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Thread: Still Cloudy -- Kids Ready to Move Out

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    Still Cloudy -- Kids Ready to Move Out

    Hello ...I am losing my cool Pool Patience. Been testing, reading, testing and reading trying to clear up my water--without success .

    A little history: Installed our AG last July, after messing around with leveling etc for about a year due to (at that time) rain, then rock hard dirt, farming, schedules, you name it. We purchased our pool used from someone that meticulously disassembled it (thankfully) but never actually installed it themselves. The pool previously had been used approx 2-3 years. We installed a new liner, filled with well water (semi-soft with little to no mineral build-up), added bleach according to the BBB method, purchased my TF100 test kit and proceeded to have sparkly clear water the rest of the summer . I was soo impressed with myself.....until this summer....

    Prior to putting the cover on last fall, I brushed, vacuumed, brought to shock level and then....added some hth Algae Guard (Copper??) as I wasn't sure how the water would fair over the winter. The last week of May, removed cover and water was very clear (surprised as we had an unusually warm winter) had some silt (from all the wind), 5 to 6 leaves and a few "questionable" areas. After hooking everything up and adding fill water, I unfortunately proceeded to vacuum without vacuuming to waste or testing . My vacuum wasn't working too well and a light bulb turned on (1/2 way anyhow) Vacuum to waste. I then brushed as good as I could, and over the next 8 hours I arbitrarily added 3-182oz bottles of bleach, more water, 1-16oz pkg "shock"--dissolved--since I figured I would need the CYA--wouldn't want to test or anything. About 3 days later, due to a hectic schedule, I finally tested with these results: FC: .5 CC: 0 (the water barely turned pink when putting granules in, added only one drop to clear), CYA 20 the water at this time was cloudy green/blue and could only see down about a foot. I was only running the pump about 8 hours total a day--wouldn't want to be too hard on it and wasn't brushing every single day. I was testing a couple times a day, but I was only keeping my shock level at 10ppm--wouldn't want to follow directions. I finally decided to take a step back and re-read, several times, research and continue to tell my kids "Hopefully soon ". I turned the pump on 24/7, brought the shock level up to what the pool calc advised based on the CYA level, and was brushing or vacuuming every day. After a couple of days the water did start to clear up, but not completely. I have yet to have a successful over-night test. The filter pressure seems to be fine other than when I need to backwash--I do wonder if I have enough sand though, it's a little over 1/2 full--the sand ending up in the pool is from the yard--nothing by the return. Here are some of my recent results:

    6-24: 8:00 a.m: FC: 14.5 CC: 0 Added 28 oz bleach--On a whim tested the CH: 2 drops x 10 = 20
    I decided at lunch to start testing hourly
    1:00 p.m. FC: 12, CC: >.5 (barely pink--not even a full drop to change back) added 114 oz bleach
    2:00 p.m. FC: 14.5, CC: 0 added 43 oz (according to pool calc CYA level shows shock should be 16ppm)
    3:00 p.m. FC: 15.5, CC: >.5 added 28 oz
    4:00 p.m. FC: 15.5, CC: >.5 added 28 oz
    Brushed
    5:00 p.m. FC: 17, CC: >.5 no add
    6:00 p.m. FC: 16.5, CC: >.5, CYA: 40 no add (pool calc showed 16 for CYA level)
    9:00 p.m. FC: 19

    6-25 (only able to test Brk/Dinner--work day)
    6:00 a.m. FC: 17, CC: .5
    Had DH add 56 oz and both 10:00 and 2:00 to to be sure the levels stayed up and it's a good thing because:
    6:00 p.m. FC: 12 , CC: 0 added 85oz bleach
    Vac/Brushed/backwashed and added water
    10:00 p.m. FC: 16, CC: 0, Tested PH: aprx 8.2 didn't add anything for PH or FC, CYA: 30--Pool calc showed shock level now to be 13??

    6-26
    6:00 a.m. FC: 14.5, CC: >.5
    1:00 p.m. FC: 10, CC: 0 added 85 oz bleach

    From about 6-14 my shock level was inbetween 12 and 16 (not like the 10 I initially started with) but I wasn't testing as much either.

    I then proceeded to finish typing this somewhat lengthy post (never have posted on anything on any forum before --save your work) that I had started earlier in the day not realizing I was no longer logged on and therefore lost everything when I went to submit--(may I have been inhaling too much bleach) and haven't tested since...will head out in a few to test/brush.

    A few other notes: We have had very high temps the past few days 105+ (really soon kids really) with a lot of wind. Speaking of wind this year we had an higher than usual amount of wind from the south east v.s. our normal prevailing winds from the north west so I don't think the skimmer, being in the location it is, is as efficient as it could be. I have never had a CC: reading of more than 2 and that was last summer after a large party. The CC hasn't been over 1.5 this year. I have been very careful when testing and I have only added to my pool this year: Bleach, 1 pkt powdered "Shock"--(this stuff came with the pool), Cyanuric Acid, Mur. Acid-very little. I have restrained from adding any clarifier...although it looks very tempting . The water continues to look blue/green but you can see all but the bottom rung of the ladder (which by the way I was sure was the culprit and promptly assaulted it with bleach).

