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Thread: TA Level

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    TA Level

    Hi guys,
    Just had my pool open today and am a bit confused with some of the recommended levels. The biggest questions is regarding TA, I have a 34,000 gallon salt water pool with gunite finish. According to this site the recommended level is 60-80, the shop who tested the water says 80-150 while most other sites state 80-120 (In addition my filter manual also states 80-120). I am not really sure how much Baking Soda to add at this point. It tested at 36ppm. Shop recommended 40lbs. I already added 24 lbs before thinking to check here and I see I should be adding about 22lbs to bring it to 80? The real questions is what my goal should be.
    34000 Gallon Salt Water Pool, Jandy AquaPure 1400 SWG, Jandy Del60 Filter, Polaris 380 Cleaner

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: TA Level

    Welcome to TFP!!!

    The lower TA recommendation found here is due to the fact that SWG tend to make the pH rise. With the lower TA, the pH will not rise as fast (or possibly will stabilize).

    You need to decide whose advice you are going to follow, as listening to us (no skin in the game) and the pool store (looking to make $) will quickly get you confused.

    EDIT: I would certainly not add any more than the 24lbs you already added.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: TA Level

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    Welcome to TFP!!!

    The lower TA recommendation found here is due to the fact that SWG tend to make the pH rise. With the lower TA, the pH will not rise as fast (or possibly will stabilize).

    You need to decide whose advice you are going to follow, as listening to us (no skin in the game) and the pool store (looking to make $) will quickly get you confused.

    EDIT: I would certainly not add any more than the 24lbs you already added.
    Thanks jblizzle, I guess I will not be adding any more my filter manual also states 80-120, is it ok if I do not follow that exactly (even thought I probably am at 80 anywas already )? I am actually not completely new here. I signed up last year but for the life of me can not remember my ID and was not able to reset my pw. Another quick question, they told me to just add the baking soda and muriatic acid and follow the salt, stabiliser and calcium tomorrow, is it ok if I start adding this stuff today given I will not be home all day tomorrow?
    34000 Gallon Salt Water Pool, Jandy AquaPure 1400 SWG, Jandy Del60 Filter, Polaris 380 Cleaner

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    Re: TA Level

    It's fine to add stuff sequentially, just not simultaneously.

    How did you get a TA of 36? That sounds suspiciously like a digital test strip result and I wouldn't trust that result for 2 seconds.

    They are usually worth about as much as the paper on which they are printed....sorry

    80ppm is a very good target for your TA.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: TA Level

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    It's fine to add stuff sequentially, just not simultaneously.

    How did you get a TA of 36? That sounds suspiciously like a digital test strip result and I wouldn't trust that result for 2 seconds.

    They are usually worth about as much as the paper on which they are printed....sorry

    80ppm is a very good target for your TA.
    I think you are right but the shop tested so who knows. I think I will re-test tomorrow and go by that as I got one of the TFT test kits last year, just no salt tester included. Would it be ok to add the salt before going to bed tonight?
    34000 Gallon Salt Water Pool, Jandy AquaPure 1400 SWG, Jandy Del60 Filter, Polaris 380 Cleaner

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    Re: TA Level

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    Welcome to TFP!!!

    The lower TA recommendation found here is due to the fact that SWG tend to make the pH rise. With the lower TA, the pH will not rise as fast (or possibly will stabilize).

    You need to decide whose advice you are going to follow, as listening to us (no skin in the game) and the pool store (looking to make $) will quickly get you confused.

    EDIT: I would certainly not add any more than the 24lbs you already added.
    jb I get your point with them wanting money but actually they recommended a lot less of some of the other chemicals then what pool school does, for example they suggested to add 7lbs of stabilizer, they show 15ppm but their range is wide 30-120, I get 17lbs to bring it up to 75. Also they suggest 38lbs of Calcium, teste 110ppm and range of 175-300, to bring it to 300 as suggested here I come up with 60lbs of calcium. Am I doing this right ?
    34000 Gallon Salt Water Pool, Jandy AquaPure 1400 SWG, Jandy Del60 Filter, Polaris 380 Cleaner

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    Re: TA Level

    Would it be ok to add the salt before going to bed tonight?
    Yes, push it around with a push broom...it dissolves readily
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: TA Level

    Before you adjust your cya, make sure you do your own test with the TF-100 kit. Many many times the pool stores are wrong on this one and you do not want to add more cya than you need since...easy add but drain/refill to remove.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: TA Level

    Just because they happened to recommend less chemicals this time around, does not mean they are actually "correct". As is evidenced by there huge range of acceptable CYA numbers.

    I agree, that you should really do your own tests before you start adding anything else.

    BTW: it looks like you are using the poolcalculator correctly as I am seeing the same weights as you are. One number of interest (for the non-noob) is the CSI as shown on the bottom. Ideally you would want to keep that slightly negative. If it gets too +, you risk scaling, If it gets too -, you risk plaster /equipment damage. Put all your numbers in and you can see how any adjustments affect your CSI.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: TA Level

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    Just because they happened to recommend less chemicals this time around, does not mean they are actually "correct". As is evidenced by there huge range of acceptable CYA numbers.

