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Thread: No chlorine in my pool to assist my ionizer nor am I suppose to

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    No chlorine in my pool to assist my ionizer nor am I suppose to

    Quote Originally Posted by Toomchfun
    My pool has an ionizer attached just before the return. Does any one know what it does?
    It does add copper and silver ions to your water to kill algae and bacteria. I add salt and keep it around 1500 ppm. This is done at start up each year. This helps the ionizer to be more efficient.

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Ionizer

    I can't see how adding salt helps the ionizer be more efficient. It's not very efficient in the best of circumstances and adding a little salt isn't going to help that at all.
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    Re: Ionizer

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler
    I can't see how adding salt helps the ionizer be more efficient. It's not very efficient in the best of circumstances and adding a little salt isn't going to help that at all.

    Pure water does not conduct electricity. I know it's hard to find pure H2O but by adding salt it makes it more conductive thus making it easier to produce ions.

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    Re: Ionizer

    It's pretty much accepted on this forum that an ionizer in an outdoor pool usually serves little purpose. You need chlorine to "assist" an ionizer anyway so why not simply use chlorine as your sanitizing source.....it's the best there is.
    Dave S.
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    Re: Ionizer

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    It's pretty much accepted on this forum that an ionizer in an outdoor pool usually serves little purpose. You need chlorine to "assist" an ionizer anyway so why not simply use chlorine as your sanitizing source.....it's the best there is.

    People on here only use what they know. I haven't heard of anybody here that has tried a ionizer for themselves to give it a fair shot. I have and i have been using it now for 5 seasons without any trouble. I have heavy use and it has been over 100 degrees here for 10 days in a row and still no trouble. I put no chlorine in my pool to assist my ionizer nor am I suppose to. My water has never been cloudy not even after i open it up in late spring. I read on here that a lot of people has trouble with there pools after using all the chemicals that you recommend and that it's to hard to maintain there pools but I on the other hand don't spend any time checking my pool I just injoy it.

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    Re: Ionizer

    I put no chlorine in my pool to assist my ionizer nor am I suppose to.
    Can you tell us what brand and model of ionizer you have? What size is your pool? Do you ever test your water? If so, for what?
    Dave S.
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    Re: Ionizer

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    I put no chlorine in my pool to assist my ionizer nor am I suppose to.
    Can you tell us what brand and model of ionizer you have? What size is your pool? Do you ever test your water? If so, for what?

    I have an ionizer like this one http://www.pool-ionizer.com/power-ionizer.php My pool is a 24ft round x 54in deep above ground. I've had this for 5 years and haven't tested it for the last 2 years exept for copper about 3 times a year and sodium chloride that I check right after opening. I would be glad to answer any more questions.

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    Re: Ionizer

    Posts you made in 2010 indicate you have the Permasalt ionizer, is that correct?
    This will be the third year that I have been using the Permasalt system and it has worked great. No hassle. Last year I used a regular shock and clarifier every two weeks instead of the Permasalt brand and it worked just as good and a lot cheaper too.
    That post indicates you regularly shock the pool using dichlor which is, of course, chlorine.
    Dave S.
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    Re: Ionizer

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    Posts you made in 2010 indicate you have the Permasalt ionizer, is that correct?
    This will be the third year that I have been using the Permasalt system and it has worked great. No hassle. Last year I used a regular shock and clarifier every two weeks instead of the Permasalt brand and it worked just as good and a lot cheaper too.
    That post indicates you regularly shock the pool using dichlor which is, of course, chlorine.
    Yes. The permasalt is the same as the power ionizer that I linked above with just a different face plate. I do shock every two weeks mainly because of this sight saying how bad i am for not spending all my time and money on chemicals. Not really sure that I need to though. When I have had my water checked in the past there has never been any chlorine show up. No chlorine, alk. at 100ppm, PH a little high at 7.8, copper barely detectable.

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    Re: Ionizer

    Quote Originally Posted by myvols2002
    I haven't heard of anybody here that has tried a ionizer for themselves to give it a fair shot.
    Then you haven't been reading the site very much. We have dozens of people who have gotten nasty stains from using ionizer based systems before they stopped using them, a couple of reports of damage to the pool from keeping PH too low based on ionizer manufacturer literature, and one positive report from someone who uses an ionizer to supplement chlorine to optimize water clarity for dive training classes.

