So you want to add borates to your pool--Why and How

[flyboy320]

Well I just talked to the manufacturer of the product. The chemist says it is a PH neutral product. He says the main component is tetraborate (and I think with some PH buffers....whatever that means).

I just have to look at the tub of the stuff in the store and see if it tells you what the ppm is when you add the recommended amount to the pool.

 

[JasonLion]

If you can figure out what it actually contains, you can use the Pool Calculator to calculate the amount required.

Tetraborate has a large effect on the PH. It is possible that they also added something to bring the PH back down, but that isn't how most of these products work. Essentially all of the PH neutral products use either boric acid alone, or mostly boric acid with just a little tetraborate.

 

[flyboy320]

Tetraborate has a large effect on the PH. It is possible that they also added something to bring the PH back down, but that isn't how most of these products work. Essentially all of the PH neutral products use either boric acid alone, or mostly boric acid with just a little tetraborate.

That's my concern. If it's just tetraborte (which I assume is the same as 20 Mule Team Borax), then I'm better off dollar wise just to by 20 Mule Team Borax as it's about 1/2 the price per pound as the soft touch conditioner. Guess I'll have to march down to the store and read the label in person!

 

[Hurricane Gio]

I am just going to use ProTeam Supreme. Do I follow the Poo cal directions still?

From zero to 50 its say 360oz by weight. No MA will be need correct?

 

[JasonLion]

ProTeam makes two different products. ProTeam Supreme is sodium tetraborate pentahydrate, which raises the PH dramatically. ProTeam Supreme Plus is mostly boric acid with just a little sodium tetraborate pentahydrate to balance the PH, which is PH neutral.

In the Pool Calculator:
If you are using ProTeam Supreme, select "tetraborate pentahydrate".
If you are using ProTeam Supreme Plus, select "boric acid".

 

[Hurricane Gio]

ProTeam makes two different products. ProTeam Supreme is sodium tetraborate pentahydrate, which raises the PH dramatically. ProTeam Supreme Plus is mostly boric acid with just a little sodium tetraborate pentahydrate to balance the PH, which is PH neutral.

In the Pool Calculator:
If you are using ProTeam Supreme, select "tetraborate pentahydrate".
If you are using ProTeam Supreme Plus, select "boric acid".

Supreme Plus, thanks

 

[tmpfeifer]

Hi. This is my second season as a pool owner and TroubleFreePool follower. I'm preparing to take the borate plunge. My question has to to with the acid... In the pool calculator, when there is a need to lower pH it lists amounts of either Muriatic acid or dry acid. But both the calculator and this how to article only note Muriatic acid for the boratization process. Is this intentional? Is it ok to use dry acid as the balance to the Borax or is Muriatic acid the only option for this process? Thanks for all your wonderful guidance!!!!

 

[JasonLion]

Muriatic acid is strongly recommended, but dry acid will work. Dry acid contains sulfates. At some very high sulfate level there can be damage to SWG cells and plaster. We don't know the exact sulfate level where damage starts to occur other than that is is rather high. Just to be on the safe side it seems best to use muriatic acid, which does not contain sulfates.

Also, muriatic acid is much less expensive than dry acid. In the quantities required, that can start to be significant.

 

[ac130loadmaster]

Holy Cow! It works! My water has a sparkle so bright, especially when the sun hits it.

Here is my water balance:

TC = 5
FC = 5
pH = 7.5
CYA = 22
CH = 255
Iron/Copper = 0
TA = 110
Borate = 50
Temp = 72

All I can say is thanks to this website and the people that give awesome advice, my pool is looking better than it has in years!

Thanks everyone!

 

[kpromero]

Added Borax and MA just like calculator said on Wednesday and tested water this morning.
Temp. 88
Saturation Index -0.2
CYA 39
TC 7
FC 7
PH 7.3
TA 93
Total Hardness 222
SALT 3300
Borates 53

Also ordered kit on Thursday and they just dropped off.

 

[Melt In The Sun]

So, why only 50 ppm borates? Wouldn't using 150 ppm for example result in more of the same benefits?

 

[JasonLion]

Adding more doesn't really get you anything and it makes the water significantly less safe for pets.

 

[Lowertc]

How do you test for borates?

I would like to add to both my Pool and Stand alone Hot Tub!

I have added about 2 boxed of Borax of the past week to raise PH in the pool.. Should I use the pool calc and start at 0 for the pool then minus 2 boxes from what i am told to add?... Might do 1/2 this week and the other 1/2 later.

 

[chem geek]

Borate Test Strips. For the Pool Calculator, just calculate what the borates level would be with what you added (put in your pool size and look near the bottom for the effects of adding chemicals) and use that as your starting number and then put in the goal/target that you want.

 

[Lowertc]

Thanks Chem Geek 2 boxes put me at borates of 8... We have the same pool size. how would I calculate dry acid in place of muriatic acid? Pool calc said 31.45% muriatic. Is adding a simple process?

 

[chem geek]

The Pool Calculator lets you choose between different strengths of Muriatic Acid and also shows you dry acid on the next line if you look at the pH adjustment section so you can play with that pH Goal to get the Muriatic Acid to what it told you for Borates and then read off the dry acid amount (it'll be around 89% of the volume of the full-strength 31.45% Muriatic Acid). It is better to use Muriatic Acid since it does not add to sulfates, though it is nasty with its fumes. You can get half-strength (15%) that fumes less -- just make sure you get it for half the price of full-strength.

With acid, you want to slowly pour it over a return flow in the deep end with the pump running and then lightly brush the side and bottom of the pool to ensure thorough mixing.

 

[icfbuild]

I just took the plunge. I went online and purchased my borate strips and received those today. So I added my borax and acid, alternating back in forth in small quantities, scrubbing the sides to mix, until I reached the Pool Calculator recommended amounts. I have a small pool (signature) so it didn't take a lot. I will post results later. Let's hope it's good.
With my pump it shouldn't take long for all the water to circulate through.

 

[icfbuild]

I did it. I was a little nervous, but did it anyway. I was amazed at the clarity and the silkiness of the water. My wife loves it.

 

[busbeepbeep]

I just borated the pool today. 12 boxes of borax and 3.5 gallons on muriatic acid. The supplies cost ~ $60.

40lbs of boric acid would have been ~$90. But if I went that route, I wouldn't have gotten all those strange looks buying 12 boxes of Borax at Target.

Almost as fun as having 24 gallons of bleach and 13lbs of baking soda in my cart at Sam's Club last weekend.

I hoping I see positive results as described by others.


Test Results before Borates:

FC 3.5
CC 0
TA 60
PH 7.5
CH 550
CYA 30

I added 32 oz of baking soda a few hours before I did the borax/acid which should have gotten me to TA 70.

 

[ThePaul]

Just posting this in case someone else has the same issue (lapse of inteligence) that I did.

I followed the sticky to a tee. It was great because the example was even for my size pool. For a day after adding the Borax I could not figure out why my Ph was off the charts. Keep adding acid, adding acid, adding acid, still 8+ (deep purple) on the test.

Well, I'm sure you know what the issue is. I used 15% muriatic acid. While the sticky doesn't specifically say the strength of the MA to use (unless I missed it), I eventually realized that it references 31% MA.

Perhaps it just goes without saying on this forum that when talking about MA we are talking about 31%. I wish my local Orchard Supply Hardware would follow that standard when stalking the shelves.