Magnolia Trees-Leaves = High Phosphate levels?

[bacpck]

Here is the background, my brother in law just purchased a new home with a gunite IG pool.

I do not have all of the information on the pool but this is what i know.

16' x 32' with a L and a Deepend (not sure on the size) right around 30,000 gallons according to pool store. Sand filter, in line chlorinator, non-working heater.

He has been told that his phosphate levels are through the roof because of Magnolia leaves and that this is a common problem around the Atlanta, GA area.

I have pointed him to this site but I am not sure he is not allready caught in the web of the pool store.

The pool and deck actually have several issues that are going to have to be addressed over the next few years.
1. Concrete poured solid (no expansion joints at all) from pool coping to the house. This has caused some deck damage as well as damage to the coping in places and apparently the pool itself.
2. Heater does not work and the pool is shaded most of the day, coldest pool in Atlanta are the claims.

I have told him that he needs to have some relief joints put into that deck ASAP as it is pushing on the pool and his foundation. The big issue for me is the phosphates, he is being told he needs to attempt to keep them under control with chemicals (yea right just need to keep the FC/CYA levels accurate and keep the algae from starting). He is also being told there he will have to drain and refill his pool every few years to attempt to control the phosphates, is this true? He told me that his phosphates are as high as they can be, almost off the charts. I have asked for a copy of the analysis that the pool store did to get a handle on the situation.

Does he need to drain his pool every few years to replace the water? I know that the pool will have to be drained at some point as it needs Gunite work and the coping needs to be cut and repaired/replaced.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this matter? Does anyone live in the Atlanta area that can make some suggestions or let me know if this is really an issue.

I want the niece and on the way nephew to have a great pool to swim in. I am barely keeping them on board with the pool as they have discussed having it filled in a few times (quoted $10,000 to fill in pool). I would think they should have plenty of money to repair and do upkeep on the pool, if i can help them get it under control.

Any help or suggestions would be aprreciated, I am afraid that he is going to get taken for a ride by his pool store. He has also been told that he must have a pool contractor replace the marble coping as it would require a special diamond blade to cut.

 

[Buford]

Your brother in law has been introduced to pool stores in Atlanta, most likely the national chain. Those fools told me three years ago to remove my dogwoods, magnolias and hostas (which are still here) because my phosphate levels were over 5000 ppb. I have done nothing with my phosphates (other than increase them with metal sequesterants) and have no algae problems. I suggest the standard line, a good test kit (TF) and pool school. Have him pay special attention to algae hiding places, like light niches and ladders and avoid the high margin snake oyl that will only help, not cure.

So far as pool contractors go, even the tv stations are fed up with them. Pools seem to be a haven for fly by night operators, so check references and do appropriate research. If we know what part of town he lives, then maybe someone will steer him to a good firm (they do exist).

 

[bacpck]

I believe that he lives in Sandy Springs or very close to that area.

 

[Buford]

Sorry, I don't know of any outfits in that general area, I am west (and have not used a contractor), he is more or less north central. Hopefully, someone with experience will weigh in on your issues and/or make a recommendation of a good company. You might try changing the title or posting a question in the construction (or wherever appropriate) area. There seems to be many users in the industry and usually quick to help.

I failed to address water changing. Unless there is a problem with high cya or calcium, I would think not, mine has not been drained in 15 years, when the last plaster job was done. I find it amusing, the gals at the pool store were trying to sell me a phosphonic sequesterant and phos free, which seemed to be an exercise in futility, and advised removing landscaping that was older than the pool store staff, for a pool that did not have an algae problem. My uneducated guess is the suggested drain and refill is to reduce cya so the chlorine will work.

My pool is 89 degrees, but I do get a lot of sun. Early in the season, a solar cover added (actually retained) a good bit of heat. I do not have a heater. You might post more details of the heater problems and someone might have a solution. My understanding is, if you use a heater, you want a solar cover to reduce heat loss, which might be his first step to see if that heats up the pool sufficiently.

 

[Bama Rambler]

As long as the Magnolia debris isn't left in the pool long enough to decay it won't raise the phosphates enough to worry about and even high phosphates aren't a problem as long as you keep the FC where it should be, which you should be doing anyway.

Given the amount of rain that area gets I can't imagine it ever building up enough to become a problem.

 

[bacpck]

Well he went to Leslie's to test and things are for sure off with the test results I am not trusting them at all.

Two tests

1st test, FC and TAC 0, PH 7.4, TA 70, CYA 100, CH 190, TDS 500 and Phosphates 1500 recommended 16lbs of Alkalinity up, 6lbs of Powder Plus, 32 ounces of Algae Control and 52oz of Phosfree


2nd test, FC and TAC 0, PH 7.4, TA 120 (overshot the TA), CYA 100, CH170 , TDS 550 and Phosphates 2500 (what how did this happen) the test results make no sense why would his CH go down, phosphates go up by over 60% and the over shot the TA. recommended 56 pounds of hardness plus, 3-4 pounds of Powder Plus


They have him on the yoyo allready, i must save him from the evil Leslie's Pool store arggghhhh. He has a floating chlorinator and the pucks were not dissolving, they have him putting them directly in the skimmer basket at the moment (he knows this is a no no). I have told him that we need to get his CYA under control and keep the pool chlorinated and we will move forward from their.

He loved my water and wants to add borates and possibly salt to his pool but i would like to get it under control first. If his PH is stable should I be worried about the TA?

 

[Bama Rambler]

His TA was good at 70. 120 is ok with pucks but hopefully he's going to stop using those soon.

The first thing he needs to do is drain enough to get the CYA down to something reasonable.

If it's a plaster pool his CH needs to come up, and if he added 56 lbs of calcium he added about twice as much as he needed to.

He needs to quit worrying about phosphates. even if they were 2500 they don't matter.

 

[Buford]

It looks like he needs chlorine, providing the test results are in the neighborhood of accurate. The cya is high (as reported), and for a gunite pool, he should be around or above 250ppm of ch. The TA is low, but can wait. He needs to get a good test kit and not holding chlorine sounds like algae (hence the rise in phosphates), probably needs to do the shocking process.

Yep, he is at the revenue production mill. If he likes parting with his money, and not receive value, he can send it to you. His phosphates are not "off the charts" at 2500, mine are, since the color is way darker than the comparator will go (5000). I cannot recall the original author, but he said something like this: "using phosphate removers is like moving all your property to a vault to prevent a robbery, it will work, it is troublesome and is expensive.." Chlorine has kept my pool open since it was built in the sixties by my grandparents, with very little trouble from algae. My view is, this is just a way to turn a $6 chlorine sale into a $70 monthly maintenance program. I think 50 years speaks for itself. The methods recommended here on TFP work so well because they have been around so long, proven time and again.

The tests are wildly different because a minimum wage retail worker does not exercise the care an owner will and the water will degrade during transport (heat, light and time). He needs to test his own water with a proper kit and read pool school (pls see Bama's sig). My experience is the store's tests and advice are about as useful as a football bat. YMWV

WELL, Bama beat me to it, but I'll post anyway, even if it is a lot of repeat. I need to remember to hit "submit"