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Thread: Just had to drain more than half, because TDS was over 2500

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    Just had to drain more than half, because TDS was over 2500

    I just had to drain more than half my non salt water pool, because TDS was over 2500 (meter was pinned , so sure closer to 3000), was told by 2 different people, one mgr of pool store other owner of pool cleaning business, that adding liquid chlorine will jump TDS to levels like it did mine over 3 yrs, salt salt salt in liquid chlorine,
    Plus Alk, CYA we're off very high, now did this Saturday and Sunday & today chem balanced thanks to their info using Yellow Gone, chlor brite granules and 3" tabs, just running pump/filter to clear out water, but all other levels now normal again, what a freaking pain, been easier to own a ski boat than pool, both suck your wallet dry
    Intex 16' x 48" Ultra Frame Pool 5K Gallons, Intex Krystal Clear Sand Filter Pump 14" Saltwater System Model CS15110, TF-100XL.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Just had to drain more than half, because TDS was over 2

    Welcome to TFP!

    It is unfortunate you listened to those people. TDS is irrelevant, certainly not a reason to drain a pool. There are some levels which can get very high and require dramatic amounts of water replacement, but TDS is not one of them. Also, even if TDS mattered, bleach doesn't affect TDS in any significantly different way. It will increase TDS just a little more, but not enough more to ever notice. But of course that doesn't matter, because TDS doesn't matter.

    If CYA was high, the last thing you should be using is Chlor Brite. Chlor Brite will raise the CYA levels very very quickly. We also recommend avoiding Yellow Gone, as it is prone to causing it's own problems.

    I recommend you do some reading in Pool School. There is all kinds of handy information there that can save you a great deal of money. Also, if you post a complete set of levels we would be happy to review them for you and make some recommendations.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Just had to drain more than half, because TDS was over 2

    I assure you there is more salt in my pool than you had.
    Built in 1957 44,000 gallon in-ground, Wet Edge Primera Stone in Sky Blue, Intelliflo VF Pump, 600 lb. Pentair Triton II TR-100 Sand Filter, CircuPool RG 60 Plus SWG, TF-100 test kit
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    Re: Just had to drain more than half, because TDS was over 2

    X2 what JasonLion just said.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: Just had to drain more than half, because TDS was over 2

    Sadly you have been pool stored.
    18'x48" AG
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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Just had to drain more than half, because TDS was over 2

    Welcome to tfp, jst81

    I wish you had found us sooner ...as others have mentioned TDS is not a reason to drain a pool...it is really more of a red herring (and I would guess that yellow gone you were sold).

    What problems prompted you to consider the drain/refill?

    Let us know if we can be of any help!
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Just had to drain more than half, because TDS was over 2

    I haven't got a clue what my TDS is. Nor my phosphate level. Nor even my nitrate level.

    But you can toss a quarter in the deep end and I'll tell you from the deck if it's heads or tails.

    Order a TF100 test kit. Read pool School. You can have the pool under your control, maybe not by Fourth of July, but for sure well before August!
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Just had to drain more than half, because TDS was over 2

    With chlorinating liquid or bleach, for every 10 ppm FC it will increase salt levels (and TDS) by 17 ppm. So with 2 ppm FC per day chlorine usage over a 6 month swim season that's an increase of around 600 ppm (100 ppm per month) so after 3 years and with some chlorine used in the winter that can be around 2000 ppm. What the pool store failed to tell you is that Trichlor would still increase the salt though at half that rate, but it would also increase the CYA as well (i.e. salt at 50 ppm per month but CYA at 36 ppm per month) and that is much more problematic (over 200 ppm CYA increase in 6 months).

    Do you have any summer or winter rains that can overflow the pool to dilute it? That's what I do each winter and after 9 years it keeps my TDS between 1000 and 1500 ppm. I agree that higher TDS levels aren't a problem, but over many years if there is NO dilution at all then one could get far higher than the 3000 ppm salt pools where corrosion issues could be of greater concern. Dilution also reduces the level of any organic chemicals that chlorine doesn't completely oxidize and that don't get caught in the filter.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Re: Just had to drain more than half, because TDS was over 2