    Sorry for making this long post longer. Any help is appreciated. My dh told me the other day with all my testing skills , I should apply for a job at the water treatment facility in town--yuck.

    Juli
    BBB Method * 13,700 Gal-16x32x4 Oval AG * Doughboy Power Pak II 1hp Pump * 1900 Media Master Sand Filter *
    *Hot/Sunny/Windy--5,200 Elevation w/ Very Little Rain *

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    Administrator Leebo's Avatar
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    Re: Still Cloudy -- Kids Ready to Move Out

    I would start by maybe adding a touch more CYA to bring it up to a 30ppm level. This should help cut down some of the chlorine loss during the hot days. After you finish shocking bring it up again to about 40 to save even more. It looks like you're losing about 1.5 FC's overnight....so you could be fighting some algae. Keep shocking at this point. You also may want to try and add some DE into the sand to help filter out the smallest bits that are floating around in the pool. You're doing everything correct with your chemical levels....let the filter do it's job now.

    pool-school/add_de_to_a_sand_filter

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    Re: Still Cloudy -- Kids Ready to Move Out

    Thanks for the reply leebo. If my overnight test ever comes out acceptable, I will definitely add the DE.

    I have since brushed and tested:
    8:00 p.m. FC: 10.5 CC: .5 CYA: 30
    I hadn't added any additional bleach since 1:00p.m. And I broke down & let the kids swim earlier (only 105 today) with promises of showers immediately upon exiting the pool--no messing around!

    I added 71oz of bleach. With the cya of 30 the pool calc shows my shock level should be 13. Why is the shock level lower when the CYA level drops?? I know I should know this but having difficulty wrapping my brain around much of anything at this point .

    Will test again about 10:00 p.m. and hopefully wake up to a sparkly pool--can't quit hoping can I.
    BBB Method * 13,700 Gal-16x32x4 Oval AG * Doughboy Power Pak II 1hp Pump * 1900 Media Master Sand Filter *
    *Hot/Sunny/Windy--5,200 Elevation w/ Very Little Rain *

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    Smykowski's Avatar
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    Re: Still Cloudy -- Kids Ready to Move Out

    Quote Originally Posted by FarmGirl14
    Why is the shock level lower when the CYA level drops??
    I'm pretty sure this isn't exactly what happens, but for the sake of understanding it works....Think of CYA as a sunlight shield. It protects FC from breaking down in sunlight. If your CYA is higher, more FC is protected so it can't do its thing, so you need to add more FC to the pool. Conversely, if CYA is lower, not as much FC is "shielded", so you don't need as much FC in the pool for it to do its work.
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
    The most important article on this site - The ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

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    Re: Still Cloudy -- Kids Ready to Move Out

    Okay, so last night I tested at 10:00 with the following results....
    FC: 12 CC: >.5 no additions of bleach

    This morning tested 6:00 a.m.:
    FC: 12.5 CC: 0 no add

    Hooray (I think) I passed the overnight test since the FC actually went up .5. I did wait about 2 hrs after adding my final bleach treatment at 8:00 p.m. last night to test but water still not absolutely clear... still a little too soon to stop the shocking I'm thinking. I will do another overnight test tonight to be sure.

    Had to work today, so dh added 28oz at 10:00 & 2:00 again--He shows absolutely no interest in learning the testing routine . I guess I'm just glad he will pay attention to my texting commands .

    Tested 6:30 p.m.:
    FC: 13.5 CC: >.5 no add

    I picked up some DE at the pool store on my way home. I'm going to wait until a.m. when I can watch the filter better to add it though....will read the proper instructions several times until then.

    We actually got some rain today.... I think about 10 drops-- talk about humid . Actually rec'd about 1/2 a tenth but that's only because the combines finally started on our wheat fields..but we'll take whatever moisture we can get!!
    BBB Method * 13,700 Gal-16x32x4 Oval AG * Doughboy Power Pak II 1hp Pump * 1900 Media Master Sand Filter *
    *Hot/Sunny/Windy--5,200 Elevation w/ Very Little Rain *

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    Re: Still Cloudy -- Kids Ready to Move Out

    What is the current appearance of your water?
    10,000 gallon
    Viking Freeform Fiberglass Inground Pool. FNS Plus DE Filter Pentair Challenger .75hp pump

    NC KANSAS44

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    JesseWV's Avatar
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    Re: Still Cloudy -- Kids Ready to Move Out

    FC can't go up over night unless have another source of chlorine being introduced into the water. If that is the case you probably did not pass the OFCLT. You must remove all tablets/floaters and turn off any SWG during the test.

    There is also the possibility that your testing was in error.

    Quote Originally Posted by FarmGirl14
    Hooray (I think) I passed the overnight test since the FC actually went up .5. I did wait about 2 hrs after adding my final bleach treatment at 8:00 p.m. last night to test but water still not absolutely clear... still a little too soon to stop the shocking I'm thinking. I will do another overnight test tonight to be sure.
    16k gal, 28'x3.5', Vinyl A/G, 1hp Pentair Dynamo 2-speed Pump, Hayward S160T Sand Filter, Intermatic HB800RCL Digital Timer, Intex 8110 SWG, TF-100 Test Kit, SpeedStir Author: Jesse's Graphical Pool Testing Log

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    Re: Still Cloudy -- Kids Ready to Move Out

    Quote Originally Posted by Thinkly
    What is the current appearance of your water?
    It is clear about 2 feet down then cloudy with an ever so slight greenish-white hue. When I brush, I can't quite see my feet.