    If your "copper barely detectable" report is correct then you have been win the lottery jackpot level lucky. Without either chlorine or copper in the water algae is essentially unavoidable, though there are the occasional one in a hundred million situations where it won't happen.

    There are also a number of strange inconsistencies in your story. First you say "I put no chlorine in my pool to assist my ionizer nor am I suppose to." but then you follow up with "I used a regular shock and clarifier", where the shock turns out to be chlorine.

    As far as "I put no chlorine in my pool to assist my ionizer nor am I suppose to.": Public pools are required by law to use an EPA listed sanitizer, because failing to do so is simply not safe. Those rules are strongly supported by the available science and by industry practice. If you want to take those risks in your private pool, that is your business, but advocating that others risk their lives and their families lives in that way is rather irresponsible.
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    Lershac's Avatar
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    Re: No chlorine in my pool to assist my ionizer nor am I sup

    Enjoy your pool, until someone gets In with a cold or worse, and gives everyone else in the pool their sickness.

    Ionizers don't kill the bad germs quickly enough to prevent that.
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    Re: No chlorine in my pool to assist my ionizer nor am I sup

    I will only add that every time this forum comes across someone advocating Permasalt, there always seems to be a portion of the truth withheld. You say you never use any chlorine ever but then when asked further it turns out that you do but just because this forum shames you into it?? I don't get that.

    The moderators here recently discovered that three Permasalt advocating members, coincidentally all shared the same IP address. That certainly doesn't look good, either.

    Two years ago, you proudly used the words Permasalt in your posts but are now apparently avoiding that word. That doesn't look good, either.

    My suggestion to Permasalt users is to enjoy your pool but do not try to advocate the system on this forum.....there is simply too much half-truth information being posted for you to have any credibility. You only detract from your credibility each time you post.

    (In case no one has noticed, the Mods run a pretty tight ship on this forum. We are the premier swimming pool forum on the net and we take that responsibility seriously enough to challenge any misinformation that appears here)
    Dave S.
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    Re: No chlorine in my pool to assist my ionizer nor am I sup

    What if you dip out a bucketful of water from one end of the pool, carry it to the porch, and sterilize it with ionization (or UV, or radiation), then take it back to the other end of the pool and pour it back in. Then you [s:98rytkkn]run[/s:98rytkkn], quickly walk (no running at the pool) back to the other end to start over. And you continue this over and over.

    Are you:
    A) - gradually sanitizing the pool's water?
    or
    B) - contaminating sterile water one bucket at a time?
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    Re: No chlorine in my pool to assist my ionizer nor am I sup

    At least the Power Ionizer adds both copper and silver ions so that fecal bacteria are killed, albeit slowly. Other systems that use copper only do not inhibit fecal bacteria at all. A comparison of kill times for chlorine, copper and silver are in this post. You can see that they aren't very effective against viruses and kill bacteria slowly, though generally fast enough to prevent uncontrolled bacterial growth. You need to carefully control the metal ion concentration and keep the pH lower to prevent metal staining. Such systems are not allowed by themselves in any commercial/public pool and in residential pools they do not, by themselves, oxidize bather waste so you still need an oxidizer (e.g. chlorine or MPS) or oxidizing system (e.g. ozone) for that. A whole lot of work and expense when chlorine alone is all that is needed.
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    Re: No chlorine in my pool to assist my ionizer nor am I sup

    I have the http://www.carefreeclearwater.com/produ ... #model1200 system and so far love it.The ionizer keeps my pool ion level at .2 ppm on minimum. I check my pH an TA weekly if we have rain and against to 7.2-7.4 pH and TA to 70 -90 ppm. I then add 2 3qt bottles of bleach during hot summer months. So far no problems. Cheap to maintain. I would guess I spend $12 per month in chemicals.

    Pool is 21,000 gallon 18'x36' outdoor in-ground pool. 1.5 Sta-rite pump and sand filter.

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    Re: No chlorine in my pool to assist my ionizer nor am I sup

    Welcome to TFP!

    The system you linked to at least puts out both copper and silver so handles fecal bacteria, albeit slowly. It's not great for viruses or protozoan oocysts, but for a residential pool this system isn't so bad from a disinfection point of view. You do, however, have to keep the pH lower and monitor the metal ion levels to make sure they don't get too high in order to prevent metal staining.