    I am sure you will be adding PhosFree in the near future. Sincerely, follow the advice on this forum and avoid turning your pool into a chemical soup adding many unecessary products.
    21,100 IG Vinyl
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    Re: Just had to drain more than half, because TDS was over 2

    thanks right now pool readings,. using digital tester
    FC- 4.2- little high, but just added last night chlor brite,
    PH 7.6
    Total Alk- 144-little high
    TDS-810-- should be below 1500- so by draining went from well over 2500 TDS to 810- yeah that works
    CYA- 90- also on high side, but clorbrite raised this,

    not a salt water pool- so TDS needs to be maintained or will throw CYA/ alk levels way off- salty water taste and water was becoming cloudy while actually in pool, before getting in looked clear form above, splashing around and cloudy, now wasn't running filter/pump long enough, 3 hrs a day, now 5 hrs a day see how that works
    if I follow what owner ( whom I've been friends with since 4th grade, 34+ years, we were best man at each others weddings) of pool cleaning company tells me so highly doubt he's stearing me wrong, he's had company for 18 + yrs now- using clor brite only 1-3oz at a time when only needed to raise FC levels not liq chorline, using 3" tabs to maintain FC and clorbrite to increase as needed, he says liq cholrine great for larger pools heavy swimmers, example swim school, high schools, public pools, that these normlly get drained once a yr, so TDS does not matter, for my pool TDS does matter and using any of the mentioned will increase it but less than liq cholrine- as the TDS does not evaporate as H20 does and eventually you have salty mess if using liq chorl as it has higher salt than pucks, as TDS does not filter down, does not go away, but similar to making a good sauce it concentrates, only option is drain more than half way, and for me stop using liq chlorine
    No well water but actually on of the best in Cal supplies we get water from, Heche Heche,

    now at pool store, had told me similar but wanted me to use craxy amounts of other stuff- just trying to boost his sales?, I researched what he told me to buy and only thing I did buy was more clarifer, not Alum or Floc, super start up kit, calc hardness increaser, been told fiberglass pool doesn't need to be overly concerned, plaster pools do need to keep tighter watch, my level was good, plus he was saying how their chemicals are superior to any ones elses, blah blah blah- oh course tabs $25 more than pool supply online

    last yr / this winter just got lazy with pool, tested twice a month, added almost same stuff each time, now paying closer attention, adding in measured amounts, do not want to deal with this again any time soon, didn't cost me too much as I borowed pump, and was "donated" some chems so off to a good start, should be swimming this weekend, water looking very nice and levels will be tested daily for rest of week, but always like hearing ideas, opinions, been reading the pool school

    thanks for all the help, what I nightmare I caused myself, now really paying attention to this

    hopefully only adding clor,, adjusters,, phos free,, clarifer,,algacide as prescribed
    Intex 16' x 48" Ultra Frame Pool 5K Gallons, Intex Krystal Clear Sand Filter Pump 14" Saltwater System Model CS15110, TF-100XL.

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Just had to drain more than half, because TDS was over 2

    You don't need phos free. You don't need algaecide. You don't need clarifier. You don't need to worry about TDS.

    Your buddy may be a nice guy, but he knows nothing about pool chemistry. You are wasting your time and money with useless chemicals and wasted water changes.
    TFP Moderator
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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Just had to drain more than half, because TDS was over 2

    Listen to JohnT. Your friend is just plain wrong.

    Aside from listening to bad advice, the only problem you have at the moment is that you used too much Chlor Brite, which got your CYA level too high, which is going to be a problem. Chlor Brite raises the CYA level very very quickly, which will cause major problems.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Ashbourne's Avatar
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    Re: Just had to drain more than half, because TDS was over 2

    No offense to your friend, or your friendship, but if you continue down the path he's suggesting you will continue to have problems. But that's up to you. Sometimes we have to learn the harder, longer, more expensive way.

    I knew nothing about maintaining a pool (other than it needed chlorine added on a regular basis) and for the first 4 years I was at the mercy of the pool store. And hoo-boy did they drain my wallet. I spent a fortune each year on their chemicals, following their advice to a T, often running in circles (do this to bring this up...oops...now do this to bring it back down...) and never gaining control (or knowledge) over what was going on.

    Since finding TFP three summers ago, I have ONLY had to add CYA (at the beginning of each season), muriatic acid (twice) and bleach (every other day) and my pool is perfectly clear (which it never was before TFP).
    18x36 IG Vinyl, 8.5 deep, 28K, Hayward C4025 SwimClear Filter, Hayward SP2607X10 Super Pump 1HP

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    Re: Just had to drain more than half, because TDS was over 2

    ok so then whats the course I should be going? What your recommendations? besides reading pool school, what do you use to treat pool?
    Intex 16' x 48" Ultra Frame Pool 5K Gallons, Intex Krystal Clear Sand Filter Pump 14" Saltwater System Model CS15110, TF-100XL.

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    steinholder's Avatar
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    Re: Just had to drain more than half, because TDS was over 2

    Once the water is balanced, Liquid Chlorine.
    22'x52" AG Ultra Frame Intex - 12,500 gal (47K liter)
    Manual Liquid Chlorine - 1HP 100# Hayward sand filter
    Lots of sun, trees, pollen & wind - 50ppm Borates
    4nd season grateful TFP fan

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    Re: Just had to drain more than half, because TDS was over 2

    Hey jst81, these people know what they are talking about. No BS here. Since I found this place I have had ZERO trouble with my pool.

