Pool seems to WANT issues

[iSmile]

I have completed day 3 of balancing the water of our new pool per the Pool School's directions for setting up "seasonal" pools. Yesterday was our first day in the pool

Essentially, because my pH has rested at the 7.8 mark until today, the only thing I have done is added two pounds of dichlor for each of the last 3 nights. I can only assume my CYA levels are slowly rising as they should because it does not show on the test for about a week, right? The two pounds are not quite as much as the formula prescribed, but I figured I could make up the difference on a 5th evening, after which I will soon know if my CYA is right.

But I find myself wondering if there is more I should do. Here are test results on my fill water from 6/29:

FC = .5
pH = 7.8
TA = 260 (way high?!)
CYA =0
CH = 300

The morning after my first dichlor dose, on 7/1, I was surprised to see almost no change. The only thing that might be worth noting is a good thunderstorm struck us overnight, but I wouldn't think overnight rainfall would deplete all one's chlorine. Yet:

FC = 0
CC = .5
pH = 7.8
TA = 240 (some change, but possible new tester error?)
CYA =0 (I realize it will not show)
CH = did not test

So I shocked it with my 2 pounds of dichlor the night before our big opening, and this time my chlorine was at 9 the next morning. I figured with my low CYA and nonstop sunshine we would be okay to use it. With 9 kids in and out throughout the day I became curious and tested the chlorine. There was NONE by 1:30 pm! I wondered to myself, is this normal?

So day 3, last night, I added my 2 pounds dichlor and tested this morn before they hit the water:

FC = 7.5
CC = 0
pH = 7.8 - 8.2 (somewhere between the two, but def higher than any time before)
TA = did not test, but now wishing I had, seeing it is connected to pH
CYA = still not showing
CH = did not test

With much less use (only 4 kids for maybe more than an hour), at 2:00 this afternoon I had 0 chlorine again. Is this normal start-up chemistry? Why would my TA, so difficult to lower, be so high right from the tap? I read not to lower for the sake of lowering, so I guess I'm just obsessing with my numbers and wasting reagent. But today showed the pH elevated, and I am too unsure of my newbie testing skills to believe what I see wholeheartedly.

Does it matter that my pool is only chlorinated (albeit super chlorinated) half the time? It would seem fruitless to run out there with my bleach in the middle of the day, but should I anyway? And what do you enter in the pool calculator to adjust pH when the test kit jumps from 7.8 - 8.2? It seems such a minute difference except somewhere I read that a pH above 8 = no swimming. I don't want to start a pH yo-yo here at go.

So this is a very long-winded way to ask if, in my effort to avoid a troublesome pool, I am looking for more trouble than I actually have? :blah:

 

[linen]

I can only assume my CYA levels are slowly rising as they should because it does not show on the test for about a week, right?

CYA in dichlor shows up quickly, within hours after dissolved.

The two pounds are not quite as much as the formula prescribed, but I figured I could make up the difference on a 5th evening, after which I will soon know if my CYA is right.

Two pounds of dichlor will only bring you up to 6.9 ppm cya, so that will not show up on the test. Most people run at 50 ppm successfully.

I figured with my low CYA and nonstop sunshine we would be okay to use it. With 9 kids in and out throughout the day I became curious and tested the chlorine. There was NONE by 1:30 pm! I wondered to myself, is this normal?

Not surprising at all, sun and bather waste and other things are using up your chlorine.

Is this normal start-up chemistry? Why would my TA, so difficult to lower, be so high right from the tap?

This is not uncommon.

I read not to lower for the sake of lowering, so I guess I'm just obsessing with my numbers and wasting reagent. But today showed the pH elevated, and I am too unsure of my newbie testing skills to believe what I see wholeheartedly.

TA that high will require daily lowering of ph using acid. Over time your TA will lower as well.

Does it matter that my pool is only chlorinated (albeit super chlorinated) half the time?

Yes, you want FC in the pool at all times to prevent algae, bacteria, and viruses from thriving. How much total dichlor have you added. That will tell you how much cya you have in the pool, and that will determine what you minimum FC level should be.

It would seem fruitless to run out there with my bleach in the middle of the day, but should I anyway?

I would especially if you have swimmers.

And what do you enter in the pool calculator to adjust pH when the test kit jumps from 7.8 - 8.2? It seems such a minute difference except somewhere I read that a pH above 8 = no swimming. I don't want to start a pH yo-yo here at go.

When ph gets to 7.8, then add enough Muriatic acid to drop it to 7.2. You will repeat this probably daily.

