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Thread: Can't get Sodium Hypochlorite

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    Can't get Sodium Hypochlorite

    I can't get Sodium Hypochlorite in my area here in Texas. I talked with Leslies and they say they don't carry it because it degrades too fast.... Lowes, Home Depot...none of them have it. He seemed to indicate there was also some kind of rule not to do it... Everyone had it in California when we lived there.

    In addition, our Calcium is very high in our tap water so I don't really want to use Cal H. as a shock...over the long run, its going to force me to have to dillute the pool pretty quickly to deal with the constant added Calcium. Laundry bleach has so much added junk in there that I prefer not to use it either unless I have no choice.

    What are other Pool owners in Texas doing to get around this?
    Or, any other suggestions?

  2. Back To Top    #2

    Join Date
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    I'm not sure why you say that laundry bleach has so much other "junk"....perhaps if you are looking at the scented ones, that is true, but plain/regular bleach is the same as Sodium Hypochlorite....the only difference is the concentration level (6% - ultra bleach, or 10% / 12.5% "chlorinating liquid"). You will be just fine going with plain old bleach.....no lavendar scent.
    28,000 gallon gunite/white plaster with 30ft RBB and 2ft sheer descent, 100 sq ft thermaledge, 50sq ft spa w/ 6 jets
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    I use plain old Wal-Mart ultra bleach 6% strength. Works great.

  4. Back To Top    #4

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    I just get the Wal-Mart stuff and my pool is crystal clear.

    I do wish that someone here in my part east Texas would carry it in bulk so that I could refill my containers. But so far I haven't been able to locate anyone.
    20k inground, Heyward Sand Filter, Compupool Salt Generator, Blue Pearl Robotic Cleaner

  5. Back To Top    #5
    Ok, so it sounds like everyone is using bleach. It was so convenient to have the stronger, pure, cheaper stuff that I am use to...I guess I'm spoiled. Is there some kind of law or something because they could easily store the strong stuff like they do the bleach, inside with the air conditioning?

  6. Back To Top    #6
    Guest
    Many localities do not allow sodium hypochlorite over 6% concentration. 6% sodium hypo is ultra bleach, 5.25% is regulaur bleach. I don't know where you got the idea that the 10% or 12.5% "pool store" sodium hypo is purer or has less 'junk' in it. That simply is not true. (I should know a bit about it, we sell a LOT of 12.5% liquid chlorine where I work!) In my locality it is less expensive than bleach but in other parts of the country bleach is actually less expensive. The main ADVANTAGE to bleach is that it will keep it's strength for a much longer time. The stronger 12.5% sodium hypo starts to lose much of it's strength in just a few weeks!

  7. Back To Top    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by waterbear
    I don't know where you got the idea that the 10% or 12.5% "pool store" sodium hypo is purer or has less 'junk' in it. That simply is not true. (I should know a bit about it, we sell a LOT of 12.5% liquid chlorine where I work!)
    Has anyone done a mass spec. or GC analysis on it and and an AA analysis? If so, please point me to the results and I'll take a look at the GC/MS chromatogram. Honestly---I don't really know. I understand that you have a lot of experience with this, but, if I could ask, how do you really know?....what exactly are you basing your knowledge on.....if its not an analytical testing result, then how do you really know.....? If it is, I would appreciate seeing it. Its 6% Sodium Hypochlorite, what exactly by percentage is the other 94%....ok, perhaps just water. Was the water deionized at the factory? I doubt it, since Calcium will help clean laundry. If not, am I putting in just as much Calcium from the bleach as just using standard shock?

    It is only something I have been told from 2 different pool builders and 2 different Leslies in two different states now. Perhaps they are just talking about the scented stuff and are trying to keep people straight with simplicities. But since laundry bleach is meant for laundry, I have no idea if even the plain stuff doesn't have surfactants or other chemicals in it to help it clean clothes. It seems logical they would put that stuff in there and since more than one person has told me there is extra stuff in there I don't want in my pool....I was partially siding with their experience and what they have told me and have been relunctant in the past except for emergencies.

    For all I really know, the bleach may actually be more pure than the stuff they bottle specifically for pools. Having analyzed water for about 20 years for environmental contaminants, I can tell you the stuff bottled up at the store is typically higher in organics than the stuff coming out of the tap.