    Here are the steps you should follow:
    1) Buy a good test kit. I use the TF-100 as do many people here. You can order it from http://www.tftestkits.net. It will be at your house in 3 days or so.

    2) Read Pool School over and over again. In there you will learn that liquid chlorine/bleach (they are the same thing) is what is recommended to chlorinate your pool. You will learn how to go through the shock process (if you really ever need to.) You will learn the relationship between chlorine and CYA (this is the most important concept). And you will learn how to manage your pH and what effect TA has on your pool. If you have a plaster/gunnite pool, you will learn how to manage your CSI so you don't have any surface issues.

    3) Get familiar with poolcalculator.com. This tool will help you determine all the right dosage of chemicals to add to your pool.

    Then, you are done. Its not hard. An hour or so of reading and studying.

    You will never regret it. I spend three minutes a day on pool maintenance and about 30 bucks a month on bleach. A few more bucks on test reagents spread over the summer months and a negligible amount on muriatic acid. My pool is sickeningly clear.

    And ask questions please!

    Good luck!
    12,000 gallon IG vinyl pool, 1 HP pump, sand filter, TF-100 test kit, Raypak heater. Converted from Bacqa June 2011. Trouble Free ever since.

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    Re: Just had to drain more than half, because TDS was over 2

    thanks for the advie, now if I could get pool calculator to work, I try to enter numbers and nothing?

    Quote Originally Posted by MattB
    Hey jst81, these people know what they are talking about. No BS here. Since I found this place I have had ZERO trouble with my pool.

    Here are the steps you should follow:
    1) Buy a good test kit. I use the TF-100 as do many people here. You can order it from http://www.tftestkits.net. It will be at your house in 3 days or so.

    2) Read Pool School over and over again. In there you will learn that liquid chlorine/bleach (they are the same thing) is what is recommended to chlorinate your pool. You will learn how to go through the shock process (if you really ever need to.) You will learn the relationship between chlorine and CYA (this is the most important concept). And you will learn how to manage your pH and what effect TA has on your pool. If you have a plaster/gunnite pool, you will learn how to manage your CSI so you don't have any surface issues.

    3) Get familiar with poolcalculator.com. This tool will help you determine all the right dosage of chemicals to add to your pool.

    Then, you are done. Its not hard. An hour or so of reading and studying.

    You will never regret it. I spend three minutes a day on pool maintenance and about 30 bucks a month on bleach. A few more bucks on test reagents spread over the summer months. My pool is sickeningly clear.

    And ask questions please!

    Good luck!
    Intex 16' x 48" Ultra Frame Pool 5K Gallons, Intex Krystal Clear Sand Filter Pump 14" Saltwater System Model CS15110, TF-100XL.

  18. Back To Top    #18
    steinholder's Avatar
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    Re: Just had to drain more than half, because TDS was over 2

    Make sure you have entered your gallons at the top. And the little app at the bottom is very useful too!
    22'x52" AG Ultra Frame Intex - 12,500 gal (47K liter)
    Manual Liquid Chlorine - 1HP 100# Hayward sand filter
    Lots of sun, trees, pollen & wind - 50ppm Borates
    4nd season grateful TFP fan

  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Re: Just had to drain more than half, because TDS was over 2

    thanks for the advie, now if I could get pool calculator to work, I try to enter numbers and nothing?
    Make sure you have entered your volume at the top and at the bottom you have put in Suggested Goal Levels from TroubleFreePools and your other relevant information.
    12,000 gallon IG vinyl pool, 1 HP pump, sand filter, TF-100 test kit, Raypak heater. Converted from Bacqa June 2011. Trouble Free ever since.

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    Re: Just had to drain more than half, because TDS was over 2

    What it is worth;

    You can deal with your high CYA level but your pool care will be easier to deal with if you lower your CYA to 50. This means draining roughly 1/2 of your water.

    The secret to maintaining an algae free sanitized pool is following the Chlorine/CYA chart in pool school.
    pool-school/chlorine_cya_chart_shock

    Having one of the recommended test kits in Pool School is also recommended.

    If you take the time to read Pool School you will be more educated on pool care than 95% of pool store employees.

    The only things that I have ever added to my pool are liquid chlorine aka bleach, salt, muriatic acid, CYA aka stabilizer, and borax which is optional. I don't have to worry about raising my pH as my SWG does this, I use muriatic acid to lower the pH.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
    Hayward Aqua Rite T-15 SWCG, Jandy LXi 400k BTU NG heater, 350 sq.ft. of Sun Star solar panels, TF-100 Test Kit, Dolphin s300i Cleaner
    Test Kits . Pool Math . Chlorine/CYA Chart . The SLAM Process

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