Plaster feels smooth. I was a little worried about CH rising out of control. Before the treatment my CH was 325 after it came in at 450 and it is slowly coming back down and is at 375 right now. The pool remained crystal clear the whole time, altho you could smell the acid and see little clouds of dirty plaster dust. I added about 23 lbs of soda ash. This raised both my TA and PH. I had bought some baking soda to raise the TA, however with just the soda ash it came in at 100. I am going to have to get this a little lower. Once I added the soda ash it clouded up very heavy, but cleared up in a day. Right now to keep the stain from coming back. I have added the recommended quantity of Metal Magic. Anyway, I did not want to let this post end with out some sort of solution. Seems I found a lot of those when searching others similar problems.

 

[onBalance]

Thanks for the report and glad it worked!

Based on your treatment and results, I would say that the main problem was calcium scaling combined with dirt and/or iron (yellow/brown color) attached to the scale.
A light acid treatment would work fairly well in removing scale on your relatively new plaster.
I am little concerned about the addition of soda ash. That could result in more calcium scaling again, and would remain white for a short time.
Make sure you also brush the pool vigorously right now to prevent any scale from sticking to the plaster.