  8. Back To Top    #8
    Guest
    How about info directly from source supplier (a MAJOR one) of liquid chlorine, who manufactures it in different strengths for different purposes and industries. Pool builders build pool, water chemistry, or chemistry in general, is not their specialty (It happens to be one of my strongpoints), and if you prefer the advice at Leslie's (we call that getting 'pool stored'.) then by all means go ahead and continue to by bleach from then and believe them when they tell you that bleach from other sources is not pure, it's a great marketing ploy on their part. If you've analyzed water for 20 years then run the bleach on a mass spec. (haven't used one of those in years, and yes, I have used them!). The MAIN "contaminant" in bleach OR liquid chlorine is going to be sodium chlorine (salt, in case you aren't sure what that is) which is a result of the manufacturing process. IF hard and and not deionized water is used and there is calcium present (there is in pool chlorine because I have access to the purity statements) it is an insignificant amount that will, in the grand scheme of things, have an impact on your pool chemistry. There is no way that any form of sodium hypochlorite is going to put as much calcium in your water as cal hypo....the chemical makeup is just NOT the same. Someone who has analyzed water for 20 years SHOULD understand enough chemistry to be aware of THAT!

  9. Back To Top    #9
    IkeRay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barco
    Quote Originally Posted by waterbear
    I don't know where you got the idea that the 10% or 12.5% "pool store" sodium hypo is purer or has less 'junk' in it. That simply is not true. (I should know a bit about it, we sell a LOT of 12.5% liquid chlorine where I work!)
    Has anyone done a mass spec. or GC analysis on it and and an AA analysis? If so, please point me to the results and I'll take a look at the GC/MS chromatogram. Honestly---I don't really know. I understand that you have a lot of experience with this, but, if I could ask, how do you really know?....what exactly are you basing your knowledge on.....if its not an analytical testing result, then how do you really know.....? If it is, I would appreciate seeing it. Its 6% Sodium Hypochlorite, what exactly by percentage is the other 94%....ok, perhaps just water. Was the water deionized at the factory? I doubt it, since Calcium will help clean laundry. If not, am I putting in just as much Calcium from the bleach as just using standard shock?

    It is only something I have been told from 2 different pool builders and 2 different Leslies in two different states now. Perhaps they are just talking about the scented stuff and are trying to keep people straight with simplicities. But since laundry bleach is meant for laundry, I have no idea if even the plain stuff doesn't have surfactants or other chemicals in it to help it clean clothes. It seems logical they would put that stuff in there and since more than one person has told me there is extra stuff in there I don't want in my pool....I was partially siding with their experience and what they have told me and have been relunctant in the past except for emergencies.

    For all I really know, the bleach may actually be more pure than the stuff they bottle specifically for pools. Having analyzed water for about 20 years for environmental contaminants, I can tell you the stuff bottled up at the store is typically higher in organics than the stuff coming out of the tap.

    like waterbear said, sorry to say it but you were getting 'pool stored.' they convinced you that bleach is different than what they're selling, other than the concentration levels, there is no difference.

    the breakdown, I believe, is 6% sodium hypochloride, 93% "salt" water (couldn't tell you which alkaline metal forms the salt, assuming NaCl). if your chlorine wasn't so high, I don't think that cal-hypo is as bad as dichlor/trichlor, since 65% cal-hypo only raises CH by 3/4 the FC (ie, 7ppm CH every 10ppm FC) and 0 CYA, but once your CH raises beyond your liking, you should switch over to sodium hypochloride or laundry bleach as you put it.
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  10. Back To Top    #10

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    There is no question that SOME bleaches contain extra chemicals you don't want in your pool such as scents or thickeners, but Clorox Regular bleach is (now) 6% and in fact if you look on the label it also says "5.7% Available Chlorine" because it is specifically designed to be OK for use IN POOLS. Most off-brand Ultra bleach is also 6% though is not labeled as such so is a bit of a risk. Bleach and chlorinating liquid do contain extra salt so for every 1 ppm FC that is added, it also adds 0.8 ppm salt (sodium chloride) and this is in addition to the 0.8 ppm of salt that is added from ALL sources of chlorine when the chlorine gets consumed and is converted to chloride. Technically, 6% bleach is (by weight) 6% Sodium Hypochlorite, 4.7% Sodium Choride (salt), about 0.2% Sodium Hydroxide (lye), and 89% water without any calcium or other substances. An old Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for Clorox Regular is shown here. I estimated the amount of lye based on the pH of 11.4 in the MSDS, but in any event it's negligible. Furthermore, only Clorox Regular bleach has an explicit usage for use of disinfecting drinking water as listed here and in the FAQ here.

