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Thread: A&A Quick Clean in floor system

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    A&A Quick Clean in floor system

    We have an A&A in floor jet cleaning system. It has worked fine for 3 years since pool was built. Now, only the pop ups in the deep end (~20%) are coming on, actually, I think they are staying on all the time the pump is running. Any ideas on what we need to check first to get the other pop up heads to cycle like they used to?

    Thanks,
    Michelle
    "91"

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: A&A Quick Clean in floor system

    Welcome to TFP!
    You need to open up the cleaner valve and check the gears. There may be something jammed in them, the teeth might be worn off, etc. The valve looks similar to the picture below; it's the one with the big yellow sticker at the bottom. Yours may not be flat on top, but it will be about the same size and shape. Feel free to post back (with some pictures if necessary) and we can help you get the exact problem figured out.

    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
    Make each day your masterpiece. - John Wooden

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    Re: A&A Quick Clean in floor system

    Yes, ours looks like that exactly. We'll check tonight. My husband opened it last night, but we weren't sure what to look for or try first.
    "91"

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: A&A Quick Clean in floor system

    You should be able to spin the little flapper on top with your finger and see all the gears move smoothly. With it open, you can see what's going wrong.
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
    Make each day your masterpiece. - John Wooden

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    Re: A&A Quick Clean in floor system

    We took it apart, checked to see the gears were moving freely, and put it back together and it started working again. We really didn't see anything that seemed to be clogging the gears, so not sure what happened. But, it is working again as designed. Thanks for the information. I love the floor cleaning system. My husband was not as convinced, but seeing it NOT work properly for a few days might have changed his mind!
    "91"

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    Re: A&A Quick Clean in floor system

    BTW, do you have a valve to isolate the cleaner valve? When we took the top off ours, it would not stop draining water. We had to move the gears and put it back together as water flowed out (pump was off of course). Could not tell if water was draining from the sand filter, or coming back from the pool. Our idiot pool builder put the cleaner valve lower than grade and no way to isolate it.
    "91"

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    Re: A&A Quick Clean in floor system

    Hello, new user here, and so glad I found this forum! Been surfing around here for the last hour or so just amazed at all the great advice...and finally got around to searching for what I came here for in the first place. lol.

    I have an A&A Low-Profile Tsunami Water Valve Kit, which I believe is the same/similar as that shown in the pic posted by Melt In The Sun above. I had the same issue with the pop-ups suddenly stopping (in the deep end for me as well, though sound like that's just coincidence) in one location and continuing to run. I checked the water valve unit and the impeller was still spinning, but the gears were not rotating. I removed the lid, checked the gears, and they rotated fine by hand. I set the impeller back in place and turned it, which turned the gears no problem. Problem solved I think! I put the lid back on, turn on the pump, and the impeller starts spinning, but the gears still aren't moving...

    So i then take the whole gear unit apart, check the T-valves, they all seem to be functioning properly (no resistance to lift/lower). I reinstall the cam on top of the anti-friction washers, making sure only 1 T-valve is raised and the cam rotates freely and lifts all T-valves in sequence. I reinstall the gear plate on the cam, make sure the stainless steel shims are in place on the center shaft post of the gear plate, then reinstall the impeller. I spin the impeller and the gears spin freely. Eureka!? Nope...i put the lid back on, turn on the pump, and again the impeller starts spinning, but the gears still aren't moving...

    The impeller appears to be "popping up" and becoming dislodged from the gear set as soon as the pump is turned on? Is this an impeller/gears issue, or maybe some kind of "safety" device to prevent the gears from trying to turn? I thought maybe I had an issue with the pop-ups in the zone (deep end) the gears had initially stopped on, but durring the reinstall I changed the open valve to the zone that controls my elevated spa and the pop-ups came up in there (and went down in the deep end) no problem.

    The entire gear set and T-valves are less than 2 years old, as is the actuator lid...the only thing that hasn't been replaced at this point is the body of the unit. The system ran perfect for the past 2 years since the gear/lid replacement.

    Any suggestions/advice greatly appreciated! Thanks!

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: A&A Quick Clean in floor system

    My first thought is that your gears are probably worn out. How much play is there in the gears? They should fit snugly together and snugly around the shaft without rattling around. I had similar symptoms earlier this season and ended up replacing the impeller and gears, which cost around $30.

    Here are a couple pictures I took showing how worn the old gears were...I knew these would come in handy someday!

