Okay, It looks like I will never finish my project!!! My Hayward filter pump has a connector for ground bonding. How do I do this? I don't have a metal rod any where near the pool in order to do this. How long the rod has to be? Does anybody knows the requirements for this in California?
Pool/filter pump bonding????
- Thread starter traxx2003
- Start date
need more information about your pool. is this a pump replacement?
in a nutshell, gunite pool frames require bonding to new construction code requirements. bascially your running a copper wire from the pool's rebar frame to your home ground point which is usally somewhere near electric or water meters. pump motor needs a copper wire from the pump connector to home ground point. I'm not familiar with California but most electrical inspection requirements are based on the current NEC code via city or county. grounding is a forum subject that gets beat to death.
in a nutshell, gunite pool frames require bonding to new construction code requirements. bascially your running a copper wire from the pool's rebar frame to your home ground point which is usally somewhere near electric or water meters. pump motor needs a copper wire from the pump connector to home ground point. I'm not familiar with California but most electrical inspection requirements are based on the current NEC code via city or county. grounding is a forum subject that gets beat to death.
Glock
0
Since this is in Above Ground Pools I am guessing this is an above ground pool? If so, you need only bury an 8awg bare copper wire "halo" around your pool. Bury it 18-24" away from the pool and about 4-6" deep. You need to attach it to the frame and legs in atleast 4 places around the pool, more if you can. Do not bond to plastic, only metal. Every seperate metal pool item (pump, frame, water, and stairs if metal need to be attached to this "halo" of copper wire.
You also need to bond the water which can be achieved by using a Burndy Waterbug in the skimmer or by using any number of metal plumbing options that come in contact with the water and have atleast 9 sq inches of contact surface. If you have a heater that uses metal pipe inside then you can bond that and it will handle the water bonding.
Then you need to run the "halo" of copper wire to the bonding lug on your pump and then coil the remaining few feet of wire and bury it 18-24" away from the bonded parts and 4-6" deep. No need for a rod as grounding and bonding are not the same.
I am in the process of doing this very thing to my new AGP. Hopefully today. I will get pics when I do this.
This video is by no means all inclusive but it gives you an idea of what you have in store for you. I would contact your city and ask if their requirements are published online or if they can give them to you. Its more of a PITA than it is hard work. Especially if you installed your own pool.
Bonding a pool video. You can fast forward to about 50 seconds when he starts talking bonding.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SK9u9MH ... re=related
You also need to bond the water which can be achieved by using a Burndy Waterbug in the skimmer or by using any number of metal plumbing options that come in contact with the water and have atleast 9 sq inches of contact surface. If you have a heater that uses metal pipe inside then you can bond that and it will handle the water bonding.
Then you need to run the "halo" of copper wire to the bonding lug on your pump and then coil the remaining few feet of wire and bury it 18-24" away from the bonded parts and 4-6" deep. No need for a rod as grounding and bonding are not the same.
I am in the process of doing this very thing to my new AGP. Hopefully today. I will get pics when I do this.
This video is by no means all inclusive but it gives you an idea of what you have in store for you. I would contact your city and ask if their requirements are published online or if they can give them to you. Its more of a PITA than it is hard work. Especially if you installed your own pool.
Bonding a pool video. You can fast forward to about 50 seconds when he starts talking bonding.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SK9u9MH ... re=related
Glock
0
Grounding and bonding are two entirely different things. Grounding is a conductive connection between an electrical device and the ground/neutral bar in the main panel. The sole purpose for this is to carry any current from a defective electrical circuit back to the main panel. without this, you could become the conductor should, say, a pump motor hoiusing become energized.
Bonding is a process of connecting all conductive surfaces around the pool together to eliminate voltage gradients between them. We commonly refer to these voltage gradients as potentials. Everything has a certain electrical potential. Unfortunatly they all exist at different levels. Where this becoms the problem is they all want to equal out. When you are standing on, say, a concrete deck, you and the deck are at one voltage potential. When you stick your toe in the water, you become the resistive conductor to another voltage potential. If there is a big enough difference in the potential you will feel the shock. however, if we bond all of these voltage potentials together with a conductive material such as a copper wire the voltage potentials even out thus eliminating the likelyhood that you will become the conductor.
if you have an above ground pool the pump motor bond connection, the pool frame, the water and any other conductive surface within 5' of the pool edge have to be bonded together. There is also a requirement that there be a conductod burried in the ground around the perimiter if the pool.
Some areas of the country have added more to the NEC requirements and some do not even enforce it. It would be best if you spoke to the authority in your area that oversees/inspects electrical instalations to see what they require. At minimum, I would at least install up to what the NEC requires.
Bonding is a process of connecting all conductive surfaces around the pool together to eliminate voltage gradients between them. We commonly refer to these voltage gradients as potentials. Everything has a certain electrical potential. Unfortunatly they all exist at different levels. Where this becoms the problem is they all want to equal out. When you are standing on, say, a concrete deck, you and the deck are at one voltage potential. When you stick your toe in the water, you become the resistive conductor to another voltage potential. If there is a big enough difference in the potential you will feel the shock. however, if we bond all of these voltage potentials together with a conductive material such as a copper wire the voltage potentials even out thus eliminating the likelyhood that you will become the conductor.
if you have an above ground pool the pump motor bond connection, the pool frame, the water and any other conductive surface within 5' of the pool edge have to be bonded together. There is also a requirement that there be a conductod burried in the ground around the perimiter if the pool.