    In fact, the following is an E-mail "letter" I received from Clorox when asking them some questions as I describe in this thread. I copy the letter below. Ignore the quantities and FC level they suggest -- they don't know about the FC/CYA relationship and are just following old NSPI recommendations (0.6 - 1 ppm FC is not enough chlorine; NSPI even changed this to 1-3 at some point). Also, we have since found out that Clorox Regular is 6% Sodium Hypochlorite by weight, as specified on the bottle, and that this is 5.7% Available Chlorine (by weight) also as specified on the bottle, and that this is equivalent to 6.17 Trade % (Available Chlorine by Volume) which is what should be used for volume measurements and in pool calculators and when comparing to chlorinating liquid which is generally specified in Trade %.
    [hr]
    September 13, 2006
    Mr. Richard Falk
    (address and reference number withheld for posting on this forum)

    Dear Mr. Falk,

    Thank you for contacting us about Clorox Bleach - Regular Scent. We always appreciate hearing from our consumers.

    For small wading pools that are emptied daily we recommend using 1/8 cup of Clorox Bleach - Regular Scent per 100 gallons of water.

    For larger above ground or in ground pools we would recommend the following for initial dosages of the product.

    5,000 gallons water - 3 cups bleach, 6,000 gallons - water 4 cups bleach, 8,000 gallons water - 5 cups bleach, 10,000 gallons water - 6 cups bleach, 15,000 gallons water - 10 cups bleach, 20,000 gallons water - 13 cups bleach, 25,000 gallons water - 17 cups bleach, 30,000 gallons water - 20 cups bleach, 35,000 gallons water - 23 cups bleach.

    Note: 2 cups = 1 pint, 4 cups = 1 quart, 16 cups = 1 gallon.

    One quart of Clorox Bleach - Regular Scent per 6,000 gallons of water will supply approximately 2 ppm (parts per million) available chlorine, but this may dissipate rather rapidly in new water depending on the general sanitation conditions of the pool. Repeat dosage as needed to obtain 0.6 to 1.0 ppm available chlorine. Use chlorine test strips to adjust to the desired concentration.

    In chlorinating a swimming pool, mix the required amount of Clorox Bleach - Regular Scent with 10 parts water and feed this solution through a chlorinator into the main water supply line to the pool. The feeding rate should be adjusted so the required quantity of this product will be added uniformly throughout the filling of the pool; or, if the water is circulated through a filter, the bleach should be added throughout one complete circulation. If the product cannot be fed into the main water supply line, mix 1/2 pint of the product with 5 gallons of water and scatter over a portion of the pool surface; repeat until the required amount of the product has been scattered over the entire surface of the pool.

    Check chlorine level in pool water at least daily with a pool testing set and add this product as needed to maintain 0.6 to 1.0 ppm available chlorine. One pint of Clorox Bleach - Regular Scent per 6,000 gallons of water will supply approximately 1.0 ppm available chlorine. Frequency of application of this dosage will vary depending on number of people using the pool, weather conditions (sunlight exposure) and general cleanliness of the pool area. Chlorine level for acid-stabilized pools should be maintained at 1.0 to 1.5 ppm available chlorine.

    The effectiveness of the chlorine is best when the pool water has a PH range of 7.2 to 7.6. The PH of the pool water should be checked daily using a pool PH testing set and adjustment as necessary.

    The regular use of this product, in the above proportions, in the swimming pool usually prevents the growth of algae in the water; however, if algae growth is causing the pool water to look cloudy and uninviting, it may be corrected by doubling the initial dosage of the product for a few treatments. This additional product should be added to the pool in the evening after the pool is out of use so the excess chlorine will be dissipated before the pool is used again.

    Avoid skin contact with undiluted product; is such contact occurs, rinse immediately with water. When added as recommended, this product has no deleterious effects on the eyes, nasal passages, or skin of people using the pool and will have no effect on swimming apparel.

    Enclosed is also the most current MSDS Document we have on this product. We hope you find this information helpful. You can find all of our MSDS Sheets on-line at http://www.thecloroxcompany.com/product ... index.html.

    I do apologize, this is the only information we have. I apologize, that I am unable to better assist you.

    Again, thank you for contacting us.

    Sincerely,



    Natasha Stevens
    Consumer Response Representative
    Consumer Services


    If you have additional questions or comments, please click here to respond to this email. [hr][hr][hr]
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