 

[JasonLion]

6 lbs of dichlor in 17,600 gallons will have raised CYA by about 20. That is still low enough that it is difficult to measure and will still let the majority of your chlorine be lost to sunlight each day. It will take about 12 lbs of dichlor in total to raise CYA to 50.

Presumably by today you will still have a little FC left at the end of the day.

The high TA is driving up the PH, but dichlor is acidic, so those two are more or less canceling each other out.

 

[iSmile]

Thank you so very much, both of you I am glad I threw this out there, as there is clearly more I should be doing, adding bleach midday if needed, and messing with pH at 7.8, not waiting for it to go beyond.

Additionally, I thought I was aiming for a 30 on my CYA, which might have made tonight possibly my last night of dichlor, pending its appearance in that test tube. A shopping trip for more dichlor is in order. It seems it might have been simpler to have begun with stabilizer + bleach, rather than the dichlor. Why is this approach recommended? At least it is balancing out that TA these first few days.

I still do not know how to determine the amount of acid to add if I do not know the exact pH of the water. Is it best to conervatively use 7.8 as my "now" figure, even if it is certainly higher?

 

[jblizzle]

Additionally, I thought I was aiming for a 30 on my CYA, which might have made tonight possibly my last night of dichlor, pending its appearance in that test tube. A shopping trip for more dichlor is in order. It seems it might have been simpler to have begun with stabilizer + bleach, rather than the dichlor. Why is this approach recommended? At least it is balancing out that TA these first few days.

This method is generally only recommended for small temporary pools as they do not need many pounds of the stabilizer. Using the separate stabilizer and bleach is a little easier to keep track of.

I still do not know how to determine the amount of acid to add if I do not know the exact pH of the water. Is it best to conervatively use 7.8 as my "now" figure, even if it is certainly higher?

Using the poolcalculator.com will allow you to figure out how much acid to add for a required pH change (along with any other chemicals). Have you not started using it yet?

 

[linen]

Jbliz beat me, here is my take...

Additionally, I thought I was aiming for a 30 on my CYA, which might have made tonight possibly my last night of dichlor, pending its appearance in that test tube. A shopping trip for more dichlor is in order. It seems it might have been simpler to have begun with stabilizer + bleach, rather than the dichlor. Why is this approach recommended? At least it is balancing out that TA these first few days.

Those instructions are aimed more at small pop up pool users and not large pool users like you. Since the investment is less and the cost replacing water is less, the approach makes some sense. Also, many of these small pool users are not going to buy a test kit that costs more than the pool they are using.

I agree fully with you that the dichlor approach is not always the best even for small pool users, but many small pool users use so little of the stabilizer, that it can be easier for some to just use the dichlor to get cya. This is something we have discussed changing, but we wanted to keep those instructions very simple.

 

[iSmile]

Using the poolcalculator.com will allow you to figure out how much acid to add for a required pH change (along with any other chemicals). Have you not started using it yet?

Yes, sorry, that was meant to reference the pool calculator (aka my new BFF). I'll try again. When I tested the pH the color is brighter red than the 7.8 color but not quite as intense as the 8.2. There is no indicator for anything in between, so what do I call my NOW figure in the pool calculator? I gather my TARGET is 7.2.

I apologize for sounding critical about the dichlor. I meant that as a genuine question. I also suspected that was not intended for my pool, but didn't get a response to that concern in another thread (no doubt because I have been asking so much at once, sorry), but figured it could get me started anyway. Maybe I should make a suggestion for a new pool BBB start up how-to

Y'all have no idea how helpful you have been to me! I know I sound lost, but you have me confident enough to have taken the very PLUNGE that a year ago was far too high maintenance in my mind to endure

 

[jblizzle]

You do not want to lower the pH too much, so to be safe you can say start at 7.8 with a target of 7.3 or so (make sure your TA is also set correctly in the Now column). Then add the recommended amount, retest in a hour and adjust again if needed.

Eventually you will get a feeling for the amount you need to add.

 

[iSmile]

Thanks. I did it! And I positively HATED dealing with that muratic acid. The thought that I will likely be doing that every day has me groaning but 30 minutes later I had both my pH and my chlorine where I wanted woohoo!

 

[linen]

You'll get more efficient at handling it. Anything in particular that gave you trouble?

 

[iSmile]

I had to add a lot, and have only a 4 cup measuring cup for the job (on my shopping list now, though). My pool site is very much still a construction zone, and I basically felt chased by the fumes with nowhere to go. Thanks for the encouragement, though

 

[jblizzle]

It is not an exact science. I just pour out of the jug directly into the pool so you handle it less.