    The missing piece from the system is oxidation so your adding chlorine on occasion probably handles that assuming your residential pool is typically low bather-load.

    While not as disinfected as a pool with chlorine in it at all times, it's probably the next best "alternative", albeit at somewhat higher risk, for a residential low bather-load pool. If the goal was to reduce or eliminate chlorine, then it would be even better if it had a decent oxidizing (and supplemental disinfection) system such as boron-doped diamond electrodes or a properly scaled and functioning (i.e. corona discharge and drying the input air) ozonator.

    For commercial/public pools or other high bather-load situations, such systems cannot be used by themselves -- an EPA approved disinfectant, typically chlorine, is required.

    By the way, using chlorine in my 16,000 gallon pool costs me only $17 per month, but I have a mostly opaque cover so have a lower 1 ppm FC per day chlorine usage with the pool used for an hour or so every day (longer on weekends). Even with those with an uncovered pool having a more typical 2 ppm FC per day usage, a pool of your size would be roughly $35-40 per month so still not horribly expensive.
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    Re: No chlorine in my pool to assist my ionizer nor am I sup

    I bought my house with a hole (couldn't call it a pool), at the end of last summer. I try to use local businesses for everything so went to the local pool store, and he sold me a new liner, new filter, etc... all the mechanicals. He almost had me talked into the ionization, I was so afraid of maintaining a pool and this seemed like the easiest solution. Plus he listed tons of perks, cleaner water, no chlorine, my hair wouldn't be green, the list goes on. Luckily..... I found this forum before I pulled the trigger on ionization. (For that kind of up front money I had to research myself and not take his word for it). The minute I read it doesn't kill the herpes virus quickly I was done. I can just imagine swimming and along comes someone with a cold sore and I'm scrambling to get myself and loved ones out!

    I went with the basic chlorine and I'm loving it. I became a lifelong sponsor because the advice to avoid the ionization was well worth $30. So thanks! Especially to the one post I read with science, not just opinions.

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    Re: No chlorine in my pool to assist my ionizer nor am I sup

    Isn't "green hair" caused by the copper in algacides etc? Since I switched to BBB method (and now have a trouble-free, extremely low-maintenance sparkling pool) and stopped using algacides my blonde daughters haven't had a bit of green hair.

    I just found this thread via search when a fella at work kept harping about his father-in-law's ionizer and how I was wasting my time and money using chlorine (bleach, in my case). He poo-poo'd everybody here after I sent him a link to this site...ah well, different strokes.
    Take care,
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    Re: No chlorine in my pool to assist my ionizer nor am I sup

    I haven't used an algecide.... I bought one of the chemical testers and just keep all chemicals in the ranges.suggested in the pool school. Both my husband and I are blonde and have noticed no.changes.whatsoever.

    As little maintenance as I seem to do with my chlorine pool (chemical side only) I do not see.what an ionization advantage would be... just a huge initial cost from what I can tell. I'm so.glad I didn't.fall for the sales pitch!

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    Re: No chlorine in my pool to assist my ionizer nor am I sup

    My comment wasn't really directed at you Bobbie, it was more for those who are essentially dosing copper via ionizers...I'm interested to know if users of their pools are experiencing green hair, especially blondes. Since I stopped using algacides my blonde daughters have had no green hair whatsoever and my pool is sparkling clear with no algae at all since opening. Only shock required was at opening, nothing else but a few gallons of liquid bleach a week after balancing and borating the first two weeks. Gonna need a half gallon or so of muriatic to tweak the pH down soon, but that will probably do it for the rest of the season as far as chems go.

    Love the BBB...I was skeptical at first but absolutely convinced now.
    Take care,
    Ted
    38,000 gallon cement pond (simple, reliable, bulletproof) 10' dive tank/3.5' shallow end, Pentair Whisperflow 1hp, Pentair Clean-n-Clear 420sf, Pentair MiniMax heater, Maytronics Dolphin Supreme M5 slave-o-matic cleaner, Loop-Loc cover, a fountain thingy, diving board, slide, floaty lounge chair, a coupla pool noodles, squirt guns, etc etc...

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