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Thread: TF100 Arrived... asking advice on results

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    TF100 Arrived... asking advice on results

    Got the kit. Ran through tests twice to be sure I got it. What a great kit! My SWG pool of 20800Gal is new water about 2 weeks ago. I am running the pump 12h/day and the SWG at 75%.

    My readings are: (I put my goals in ()s - am I correct?)
    FC 1 (3-5)
    CC 0 (0)
    TC 2 (with taylor basic) (3-5)
    pH 7.6 (with taylor basic) (7.5-7.8)
    T/A 200 (60-80)
    CH 220 (50-300)
    CYA 20 (70-80)
    Salt 3000 (3000)
    Borates 0 (0)
    Temp 82F
    CSI 0.16 (good so far!)

    Using the pool calculator the suggested FC levels for CYA levels on a SWG is 1 - so it seems to be working.

    Actions:
    [1] I should first adjust the CYA to 70, then see if the SWG then pushes the FC up. So tomorrow find a tube sock for 139oz of stabilizer. That's a lot I think - should I do it in a couple passes (1/2, then 1/2 a week later)

    [2] Try to lower TA by by reducing pH to 7.0 using muriatic, then use baking soda to raise pH back to 7.5?

    By correcting the CYA and then the TA, that should level things out so that I can produce enough FC with the SWG. Once these two are in line, I can start adjusting the SWG % and pump run-time. I would also like to look at Borates after I get everything smooth.

    Am I correct on all this? Am I getting the right idea for BBB and TFP?
    Thanks!
    Josh S
    ----------------------------
    20.8k gal vinyl kidney; 600sqft surf area, Hayward 1HP Super; 300Lb Sand Filter; Aqua-Rite/T-9; RainbowRay LEDs, Jandy Deck Jets; and a whole 'lotta sweat n time...

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: TF100 Arrived... asking advice on results

    given the low FC, I would confirm you do not need to go through the shock process before raising the CYA that high.

    Turn off the SWG. Bump the FC up to around 10ppm and do the OCLT to see if anything is living in the pool using up your FC.

    Posted with Tapatalk ... sorry if I sound short ... hate typing on phone
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: TF100 Arrived... asking advice on results

    Jbliz beat me, I agree with the OCLT... here is my take...

    That swg cell size is small for you pool, so it will have to work pretty hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by shep377
    Got the kit


    Quote Originally Posted by shep377
    1] I should first adjust the CYA to 70, then see if the SWG then pushes the FC up. So tomorrow find a tube sock for 139oz of stabilizer. That's a lot I think - should I do it in a couple passes (1/2, then 1/2 a week later)
    If you are confident in your pool volume no reason not to get it in there. Have you added any cya yet, I see you are reading 20? 20 is right on the edge of not being measurable.

    Quote Originally Posted by shep377
    [2] Try to lower TA by by reducing pH to 7.0 using muriatic, then use baking soda to raise pH back to 7.5?
    Lower TA by lower ph to 7.2 (or 7.0) then aerate to get the ph to rise up to 7.8, then bring it back down to 7.2 again (at the same to you also lower TA), repeat, repeat until TA is where you want it. Do you use baking sode, that raises TA. Here is the process:http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-...l%20alkalinity

    Quote Originally Posted by shep377
    By correcting the CYA and then the TA, that should level things out so that I can produce enough FC with the SWG. Once these two are in line, I can start adjusting the SWG % and pump run-time. I would also like to look at Borates after I get everything smooth.
    TA won't effect your FC production. Getting you cya up will protect your FC better against the sun. Make sure you move you FC up to your minimum with bleach/Liquid chlorine, then let the swg take over form there to hold it up.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: TF100 Arrived... asking advice on results

    Based on your advice, I will do an OCLT tonight. If I add in 194oz of 12% Bleach I should get to 10ppm. I'll do this about 4pm, then measure FC at 10pm and again at 6am. This should tell me if I lose any overnight (<1ppm).

    If all is well with the water, I will work on increasing CYA to 70. The FC I will get to 3-4ppm and then play with the SWG to keep it there. (I know it is undersized, but again, bought before finding this forum... when it dies, will replace with T15).

    In the mean time, I will try and lower my TA as suggested.

