Awwww Crud.... lightning?

[peril]

Hi guys,

I just got back from a week of vacation to a situation. The Intelliflo, and the pb4-60 I installed in the past month are not turning on. When I got to the house - the breaker was tripped, not sure WTF there - but after checking both legs of the 220, they are hot to both the intelliflo, and the pb4-60.

(So both legs hot - wiring checks out to the leg in front of the motor whips- will pull the power panel on the pumps and check voltage there; I expect to find everything hot to the power terminal inside the motors.)

Are there any fuses in these things that could blow with a lightning strike? I suspected a bad ground, and just retwisted them - (gonna look at that REAL close again - but having both brand new pumps dead to the world after less than a month is just plain sad.)

Am I missing something basic here?

--Adrian

 

[peril]

Re: Awwww ****.... lightning?

the grounds / feeds are good back to the power feeds on the pumps. I have NOT a CLUE what caused them both to die aside from the possibility of a lightning strike.

This is not a good feeling .

Any ideas guys?

--Adrian

 

[JasonLion]

Re: Awwww ****.... lightning?

Lightning could take out an IntelliFlo, but a pb4-60 will rarely be affected. I suspect power isn't actually getting to them somehow.

 

[peril]

Re: Awwww ****.... lightning?

Power lugs are hot on both pumps, and the grounds checked out as good. (i.e. - the voltage wrt to the ground was good in on each of the power lugs.)

I"ll post more tommorow on this - only got to do the basics tonight before it got dark.

--Adrian

 

[CraigMW]

Re: Awwww ****.... lightning?

Any evidence of arcing?

 

[Ohm_Boy]

Re: Awwww ****.... lightning?

Make sure you check not only from each power lug to ground/neutral, but actually check for 220V from lug-to-lug.

 

[peril]

Re: Awwww ****.... lightning?

OHM boy / Jason - you are both good at this. I did check each outside and they individually check out 120 - but when I check them lug to lug ... 16V. (Actually - I did this test at the breaker first - and I noticed something wasn't right with just checking the voltage between the breaker posts.)

figured out (2) things

1) the breaker died (it was REALLY rattly inside.), after pulling the wires I was getting 16V across the breaker, but across the (2) legs in the box - was getting 237 (but each side of the breaker leg (and the outside wire) checked out to 120 - which was what tripped me up last night.)
2) I wired a temporary harness to the new breaker in the garage- red / black , neutral, and then attached the replacement intelliflo I picked up - (figuring it was going to end up under my insurance deductible no matter what.)

The replacement intelliflo worked fine, then I tried the original intelliflow - (and my GOD it worked) with temporary harness in the garage.

jese am I happy that its not the pump.

What is the code for rerunning a wire? It's about 100ft - so I figure 10G, can I use the outdoor insulated stuff if I bury it? (And how far down do I have to bury it.) I feel like I should rerun the conduit into the intermatic box after I have this stuff buried.

I'm going to do a temp run of the 10 gauge outdoor stuff on top of the ground to get the pumps moving again, and then rent a trencher.

thanks so much for taking the time to read the saga.

--Adrian

 

[scooperhsd]

Re: Awwww ****.... lightning?

You need to check with your local Code enforcement agency and possibly a professional electrician.

However - 10 GA UF3 is the appropriate cable for what you're looking to do. Per my local code authority - naked cable needs to be buried a minimum of 24 inches, 18 inches if it is in conduit. For conduit - it should probably be THHN / THHW 10 GA, with 4 cables (1 ground, 1 one neutral/i phase, and 2 cables for the speed control (maybe only 3 wires for your Intelliflo).

 

[peril]

Re: Awwww ****.... lightning?

It feels so good to see the pumps turning over again. WHEW.

I ran about 70 feet of the uf3 to a breaker panel in the box - was concerned about the ground wire being bare - but as I thought it thru - I wasn't all that concerned. This is powering the pb4 / intelliflo, and both of them are aok with the 3 wire setups.

Will put it in watertight conduit and bury to 18" in the next week or so.

Thanks again.

 

[Ohm_Boy]

Re: Awwww ****.... lightning?

Glad to hear it's all good again.

So.. now you wanna know WHY you read 120V on each leg to ground when one leg was obviously dead, huh? It's because the voltage from one breaker travels to the motor, through the motor windings, and back on the other wire, where it can show via meter to have 120v on it. Problem is, it's the same 120v that's on the other wire, so there is no voltage potential (lug-to-lug) for the motor. Within a few volts anyway, depending on the exact failure.

Lesson: Always check for full voltage across the line.

Protip: This can happen when a double-pole breaker "kinda" trips, and only one side is actually off.

 

[peril]

Re: Awwww ****.... lightning?

Thanks a lot ohm boy - it was so obvious afterwards what was going on - but in the heat of the troubleshooting moment (i.e. coming back 1 hour before sunset from a 12 hours vacation drive) - my brain didn't process it.

Really appreciate your help.

There needs to be a "SEND A BEER" button on the ole interweb, cause I would click it to you guys.

--Adrian