Posted with Tapatalk ... sorry if I sound short ... hate typing on phone

 

[BethyM]

I'm dealing with a TA that started around 550... Only had the pool up a week. I have been following this advice on handling the acid: http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread ... -s-pH.html I hope it's OK to post here, it's from the forum that BBB started from I think... not sure what the relationship is between the two but the biggest thing you'll find in there is they suggest NOT measuring.

Just guesstimate low, test, and add more as necessary. I've gotten to where I open the cap once it's sitting on the pool ledge, go straight to the water, pour at the water line and get the lid back on. Dunk the bottle in the pool after I'm done. Already added two and a half gallons. Not thrilled like you to read that this is a daily process for us BUT glad to know it will eventually get better. You may find this interesting too: http://poolsolutions.com/gd/lowering-sw ... -step.html

We bought a fountain from Amazon for $24 which just arrived today to start aerating in order to assist in lowering the TA.

 

[jblizzle]

Good advice.

You can actually lower the bottle mostly into the pool water so it is only poured a few inches with no splashing. This also makes the bottle light and easy to handle since it floats.

Posted with Tapatalk ... sorry if I sound short ... hate typing on phone

 

[duraleigh]

It seems it might have been simpler to have begun with stabilizer + bleach, rather than the dichlor.

I completely agree. Dichlor or any other chemical that has multiple effects on pool water is complicated and confusing when you are first getting started. Separating the addition of CYA and chlorine into two processes is much easier to follow

 

[iSmile]

Wow, Bethy, 550?! I just had no idea that tap water would be that far off ideal pool conditions. I honestly believed chlorine was going to be the big difference. Thank you for the links. I had actually read the advice on handling and storing the stuff a few weeks ago, before I had actually bought the pool. I had forgotten where it was, however, and kept trying to search TFP for the refresher. The timing was perfect to because my now open MA was sitting in my garage can you share more about your fountain?

Not having to measure will make a big difference. Thanks for giving me the go-ahead there, Jason I tend to take direction to the letter, especially when unsure LOL

 

[BethyM]

Sure! Glad you found the links helpful. We have HARD water here, they are working on a new water plant and I hope they include some additional water treatment as part of it!

This is the fountain we bought: http://www.amazon.com/Swimline-8598...&qid=1341407066&sr=8-2&keywords=pool+fountain Pool Store has them from the same line but of course not for the same price I happened to stumble on a lawn and garden coupon on amazon which is how I got it for $24. I would have ordered it at 30 to deal with the alkalinity! My goal is to bring TA down to 80-100 over the next few weeks if I can knowing that everytime I 'top off' I'm adding crazy hard water again. Hopefully, the adjustment to the body of water will be greater than the new water I need to add!

This thread has a picture that shows the fountain in the pool. http://www.troublefreepool.com/download/file.php?id=18768 That spray is on High speed. On low it was probably going 2.5 - 3 feet in the air. There's some adjustment you can make cover holes at the return piece, I may cover up a couple more so I can run it on low but for now we just wanted to get it going.

I know others have built cool fountains out of PVC and there's similar ones you can buy.

Have a great 4th!

 

[iSmile]

CYA in dichlor shows up quickly, within hours after dissolved.

I have now added, as of last night, 10 pounds of dichlor, which should have my CYA over 30. If it does show up within hours and is now high enough to show on the test, I am not reading this thing right. That black dot does not go away, I tell you LOL! I am certain the CYA needs to be higher because by early afternoon I have had zero chlorine each day. But if I can't tell how much I have, I can't tell how much more I need. Btw I want to abandon the dichlor plan b/c I've used up all I had bought and plan to just buy stabilizer instead.

 

[BethyM]

Jess: I would buy one container of CYA (stabilizer/conditioner). You can add about 1 pound of it which would bring you to 37 or so and see how that does. I put mine in a sock and used a long piece of velcro to attach it to the rail. It dissolved out of the sock within a day but didn't show up on the test right until I'd say 5-7 days later. They say once you add it you can dose as if it's there. Hopefully, you'll see that you're holding onto some of the chlorine.

You can hang onto the rest of the CYA in case you decide you want to go higher or as you need to replace it with back washing. I don't expect that to be often but am glad to have a pound in the garage just in case.

Since the dichlor is gone, there is no need to buy more. It is quite nice once the chlorine starts staying in the pool a bit!

Hope you had a great 4th

 

[linen]

What was the name and brand of the dichlor? What is the listed percentage of dichlor?

It could be that is was dichlor combined with other stuff so you had added less dichlor then you thought.