    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
    Make each day your masterpiece. - John Wooden

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: A&A Quick Clean in floor system

    By the way, even with everything rattling around they still seemed to work when I opened it up and spun them by hand. When I closed it and started the pump, it would work for a little while then jam up again.
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
    Make each day your masterpiece. - John Wooden

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    Re: A&A Quick Clean in floor system

    Update: I figured out the problem. The impeller shaft had completely worn away. See attached photos.

    As mentioned in my previous post, the entire gear kit was replaced 2 years ago. Luckily, I had saved the old gear kit to use for parts if needed. I didn't realize the impeller shaft was worn down to nothing until I compared it with the old impeller shaft, which had virtually no wear. The new impeller was worn down so evenly and completely that it initially appeared to me like like it was supposed to be that way, and I incorrectly assumed the gears were turning on the wide end of the impeller. Turns out the reason the gears would turn when I inserted the impeller and turned it by hand was because the tiny segment of gear on the impeller right by the flat plastic base was catching and turning the gears. As soon as the pump turned on and the water started flowing, the impeller shaft would raise slightly and release the geras and spin freely in the worn area. i inspected the gears that are in contact with the impeller shaft and none of the teeth look to be worn. I inserted my old impeller shaft from the previous gear set and everything works great now.

    So now my question is...what caused the impeller shaft to wear down? I'm concerned because, again, this complete wearing down process happened over the course of only 2 years. The 'old' gear set with the impeller shaft that had virtually no wear was in service for about 6 years. Poor quality plastic in the new impeller shaft?

    One thing I randomly ran across somewhere in this forum earlier today was a suggestion that the water flow entering the valve unit be adjusted so that the pop-ups run for approximately 1 minute per zone. I didn't realize there was an adjustment on the lid of the unit until I read this. I thought the slot was just there to help you get the lid on right and always turned it all the way to 'max' so that all the water entering the unit was driving the impeller. Turns out that only lets the pop-ups run for about 20 seconds per zone. I adjusted the flow down to about the half way point today once I got the system working again, and that allows the pop-ups to run for about 30-40 seconds per zone. Ran out of time today, so I plan to adjust it down some more tomorrow. I'm curious if the max/high water flow, causing the impeller to spin faster, could have played a role in the rapid/excessive wear on the impeller shaft? There have been a few pool guys making system adjustments over the years, and I rarely have need to open the valve kit lid, so it's possible it was set to lower flow for years and only got set to high flow 2 years ago when I installed the new gear set myself.

    Thanks!
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Re: A&A Quick Clean in floor system

    Thanks for the feedback Melt In The Sun! I didn't see your post until after I posted mine. Looks like you nailed it right on the head! Based on the amount of wear on my impeller shaft vs. the old ones you posted, I can't belive my gears spun as long as they did! lol. happy Saturday, and hope you're enjoying that tasty Widmer in the background of your photo.

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    Re: A&A Quick Clean in floor system

    I guess I should also ask...what is a typical lifespan for a gear set? I guess I just assumed it should last around 6 years since that's roughly the life I got out of the original gear set. At least I think. I bought the home in 2008, it (and the pool) was built in 2004, and I was under the assumption the gear set was original. no reason for me to assume that though I guess. Thanks!

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: A&A Quick Clean in floor system

    I think mine was 7 years old. Glad you got it figured out!
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
    Make each day your masterpiece. - John Wooden

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    Re: A&A Quick Clean in floor system

    When reinstalling the lid take notice of its position. It's position determines how long each zone operates before moving to the next zone.
    chiefwej
    Tucson, AZ
    16x36 rectangular (19k) Pebble Tec play pool/spa, Pentair Intelliflo VS 011018, Super II 2hp (spa), Aqua Rite T-15 SWG, Pro Grid 60 DE, Hayward H400 & Heliocol Solar heating, A&A infloor system, fill water w/high CH and TA, 50 ppm borates,TF-100 test kit

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    Re: A&A Quick Clean in floor system

    Quote Originally Posted by Melt In The Sun
    My first thought is that your gears are probably worn out. How much play is there in the gears? They should fit snugly together and snugly around the shaft without rattling around. I had similar symptoms earlier this season and ended up replacing the impeller and gears, which cost around $30.
    Out of curiosity where did you find the impeller and gears? I did some looking and found the impeller but don't see the gears sold separate. I am having similar problem as described (Stuck on zones) and am hoping a inexpensive gear change will do the trick.
    Sundance Optima (2016) - 410 Gallons - Clearview UV

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: A&A Quick Clean in floor system

    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
    Make each day your masterpiece. - John Wooden

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