    Questions:
    1. Am I correct so far?
    2. Should I increase CYA in two batches and wait between or all at once?
    3. Will Deck Jets help to aerate? I wonder if I could change the jet and make it a spray?

    I think I am on the right track. Thanks everyone.
    Josh S
    ----------------------------
    20.8k gal vinyl kidney; 600sqft surf area, Hayward 1HP Super; 300Lb Sand Filter; Aqua-Rite/T-9; RainbowRay LEDs, Jandy Deck Jets; and a whole 'lotta sweat n time...

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: TF100 Arrived... asking advice on results

    CYA is easy to raise and difficult to lower. I wouldn't add the full calculated amount all at once, though you could do 2/3 or 3/4 of it to start.

    Yes, deck jets will help aerate, though not as well as some other options.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: TF100 Arrived... asking advice on results

    Good news! I brought my FC to 14.5 and passed the OCLT! So, I guess that my SWG just couldn't keep up with the almost-no CYA and the very sunny days!

    Now I think I have 3 steps I can do simultaneously to get everything right:
    1. Maintain FC each night with 12% bleach until all is stabilized and then run with SWG
    2. Pull my CYA up in 2 doses: 20-55 in the 1st dose, wait 5 days, then 55-75 in the 2nd
    3. Lower my TA by MA to lower pH&TA, Raise pH with aeration - repeat

    Am I missing anything?
    Thanks!

    FC 14.5
    CC 0
    pH 7.8
    T/A 190
    CH 220
    CYA 20 (or less?)
    Josh S
    ----------------------------
    20.8k gal vinyl kidney; 600sqft surf area, Hayward 1HP Super; 300Lb Sand Filter; Aqua-Rite/T-9; RainbowRay LEDs, Jandy Deck Jets; and a whole 'lotta sweat n time...

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: TF100 Arrived... asking advice on results

    on the OCLT.

    Your plan looks good to me.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: TF100 Arrived... results

    Executing the plan and starting to see results. Dropped pH this morning to 7.2 and using the pHupinator it is now back to 7.5 and climbing. The TA I have gotten down to 160.

    The CYA takes a LONG time to dissolve in the skimmer sock! It has been there 12 hours now and still almost all there. I still have another sock or two to get into the water still, so this is going to take a week just to get it in. I was thinking of multiple socks hanging like fish across the front of the skimmer...
    Josh S
    ----------------------------
    20.8k gal vinyl kidney; 600sqft surf area, Hayward 1HP Super; 300Lb Sand Filter; Aqua-Rite/T-9; RainbowRay LEDs, Jandy Deck Jets; and a whole 'lotta sweat n time...

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: TF100 Arrived... asking advice on results

    Quote Originally Posted by shep377

    The CYA takes a LONG time to dissolve in the skimmer sock! It has been there 12 hours now and still almost all there. I still have another sock or two to get into the water still, so this is going to take a week just to get it in. I was thinking of multiple socks hanging like fish across the front of the skimmer...
    I prefer to hang the cya sock in front of the return. There it get buffeted by the return flow and it is easy to reach an give a squeeze every time you go by it.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: TF100 Arrived... asking advice on results

    Just prop a stick out with a satring so it hangs down without resting on wall?
    Josh S
    ----------------------------
    20.8k gal vinyl kidney; 600sqft surf area, Hayward 1HP Super; 300Lb Sand Filter; Aqua-Rite/T-9; RainbowRay LEDs, Jandy Deck Jets; and a whole 'lotta sweat n time...

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    benavidescj's Avatar
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    Re: TF100 Arrived... asking advice on results

    Quote Originally Posted by shep377
    Just prop a stick out with a satring so it hangs down without resting on wall?
    Yes, what you are trying to do is let the CYA slowly dissolve into the water. If it touches the wall that is ok but is should not be because it is out in front of the return. I pour it into my skimmer.
    Carlos
    Pool: 28,000 gallons IG; IC 40 SWG; Pentair 120 gpm cartridge filter; Marble finish; Pentair Wisperflow 1.5 hp; Polaris 360
    Spa: 350 gallon; Bromine
    How to shock your pool

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    Re: TF100 Arrived... asking advice on results

    The CYA finally dissolved yesterday and I did a full test today to see where I am with my various adjustments.

    pH and TA adjustments:
    My TA has moved to 160 from 200+
    My pH is at 7.8-7.9
    I moved them both down with MA to a pH of 7.2 and continue to aerate (48h now)

    CYA adjustments:
    My CYA is now at 60 from 20 (I tested 4 times consistently).
    Glad I added 2/3rds of the move to 70 first! I think this is because it is hard to read CYA near 20 for me. The reading of 60 was easy and repeatable.
    It has only been 2 days since the sock emptied, so I hope it doesn't continue to rise much!