    Quote Originally Posted by JesseWV
    FC can't go up over night unless have another source of chlorine being introduced into the water. If that is the case you probably did not pass the OFCLT. You must remove all tablets/floaters and turn off any SWG during the test.

    There is also the possibility that your testing was in error.
    I 'm thinking a testing error....I may have counted an extra drop I didn't actually add in my morning test--in a rush before work. I have no other source for chlorine other then bleach & some "shock" packets which I only used one of in the very beginning because I was low on bleach and figured I could use the CYA. I don't have any tabs. I did another test last night and the readings were 16 at 11:00 pm and 6:00 this am 15.5. I will do another test tonight to see what comes up and continue to keep at shock level.

    I did add some DE this a.m. and had to backwash about 2:00 because there was almost no water coming out of the return by that time and psi was up--I was keeping a close eye on it until lunch and between 1:00 & 2:00 is when it went up. After backwashing, I added more DE to replace.
    BBB Method * 13,700 Gal-16x32x4 Oval AG * Doughboy Power Pak II 1hp Pump * 1900 Media Master Sand Filter *
    *Hot/Sunny/Windy--5,200 Elevation w/ Very Little Rain *

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    Re: Still Cloudy -- Kids Ready to Move Out

    Update: Since my last post, I was able to pass the overnight test for two consecutive nights, however, the water was still cloudy.

    I had to go out of town from June 30- through July 2. Before I left, I only brought the FC down to around 7.5 (thinking better to have it a little high). I had added some additional DE on the 29th and added 84oz muriatic acid because my PH was 8.2 and my TA was 410 yes 410 (that's well water for you....my tap water's PH is +8.5). I left the pump on and instructions to have 28 oz bleach added a.m. and p.m both Sat & Sun. Other than adding bleach, the pool wasn't touched all weekend.

    When I returned on Monday afternoon, I was expecting to find a bigger mess because of no brushing/vac or the constant vigil with test kit in hand. Well, believe it or not it was CLEAR! So clear, I could see some dirt, a leaf or two I needed to vacuum up, as well as my daughter's nose plug . Tested with the results of FC 8.5, CC 0, PH 8.2 (again) CYA 40 (I added c.acid sock before I left as well). I did a little dance, got my clothes changed and proceeded to get the vacuum revved up. First time other than the day I opened the pool I could see the very bottom!

    Of course my excitement didn't last for more than 24 hours. While vacuuming, I noticed it had clouded up a bit, not like before, but definitely not crystal clear. By the next morning it was pretty much back to the way it was before I left . I decided to leave the FC at 7.5 and not mess with anything else (still passing overnight test at this point) for a couple of days since we were having company (for swimming of course ) on the 4th and 5th. On the evening of the 5th I added 93 oz of MA to try to get my PH down. Because of all the extra swimmers brought the FC to shock level for 24 hours as my CC result went to up to .5.

    When I tested on 7-7 my results were FC 9.5 CC 0, PH 8.2 but my TA had dropped to 340 (I tested twice ) -- added 78oz MA. On 7-8 I turned the pump off overnight to give it a rest--been running 24/7 for a few weeks. I did an overnight test on 7-9 and had a FC loss of 2ppm, so I brought it back up to shock level at that point. Still lost 1ppm last night, still somewhat cloudy (can see vacuum head but not clearly). Soooooooo after reading some posts on well water and high PH I will now try to get my PH to 7.0 and then raise it with some type of areiation and repeating this process in hopes of getting my TA down. I will continue to shock until I clear the overnight test for 2-3 nights.

    Questions:I know that at shock level the PH doesn't test accurately. Is that the case for the TA as well (I'm sure I read the answer to that at some point but can't remember)?

    Could my high TA be causing the cloudiness (I also have a mineral type crust on the metal part of my ladder that comes off on when I use a scotch pad)? Is it possible to get the TA of well water down to a reasonable level and hence not have my PH high all the time or will I be constantly adding muriatic acid and go ahead a purchase a pallet of the stuff? I have been adding fill water but I wouldn't say large amounts just to replace backwash and some splash-out.

    Test Results 7-11 1:00 P.M.:
    FC: 13.5
    CC: 0
    PH: 8.2 added 119 oz MA
    CYA: 30--have not added any c.acid since 6/28--will address after passing overnight test

    One more thing , I going to add some additional DE in a bit, I haven't since just before I went out of town.

    Thanks for all the great advice you provide to all! This forum/site is wonderful! Juli
    BBB Method * 13,700 Gal-16x32x4 Oval AG * Doughboy Power Pak II 1hp Pump * 1900 Media Master Sand Filter *
    *Hot/Sunny/Windy--5,200 Elevation w/ Very Little Rain *

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