    I agree, that you should really do your own tests before you start adding anything else.

    BTW: it looks like you are using the poolcalculator correctly as I am seeing the same weights as you are. One number of interest (for the non-noob) is the CSI as shown on the bottom. Ideally you would want to keep that slightly negative. If it gets too +, you risk scaling, If it gets too -, you risk plaster /equipment damage. Put all your numbers in and you can see how any adjustments affect your CSI.
    I am pretty sure I am a noob then cuz I have no idea what CSI you are talking about and certainly see nothing on the bottom errrr, ok i do see it on the poolcalculator page but I have no idea how to test for this? Do I need to hire a Crime Scene Investigator ??
    34000 Gallon Salt Water Pool, Jandy AquaPure 1400 SWG, Jandy Del60 Filter, Polaris 380 Cleaner

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    Re: TA Level

    Just fill in all of the fields on the Now column and the Pool Calculator will display the CSI associated with those numbers towards the bottom of the column.

    Nearly everyone can simply ignore CSI, and just follow our recommended levels table. The only reason you would normally even look at CSI is if there is absolutely no way you can get CH below 400. For very high CH levels, keeping track of CSI is more or less required.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: TA Level

    CSI is not tested for ... it is calculated based on your inputs.

    Maybe you should just ignore it for now. If you keep everything in the recommended ranges, your CSI should be fine.

    Play with some numbers and you can see how it changes. The reason I brought it up is that for a SWG the pH rises, so we use lower TA to keep it stable, but this can make the CSI pretty negative, so higher CH can actually help. pH is a major driver and you can see in the calculator, when it gets up over 8.0, the CSI generally becomes pretty +
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: TA Level

    I also would not worry about csi so much now, but I would worry about getting an appropriate test kit first (see link in my sig...I like the TF-100), then you/we can worry about csi. You need to know an accurate cya level to know how much drain/refill you need to do first.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: TA Level

    linen, I do have a good test kit, possibly the one you mention, got it last year due to recommendations on this site. I have another problem though, when they tested my water they came up with salt at 1300, my salt meter also showed 1.3 so I imagine it should have been accurate. I added the recommended 14 bags of salt (40lbs bags) and checked the salinity just now it is 5.3 which is way over the 3.2 I was going for with pool calculator. Is something wrong or possibly its just due to fact some water might still be more salty as it has not completed mixed?
    34000 Gallon Salt Water Pool, Jandy AquaPure 1400 SWG, Jandy Del60 Filter, Polaris 380 Cleaner

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: TA Level

    How long has the water been circulating? It needs a good 24hours before you should turn on the SWG.

    If you got the kit, post up some numbers ... don't keep us guessing
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: TA Level

    Quote Originally Posted by Rafalski
    linen, I do have a good test kit, possibly the one you mention, got it last year due to recommendations on this site. I have another problem though, when they tested my water they came up with salt at 1300, my salt meter also showed 1.3 so I imagine it should have been accurate. I added the recommended 14 bags of salt (40lbs bags) and checked the salinity just now it is 5.3 which is way over the 3.2 I was going for with pool calculator. Is something wrong or possibly its just due to fact some water might still be more salty as it has not completed mixed?
    Sorry Rafalski, I was getting threads mixed up Ignore my comments above about high cya and having to drain/refill.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: TA Level

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    How long has the water been circulating? It needs a good 24hours before you should turn on the SWG.

    If you got the kit, post up some numbers ... don't keep us guessing
    it has been circulating since about 9AM this morning I guess, I believe so has the SWG but I didnt turn it on, they pool guys who opened must have. Actually how do I even turn it off? I do not see any off button on it. It actually has a light on for Service which I just noticed which makes me worried.
    34000 Gallon Salt Water Pool, Jandy AquaPure 1400 SWG, Jandy Del60 Filter, Polaris 380 Cleaner

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: TA Level

    Which SWG do you have? You should turn it off or unplug it until the water has mixed for 24 hours.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: TA Level

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    Which SWG do you have? You should turn it off or unplug it until the water has mixed for 24 hours.
    I have the Jandy AquaPure 1400, there is no way to turn it off or unplug it from what I can see, all hardwired going undeground. Only way would be to turn the breaker off but no clue which one it is and more then likely it would turn off the filter as well. Could the service light be on just because it was turned on too early?
    34000 Gallon Salt Water Pool, Jandy AquaPure 1400 SWG, Jandy Del60 Filter, Polaris 380 Cleaner

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: TA Level

    Here is a manual:
    http://www.zodiacpoolsystems.com/Produc ... 67500.ashx

    Is there a 3 digit code associated with the service light?

    May want to see if pushing the down arrow can set it to 0.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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