    FC adjustments:
    My CC is 0. My FC is 4. Nice.
    I am going to turn the SWG on again today and see if it holds it.

    Other then getting the TA down, everything is falling into place! I LOVE BBB!

    Interesting: I have been testing pH, TC and TA with both the TF-100 and the kit that came with my pool (just to compare for interest sake). The pool kit continually tests the pH about 0.3 higher and the CL is about 1-3 lower (it changes each time). The TA tests about 20 lower reliably. So there is the best testimony for the TF-100!
    Josh S
    ----------------------------
    20.8k gal vinyl kidney; 600sqft surf area, Hayward 1HP Super; 300Lb Sand Filter; Aqua-Rite/T-9; RainbowRay LEDs, Jandy Deck Jets; and a whole 'lotta sweat n time...

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: TF100 Arrived... asking advice on results

    Sounding good! I am surprised your TA went up. Did you add a lot of water with high TA?
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: TF100 Arrived... asking advice on results

    My pool was filled with a tanker. It came in at 220 about 2-3 weeks ago!
    Josh S
    ----------------------------
    20.8k gal vinyl kidney; 600sqft surf area, Hayward 1HP Super; 300Lb Sand Filter; Aqua-Rite/T-9; RainbowRay LEDs, Jandy Deck Jets; and a whole 'lotta sweat n time...

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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: TF100 Arrived... asking advice on results

    Quote Originally Posted by linen
    Sounding good! I am surprised your TA went up. Did you add a lot of water with high TA?
    Quote Originally Posted by shep377
    Got the kit. Ran through tests twice to be sure I got it. What a great kit! My SWG pool of 20800Gal is new water about 2 weeks ago. I am running the pump 12h/day and the SWG at 75%.

    T/A 200 (60-80)
    Quote Originally Posted by shep377
    pH and TA adjustments:
    My TA has moved to 160 from 200+
    My pH is at 7.8-7.9
    I moved them both down with MA to a pH of 7.2 and continue to aerate (48h now)
    My impression is that his fill water must have high TA given the fact that right after filling he was measuring 200ppm+. I misread his latest posts and thought he was saying it had gone up but after re-reading I see that it went down to 160 with MA additions.
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: TF100 Arrived... asking advice on results

    Quote Originally Posted by UnderWaterVanya
    I misread his latest posts and thought he was saying it had gone up but after re-reading I see that it went down to 160 with MA additions.
    Thanks UnderWaterVanya...that is exactly what I did...misread it.

    Good...so TA is coming down with acid additions and thanks to the pHupinator...I was beginning to think it was a TAupinator
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: TF100 Arrived... asking advice on results

    Quote Originally Posted by linen
    Quote Originally Posted by UnderWaterVanya
    I misread his latest posts and thought he was saying it had gone up but after re-reading I see that it went down to 160 with MA additions.
    Thanks UnderWaterVanya...that is exactly what I did...misread it.
    I misread it too ... must be something in the sentence that plays a trick on our brains
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    UnderWaterVanya's Avatar
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    Re: TF100 Arrived... asking advice on results

    Quote Originally Posted by linen
    Good...so TA is coming down with acid additions and thanks to the pHupinator...I was beginning to think it was a TAupinator
    Welcome guys - Now if they would only invent the TADownater...
    Inlaws Pool Boy since June 14th 2012, Pool built ~ 2003, In-Ground, 16'x32'
    13500 gal, Vinyl Liner, Fiberglass Slide, TF-100 Test Kit, Hayward 210T
    sand filter, A.O. Smith 1.5HP main pump motor (C48L2N134C1),
    Hayward SuperPump (model ?), Polaris 380 & PB4 Booster Pump

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