Some areas of the country have added more to the NEC requirements and some do not even enforce it. It would be best if you spoke to the authority in your area that oversees/inspects electrical instalations to see what they require. At minimum, I would at least install up to what the NEC requires.
Thanks for all your replies! My pool is an Intex 23' round metal frame. Are any of you intex owners are doing this in your pools?
the reason may be best explained by reading the instructions on any new mechanical/electrical device purchase. the first few pages typically deal with safety warnings ie don't do this, don't do that or injury could result. with pools your dealing with water which is an excellent conductor of electricity. if everything is working no problem, if there's a short somewhere- current will may seek path of least resistance- water.
2011 NEC article 680.30 defines the bonding and grounding requirements for storable pools.
Storable pools are defined as all inflatable pools and "readily disassembled pools under 42" of water depth. It states that pools conforming to these specifications do not require bonding. However, the filter pump must be double insulated and an equipment grounding conductor (EGC) must be an integral part of the flexible power cord The 3' length does not apply to equipment listed for use with storable pools. UL lists portable filter pumps for use with storable pools having longer cords. All electrical equipment used with storable pools must be GFCI protected.
This does not mean you can't set up an equipotential bonding system for your pool. In fact it would be wise to do some sort of bond to equalize voltage potentials between the water, frame, pump and the surface around the pool.
Storable pools are defined as all inflatable pools and "readily disassembled pools under 42" of water depth. It states that pools conforming to these specifications do not require bonding. However, the filter pump must be double insulated and an equipment grounding conductor (EGC) must be an integral part of the flexible power cord The 3' length does not apply to equipment listed for use with storable pools. UL lists portable filter pumps for use with storable pools having longer cords. All electrical equipment used with storable pools must be GFCI protected.
This does not mean you can't set up an equipotential bonding system for your pool. In fact it would be wise to do some sort of bond to equalize voltage potentials between the water, frame, pump and the surface around the pool.
To answer your original question about the pump, the bonding screw on the pump is where the bonding wire from the pool is attached. You are asking about grounding. The grounding is done through the power cord on the pump. It has (or should have) a 3-prong plug. The 3rd prong is the ground. The receptacle you plug that cord into is grounded (or should be) back to the house panel which is in turn grounded to the ground rod. So... the metal parts on the pool (and the pool water) are bonded to the pump. the pump is grounded through the outlet back to the house. As for bonding the water, rather than spend 30 bucks on the waterbug or simliar, I bought a stainless 3" pipe nipple for 3 bucks and one of these for 3 bucks:
My ground clamp is copper though. I put the pipe nipple in on the return side to the pool then attached the clamp to the nipple and the bonding wire to the clamp. Oh, your pool pump circuit should be GFI protected, either from an outlet or a GFI breaker. The outlet is about 10 bucks cheaper and when it fails (it will eventually) it is easier to replace then a breaker.
My ground clamp is copper though. I put the pipe nipple in on the return side to the pool then attached the clamp to the nipple and the bonding wire to the clamp. Oh, your pool pump circuit should be GFI protected, either from an outlet or a GFI breaker. The outlet is about 10 bucks cheaper and when it fails (it will eventually) it is easier to replace then a breaker.
let me see if i undersrtand this
you have a clamp bolted to the top rim of your pool and the pipe is in the water being held by the clamp and the bonding wire attached to clamp also. any pics??
you have a clamp bolted to the top rim of your pool and the pipe is in the water being held by the clamp and the bonding wire attached to clamp also. any pics??
What he is doing is creating a Water Bond. He is using a short piece of stainless steel pipe in the return line for this. This will effectively bond the water to the metal structure of the pool thereby equaling out any voltage potentials that may exist. The NEC requirements for a water bond ask for a minimum of 9 square inches of surface contact with the water to achieve this. Some people use a section of pipe as crokett did and others use a device called a Waterbug that bolts inside the skimmer.
id like to see a pic of the pipe in the return line to get a better idea which option i should go with
Dear Glock,
Just one question for you:
Does the #8 solid wire need to be buried 4-6" into ground? It has to provide the equal potential and it will do this regardless of been buried or just laying on the gravel that I have around the pool.
This conductor does not serve as a ground, why do we need to bury it?
Thank you for you time,
Just one question for you:
Does the #8 solid wire need to be buried 4-6" into ground? It has to provide the equal potential and it will do this regardless of been buried or just laying on the gravel that I have around the pool.
This conductor does not serve as a ground, why do we need to bury it?
Thank you for you time,
Glock has not posted to this particular thread since 2012.
To answer your question, Yes, it should be buried 4-6" below grade and roughly 18" out from the pool edge. What you are doing with a bonding grid such as this is equalizing out the voltage gradients/potentials that exist. Ideally there should be 4 connection points equally spaced to the pool frame as well as a water bond and a bond to any equipment. This will bring all components of the pool to the same voltage potential.
To answer your question, Yes, it should be buried 4-6" below grade and roughly 18" out from the pool edge. What you are doing with a bonding grid such as this is equalizing out the voltage gradients/potentials that exist. Ideally there should be 4 connection points equally spaced to the pool frame as well as a water bond and a bond to any equipment. This will bring all components of the pool to the same voltage potential.
I only had to bond the pool to the pump. There is a connector on the pump and put #8 copper wire to the pump and connect the other end to the side wall connector screws( just one screw). That is what our municipal code called for...i didnt even burry it.
The NEC requires a 9 square inch connection to the water. A brass pipe (1.5" dia)about 2-3 inches long would provide that